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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Cloaks

First post
Author
Ser Name
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-03-22 13:13:48 UTC
We should have cloaks of varying sizes--small, medium, large, extra large.

The tech 1, prototype, and covert ops cloaks would remain but there would be a variant for each size.

Cloaks should also have a massive cap drain thus requiring charges to keep them running, ideally the same cap charges we have in game. Each sized cap charge would correspond to the size of the module--e.g. Cap Booster 800 can be used for XL cloaks. A cloak with full charges would be active for a specific period of time. For example, a full charge would get you an hour of active cloak with the tech 1 version. The cloak skill would increase the duration of the charges by a percentage, say 5% increase per level. The cloak variants would have attributes that would extend the life of the cycle such as increased charge capacity, longer cycle time, faster reload, etc.

Reloading charges would take 60 seconds, forcing the player to actually interact with the game as opposed to just sitting in space for hours on end without doing anything, and allow the opposing player time to track down the cloaked ship.

As long as the cycle times can be long enough--say an hour for a full charge with a tech 1 module with minimum skills--for bomber fleets to coordinate and execute bombing runs, or for black ops gangs to pounce on unsuspecting targets, this change would not have a detrimental affect on covert warfare.

Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#2 - 2014-03-22 13:16:46 UTC
Oh look, its this thread again....

No.
Liam Inkuras
dead.Orbit
#3 - 2014-03-22 14:18:44 UTC
Posting in cloaked nerf cloaking thread.

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone

Ser Name
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-03-22 15:34:37 UTC
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Posting in cloaked nerf cloaking thread.


I'm not sure where I was being subtle about changing cloaking mechanics so let me help you out--cloaking mechanics need changing so that people are not cloaked in space endlessly.
Ser Name
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-03-22 15:35:25 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Oh look, its this thread again....

No.


Thank you for the constructive feedback.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#6 - 2014-03-22 16:08:23 UTC
Nope.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#7 - 2014-03-22 16:13:24 UTC
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Posting in cloaked nerf cloaking thread.


Pretty sure this one decloaked before posting.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#8 - 2014-03-22 16:17:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Corraidhin Farsaidh
Only constructive criticism I can give is 'Don't post Nerf AFK Cloak threads' :D

As I mentioned in a previous thread the only way I would accept cloaked ships being detectable would be when it is active (the pilot commands it to do something) and at least 2 dessies with a specialized detection mod (space sonar :D) to triangulate the position. If the cloaked ship stopped completely it would be undetectable once more


Then if an AFK cloaky is in system and you want to run missions you can bring a couple of friends to hunt the cloaky *if* they become active.

Sweepstake time: I reckon about 33 more messages will be squeezed in before ISD Ezwal plays AFK nerf thread whackamole again.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#9 - 2014-03-22 16:23:53 UTC
This thread comes up on almost a weekly basis. In fact, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a nerf cloaking thread in the first 2 pages on this forum section. Almost every single one of them goes like this:

1. OP posts a post with a new (lol) idea that always boils down to some variation of the following:
- "There's a big meanie who is sitting in my system and not doing anything, but I don't know where he is and I can't ever just go next door. I can't find said meanie and even though I know that he's probably at work and poses no threat at all, I wont do anything in my system that I absolutely can't leave ever because he might not be at work and I might lose a ship. CCP please stop the meanie from being able to do nothing to me because he's probably at work"

2. Thread gets trolled because its been done literally to death. This horse has been beaten so hard and so often that it's little more than a memory of a memory of a red smear on the grass, and yet it STILL WONT DIE! In fact it's been done so many times that this particular horse is now undead; even if it does die, it will still be remembered and parodied.

3. Someone comes along and suggests that AFK cloakers can't hurt you, because they are, by their very definition, AFK. No one ever lost a ship to someone who ISN'T PLAYING THE GAME.

4. Someone else comes along and points out that while the cloaker might be AFK, he might not be, and so we have Schrodinger's Hot Dropper. The cyno pilot who might be AFK... but he might not be as well, and you will only know for sure when he decloaks, points and lights his candle. (Yes, I know this isn't how the cat works)

5. Someone else comes along and suggests that you use bait and setup a TARP. Or have a defence fleet on standby. Heaven forbid you have to actually fight to defend your space.

6. A further person comes along and suggests that the problem isn't cloaking AFK in your system that you can't possibly leave ever, but that you KNOW that the person is AFK in your system... and perhaps local should be removed because free 100% accurate intel is probably not the best thing in the game and if you didn't know that the big meanie was in your system, you wouldn't be worried about leaving the undock/POS.

7. Then another person pokes their head in and complains that local is 100% NEEDED because D-Scan and probing are such bad mechanics, and IF YOU TAKE MY LOCAL AWAY IM QUITTING FOREVER AND NO YOU CAN'T HAVE MY STUFF!

8. Someone asks if they can have 7's stuff.

We end up with another thread which goes on for pages and pages between complains about local, defence fleets, inability to just go next door, people who aren't playing the game but are playing the meta, lots of bickering and in the end nothing gets solved. CCP wont remove cloaking because it would mess with waaay too many things and it creates content (which is a good thing) by removing content (which is a bad thing) but they can't really think of any way to do it without a complete overhaul of the local and scanning systems.

Now that I've had this entire thread's conversation, can we just let it die? Please?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2014-03-22 22:37:16 UTC
Ser Name wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Posting in cloaked nerf cloaking thread.


I'm not sure where I was being subtle about changing cloaking mechanics so let me help you out--cloaking mechanics need changing so that people are not cloaked in space endlessly.



And the fact that you break:

Bombers
Scouting
Blockade Runners
Interdictors
Recons
The very concept of psychological warfare
Running gatecamps
Probing
Hiding
Black Ops
Cloaky Gatecamps
And literally EVERY other use of cloaks

Is entirely irrelevant, right?


Not to mention the fact that the new cloaky ship would be a perma MWD interceptor packing a cyno and one of those fits that requires virtues to probe down, and that you'd be screaming for those to be nerfed too inside of a week...
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#11 - 2014-03-22 23:59:06 UTC
27 more posts for me to win the sweepstake...don't let me down ISD...
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#12 - 2014-03-23 00:03:57 UTC
I don't know if you already did this or not, but type in "cloak" in the search bar and look at the threads that have hundreds if pages worth of discussion on every related subject. Sorry, but your idea is not new. Pretty much every argument and counter argument has been used and gotten us no where.

It's also worth noting almost all those threads are locked because it has become a redundant process. So expect the same soon.
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-03-23 00:11:10 UTC
Ser Name wrote:
Paikis wrote:
Oh look, its this thread again....

No.


Thank you for the constructive feedback.


You want Constructive Feedback?


Your idea is **** like all the "nerf cloacks!!!!!!!!!1111111111" Threads before so.... yeah... please read the previous threads and maybe, just maybe, use your brain.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"

Gigan Amilupar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2014-03-23 00:25:15 UTC
Paikis wrote:
This thread comes up on almost a weekly basis. In fact, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a nerf cloaking thread in the first 2 pages on this forum section. Almost every single one of them goes like this:

1. OP posts a post with a new (lol) idea that always boils down to some variation of the following:
- "There's a big meanie who is sitting in my system and not doing anything, but I don't know where he is and I can't ever just go next door. I can't find said meanie and even though I know that he's probably at work and poses no threat at all, I wont do anything in my system that I absolutely can't leave ever because he might not be at work and I might lose a ship. CCP please stop the meanie from being able to do nothing to me because he's probably at work"

2. Thread gets trolled because its been done literally to death. This horse has been beaten so hard and so often that it's little more than a memory of a memory of a red smear on the grass, and yet it STILL WONT DIE! In fact it's been done so many times that this particular horse is now undead; even if it does die, it will still be remembered and parodied.

3. Someone comes along and suggests that AFK cloakers can't hurt you, because they are, by their very definition, AFK. No one ever lost a ship to someone who ISN'T PLAYING THE GAME.

4. Someone else comes along and points out that while the cloaker might be AFK, he might not be, and so we have Schrodinger's Hot Dropper. The cyno pilot who might be AFK... but he might not be as well, and you will only know for sure when he decloaks, points and lights his candle. (Yes, I know this isn't how the cat works)

5. Someone else comes along and suggests that you use bait and setup a TARP. Or have a defence fleet on standby. Heaven forbid you have to actually fight to defend your space.

6. A further person comes along and suggests that the problem isn't cloaking AFK in your system that you can't possibly leave ever, but that you KNOW that the person is AFK in your system... and perhaps local should be removed because free 100% accurate intel is probably not the best thing in the game and if you didn't know that the big meanie was in your system, you wouldn't be worried about leaving the undock/POS.

7. Then another person pokes their head in and complains that local is 100% NEEDED because D-Scan and probing are such bad mechanics, and IF YOU TAKE MY LOCAL AWAY IM QUITTING FOREVER AND NO YOU CAN'T HAVE MY STUFF!

8. Someone asks if they can have 7's stuff.

We end up with another thread which goes on for pages and pages between complains about local, defence fleets, inability to just go next door, people who aren't playing the game but are playing the meta, lots of bickering and in the end nothing gets solved. CCP wont remove cloaking because it would mess with waaay too many things and it creates content (which is a good thing) by removing content (which is a bad thing) but they can't really think of any way to do it without a complete overhaul of the local and scanning systems.

Now that I've had this entire thread's conversation, can we just let it die? Please?


Nice post, I'm going to link it every time we get one of these threads from now on.
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-03-23 00:27:29 UTC
Good luck with thatm its a lot of work.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"

Ronnie West
Astro Holdings
#16 - 2014-03-23 02:53:46 UTC
There are several problems I have with the risk free cloaking system that we have now, and none of them have to do with AFK cloaking because you're right, it's stupid to be afraid of someone who isnt there.

It Makes You Completely Safe - You should never be completely safe in null sec. In fact I believe stations should be destructible for that very reason

Cloaked Ships Can Effect Fleets - Proponents of risk free cloaking will tell you that cloaked ships cant do anything to you, so they're perfectly justified in being safe. This would be a good argument if it were true, but it isnt. Cloaked ships can still use probes, directional scanners, local, and the overview to obtain fleet composition and location in system. Additionally they can provide warp-ins, safe spots and set up bookmarks, all of which are crucial and all of which are to be had risk free using cloaked ships

Every Cloaked Ship Represents A 250 Man Fleet - With the prevalence of titans and the low cost of bridging, you must assume that every cloaked ship has a titan with a fleet ready to pounce backing it up. If you're not ready to deal with that, then you're left hoping that he doesnt have backup, and hoping isnt a plan, hoping is what you do when a plan fails.

Cloaking Drastically Unbalances 0.0 - #1 and #3 make the parts of 0.0 that are not in jump range of low sec or NPC null sec orders of magnitude better than the parts that are. This also means that coalitions that control large swaths of space are better off because their members can go ratting in the middle of their space without fearing a hot drop. Take the system UJY-HE for example. Every system in jump range of that system is also in goon friendly hands, so you can confidently go ratting in a group of 4-5 knowing that even if he has a cyno he cant hot drop you.

In WH space nobody complains about cloakers, and the proponents of risk free cloaking say this is because there is no local so the cloakers are not ever seen. I disagree, I believe nobody complains about cloakers in WH space because they know they never have to worry about the hot drop. Its actually viable to go ratting because you dont have to go ratting with a 250 man fleet to protect against the hot drop, ratting in groups of 3-4 actually provides you with quite a bit of protection. Lets be honest, when is the last time you remember seeing someone complain about being blown up by a cloaky in a pilgrim? Isnt it always cloaky hot drops that people complain about?

TL;DR
Cloakers are not what people complain about, hot drops are the problem and cloakers are risk free hot drop machines.
ISD Flidais Asagiri
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#17 - 2014-03-24 23:14:14 UTC
Thread is being locked as the topic has been completely beaten to death, and leaving it open will only encourage the trolls.

ISD Flidais Asagiri Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department