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"Minerals I mine are free"

First post
Author
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#1 - 2014-03-21 03:56:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tom Gerard
"Minerals I mine are free".

This statement is the most toxic, horrible thing that any industrialists can hear.

Currently we have a weapon to stave off such stupidity. The ability to reverse their stupidity and put the minerals back on the market at the right price via 100% reprocessing.

There is a 45% nerf to reprocessing, this will nerf the counter to "minerals I mine are free" and will drive t1 hulls to 55% of their current value.

Minerals off the market will cost you 180m to build an abaddon, but "Minerals I mine are free" will sell it to you for 103m. Because that is how much it can be refined for back to the market.


45% reduction in price on all T1 modules, and many meta modules doesn't seem terribly bad.

Now with 100% less Troll.

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#2 - 2014-03-21 04:10:55 UTC
Im sure you meant to put quotation marks around "Minerals I mine are free."

Because as of now...it looks like youre telling industrialists that your post is the most toxic horrible thing they can hear...





Just sayin'. Its already a Tom Gerard thread...That's normally enough, just would hate to see a Tom Gerard thread work against itself....

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#3 - 2014-03-21 04:12:19 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Good Advice


Fixed.

Now with 100% less Troll.

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#4 - 2014-03-21 04:16:40 UTC
MIMAF people are useful idiots if you are consuming the goods they produce, and a serious occupational hazard if you are producing what they produce.

So keep tabs on them, and take advantage.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#5 - 2014-03-21 04:28:31 UTC
2/10 because 2 people bit.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#6 - 2014-03-21 05:01:02 UTC
They are certainly free for me.

Or to be more precise. Once my AFK miner has paid for his month with them, the balance is free.

Mr Epeen Cool
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-03-21 05:34:45 UTC
If people do not understand opportunity cost and want to stupidly sell stuff for less than they could otherwise get by just dumping the minerals at the nearest trade hub, well not much to be done.

Its not just mining. Currently in PI only one of the P4 products currently sells for more than you would get just selling the P2 mats. In fact even if you have P2 planets and need a P4 like Sterile Conduits for your own production lines, you are way better off dumping your own P2 on the market and buying some other fools P4 rather than making your own.

The other amusing one is people that go to all the effort of producing or moving commodities to a remote area where they can sell at most 1 or 2 items a week but might get an Ok profit due to the distance, and dump 50 on the market at Jita prices :D

All this change means is when you buy up the "below cost" dumped produce you need to resell it at a proper price rather than taking the easy way out and reprocessing the lot.
Matalino
#8 - 2014-03-21 06:09:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Matalino
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Its not just mining. Currently in PI only one of the P4 products currently sells for more than you would get just selling the P2 mats. In fact even if you have P2 planets and need a P4 like Sterile Conduits for your own production lines, you are way better off dumping your own P2 on the market and buying some other fools P4 rather than making your own.
Opportunity cost also includes labor shipping items to market. P3's and P4's have a smaller volume than the P2's used to make them. Even if there was more ISK for selling the P2's, the extra labor required to get them to market might not be worth it. Running an PI operation outside of high-sec can increase your profits significantly because of larger harvests, but will also increase your efforts and risks in getting items to market. With these operations it makes sense to convert to a higher density commodity, even if there is a moderate loss in value. Thus, there are valid reasons for producing P3's and P4's even if the P2's have a theoretically higher selling price.
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#9 - 2014-03-21 06:13:26 UTC
You have zero cost basis in the minerals you mine. If one doesn't mind selling for less than market value that is their perogative. It is a free market. Deal with it.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#10 - 2014-03-21 06:53:30 UTC
Good thing then that you can counter the "free minerals" completely without ever touching the recycling interface.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-03-21 07:06:25 UTC
I can understand gankling mining ships. I can even understand the concern that hisec mining culture contributes to a more banal EVE inter-player interaction.

What I don't understand is thread after thread of this non constructive, vitriolic "I hate these people" threads about miners. Is it not enough for you to play a game? Or do you have nothing better to do than rant about how somebody chooses to play a game? I'm not sure what another human being could have possibly done to elicit that sort of response.

The only thing toxic here is threads like these.

/蘭


Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Blake Gates Heleneto
ScumLord Excavation and Evisceration
Scumlords
#12 - 2014-03-21 07:08:26 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
.... gankling ....


Gankling? That sounds dirrrrty Twisted




But fun!
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#13 - 2014-03-21 07:24:40 UTC
The minerals I mine are free in so much that I won't need to invest ISK into buying them from the market. And I can mine more low end minerals to "exchange" them for the high end minerals I need. So I will run a lower risk in ISK with market fluctuations. Whether or not something is worth producing in the first place is calculated from buying the minerals on the market when setting up the spreadsheet. That process is completely independent from the source of the minerals.

You will never have the sense of achievement from mining all the minerals needed for your own freighter. Delivering the job and hopping into it for the first time has something elated to it. This is mine. I created it. And even if you gank it, I know, I can just build another.
Umbod Myrr
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-03-21 07:36:16 UTC
Tom Gerard wrote:
Currently we have a weapon to stave off such stupidity. The ability to reverse their stupidity and put the minerals back on the market at the right price via 100% reprocessing.

There is a 45% nerf to reprocessing, this will nerf the counter to "minerals I mine are free" and will drive t1 hulls to 55% of their current value.

Minerals off the market will cost you 180m to build an abaddon, but "Minerals I mine are free" will sell it to you for 103m. Because that is how much it can be refined for back to the market.

Why would you need to reprocess anything sold under mineral value? If it bothers you so much buy it and re-list it.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2014-03-21 08:36:02 UTC
Nothing wrong with stupid people, without them, and their hard work, how would anyone get rich?

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#16 - 2014-03-21 09:02:01 UTC
Blake Gates Heleneto wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
.... gankling ....


Gankling? That sounds dirrrrty Twisted




But fun!

Very fun! Big smile

...

Felicity Love
Doomheim
#17 - 2014-03-21 09:52:07 UTC
Tom Gerard wrote:
"Minerals I mine are free".



Except when someone is dumb enough to leave them in a can to be stolen... then they are free...and so are the tears.

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Felicity Love
Doomheim
#18 - 2014-03-21 09:53:43 UTC
Blake Gates Heleneto wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
.... gankling ....


Gankling? That sounds dirrrrty Twisted

But fun!


Is that like Twerking ? Shocked

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Ralen Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-03-21 10:41:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralen Zateki
Shizuken wrote:
You have zero cost basis in the minerals you mine. If one doesn't mind selling for less than market value that is their perogative. It is a free market. Deal with it.



I just love obtuse statements like this.

Cost basis is primarily used to determine capital gain so that the IRS can determine how much to tax you. From a business standpoint it's a lousy way to look at ROI... aside from manipulating your balance sheet to report lower gains for lower taxes.

Most things in life are not as complicated as tax law, thank God. Business is pretty simple. The time you spend mining minerals is worth something. The minerals are worth something. The time you spend mining minerals vs. doing something more lucrative is worth something.... the only real point in investing in business is to generate a ROI that is more robust than sticking your money in a mayonnaise jar and burying it in the back yard for a rainy day errr... savings account.

Most businesses fail because they simply don't know how to mark up their product. In EVE, your 'business' can't fail. No one is coming to repossess your assets. All that can really happen to you is you spend a lot of time grinding to get peanuts in return and you represent a nuisance in the market to those who actually understand how to calculate a value for their time, effort, and value of capital and balance that against a price point on the market.

To somehow imply that "zero cost basis" and "perogative" are a justification or replacement for "ignorance" is flat out wrong. Strictly speaking "the minerals I mine are free" is an unlightened - or for those less sensitive - ignorant point of view.
Ralen Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2014-03-21 10:46:55 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
The minerals I mine are free in so much that I won't need to invest ISK into buying them from the market. And I can mine more low end minerals to "exchange" them for the high end minerals I need. So I will run a lower risk in ISK with market fluctuations. Whether or not something is worth producing in the first place is calculated from buying the minerals on the market when setting up the spreadsheet. That process is completely independent from the source of the minerals.

You will never have the sense of achievement from mining all the minerals needed for your own freighter. Delivering the job and hopping into it for the first time has something elated to it. This is mine. I created it. And even if you gank it, I know, I can just build another.



The minerals you mine aren't free... no matter how you look at it. And this "exchange" you are talking about, without demonstrating a value for the time spent, capital required, and conversion rate of one commodity to another is likely a speculative venture that isn't at all lucrative.

I suspect based on "sense of achievement" you are confusing two things: 1.) performing a trade for profit and 2.) performing a trade for an altruisitc sense of achievement.

I prefer to do both, but profit comes first as it's the most powerful instrument for furthering any altruistic endeavor.
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