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Upgrading from ragtag shield pvp gang, into, armor T3/HAC pvp gang
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VegasMirage
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#21 - 2011-11-30 00:43:54 UTC
Dradius Calvantia wrote:
Lol

The God Squad recently came to Syndicate thinking the exact same thing the OP was apparently. They lost 9 bill in logi/T3s to our arty cane fleet which was half their size (flying with no logi.)

Pretty EFT numbers does not an effective fleet make.

Edit: As a more serious answer; besides the points mentioned already, I suspect that FCs use skirmish fleets more than AHACs or other brawling fleets because they are simply more fun. Orbiting your logi and calling primaries alphabetically gets old pretty quick. Also, it is much more feasible for a skirmish fleet to punch up and take advantage of a larger hostiles fleets mistakes. The results can be pretty lols worthy..


I've seen your fleets and you roll out at least 50 pilots, come on man have you EVER been out numbered?

no more games... it's real this time!!!
Sevena Black
The Black Redemption
#22 - 2011-11-30 09:09:56 UTC
Reason is very simple;

If you want a fleet, you need numbers. More people will undock in a shield bc (drake or cane) because more more people can fly them. Combine that with the low cost as already mentioned and you have your answer.
Addrake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2011-11-30 10:19:25 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Shield fleets are used because, guess what, quite a lot of people make the mistake of being Caldari. Its just a fact.

Nano drakes are as good as it gets for shield fleets, with good mobility, naturally regenerating passive buffer tank, long range DPS. Its like an AHAC gang rolled into one ship, for a quarter the price.

Shield tanking buffer fits (eg, nanocanes, drakes with BC's instead of carebear fits, buffer Cyclones) provide superior DPS to AHACs, for a fraction of the cost and training time.

Don't get me wrong, you will not find an effective shield HAC gang composed of Vagas, Cerbs, Eagles Munnins and shield Zealots backed by logi, which has the same brawling endurance as a AHAC AB fleet. You simply cannot get enough resists cheap enough to cover the EM hole, provide buffer, and point and MWD. There's a lot of stuff you need to pack in and not that many midslots, which is why AHACs wirk well. Plus the sig radius is a downside, as well.

The other thing to point out is that, right now, it is easier to beef up a Guardian pair or group to 100K EHP with faction gear than it is to try that with Basi's (the equivalent shield logi). This is because, for instance, faction invuls are 400M and faction EANM's 40-60M; armour resists in T2 ships are higher, base and more uniform. Viable faction shield RR modules are nonexistant and the CPU drain is ridonkulous. Couple this with sig bloom when you do shield tank your Basi and your tank is inherently weaker, meaning your logi chain is weaker than a Guardian chain.

This is why you don't see faction fitted shield logis and why shield logi pairs fold a lot faster than Guardians. hence, a shield HAC gang is better done as Drake blob, or arty cane blob, backed by scimis.

I'm not complaining, mind you, about the state of play of shield vs armour logi. Properly deployed and managed, a shield logi can really tip the balance.


I have to agree with this guy, I mean wtf would fly Muninns, that **** would just be ********.
Laechyd Eldgorn
Avanto
Hole Control
#24 - 2011-12-03 09:57:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Laechyd Eldgorn
Cillet Baang Scott wrote:
Why is it soo many people choose shield as a basis for a pvp fleet? Then have any old fleet setup, usually drakes, canes and useless **** like eagles.

Carebearing is partly to blame I suppose. But why do so many FCs totally ignore the advantages of having a uniform, low sig, fast and high dps fleet?. Is it because they lack confidenece to bring out the big guns? pride and safety? or simply because they are not aware of the advantages ships like proteus, armor loki and zealots can give to a fleet?,.

I mean all you have to do, is get on sisi, armor tank your watever, bung in some slaves, have a few guardians and a single damnation booster to see how beneficial an armor T3/HAC fleet gang can be. Especially when all the advantages of agility and speed a shield gang can offer is squandered by slow aligning ships like drakes and maelstroms.

Hopefully with hybrids getting a serious buff, people might venture out of their caldari caccoons and step into a blaster proteus or something. This would be awesome, expecially for all the new alliances coming off the back of dreadnaught buff/supercap nerf.


1. Shield repairs automatically without local rep. Even though armor tanks often can easily fit local rep it's still easier to just have shield buffer.
2. CYNOSURAL FIELDS. For any smaller gang these instant cynos out of baitships are real problem. Even though with some brain and ship scanner you can avoid them to some extent you still need faster ships which again generally means shield tanked ships to run from cynobaits. And you will run into these cynobaits very often if you undock and get out of hi sec.
3. Range and speed = tank. Generally in any situtation it is better to keep range on target so you can just escape if things look bad. Armor tank and point blank range doesn't suit for skirmish warfare.

It has most definetly nothing to do with blasters or hybrid oomphs it's about being able to escape. Cynosural field delay would help something since with proper scouting you could try to ensure you're not ****** at first sighting of enemy, even though it's not the whole problem. Winmatars currently have totally imbalanced speed and other ship stats compared to even other shield tanked ships so don't go wondering too much.

edit: also by nature skirmish/guerrilla whatever warfare means that you avoid ANY contact with enemy fire and run if you encounter any. When you start from that you'll get the whole point why you don't go on blaster range whatever in skirmish warfare. It's about striking hard and running away.
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2011-12-03 15:08:11 UTC
Armor fleets do gate-camps well, from what I've seen. They're slower, have better tracking and tackle, have more access to logistics, and are tougher. Extra mids means more Sebos and tracking links. Sounds like a recipe for holding and controlling choke points to me.

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
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