Ships & Modules

Here is my fit so far :



I used to fly a HAM tengu long ago, but nearly lost it a few times due to its abysmal job of killing fast webbing frigs
(What I wouldn't give for at least a 15m3 drone bay!). Now that skills lower explosion radius and increase explosion velocity I was going to give it another go. I figure if I start the room with javelins loaded I can quickly take car of the frigs first then switch to rage and mop up everything else. Which would help me more though? Webs or target painters? Or one of each? Or different rigs maybe?

Yeah what Bertrand said, although I think he means FN (Federation Navy) web rather than RF web (which I don't think exists IIRC) for the 60% web.

Personally I would go with 2 projection rigs, 1 rigor, 2CN BCS + 2 T2 BCS, Pithi B-Type Small (A-Type is a waste and is making you a gank magnet, which you already are), 1 PWNAGE TP (meta4) and 1 FN Web and Republic Fleet AB. Also there's no point using faction hardeners unless you're short on CPU.

You'll end up with something like this:

[Tengu, Unnamed loadout]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir

This will perform much better than your current fit mainly because of the additional range, and is also much much less of a gank target which is very important because the Tengus EHP is dysmal and you can easily be vollied by just a couple of Tornados. You shouldn't have any problems with webbing frigs as I've run a similar fit to this for a long time and never had problems even in the very web heavy missions (Silence the Informant?) as long as you prioritize the webbers and take them down fast. Make sure you're using the right ammo as shooting rage at frigs is fail, and if they are within faction ammo range (they usually are if they are webbing you) you should use faction over Javelin.

This^

Also, cap stable isn't nearly as important as big boost. I personally have always used large boosters on my Tengus.
I have never, ever lost a Tengu because I was out of cap.

Here is what I use currently, its close to what Dato was saying.

[Tengu, Tengudō]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Gistum C-Type 10MN Afterburner
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Pith C-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Pith C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Target Painter

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/69017-Tengud.html



I have found that a DS set really helps. The investment is small (you can buy right now a full set for about 100mil or so), they use less capacitor than T2 modules and provide better resists. Of course, they are not faction but deadspace.

...and also optional, you can perfectly mission in a T2 tengu without problems.

You get more from a T1 Rigor than a T1 flare, because once the explosion radius is under the signature resolution it applies against target velocity; flares do not.

TP shouldn't matter at all as it isn't stacking penalized with explosion-radius reduction. Its merely that 1 full strength flare is better than a 58% strength rigor.

Thanks for clearing up the bit about stacking penalties. As you've said, the formula makes radius a more important factor. But, if there is no penalty for rigors, that means a rigor is always better, without exception. The missile formula checks two values. The ratio of the radii (obviously rigors are better here), and the ratio of the radii and velocities together. Even if an npc is moving faster than the explosion velocity of the missile, reducing the explosion radius further will always be better than increasing explosion velocity by the same amount. Its the same principle that reducing cycle time or activation cost 5% is faster or more efficient than improving the damage or boost amount by 5%.

no rig: (S/E)*(Ve/Vt) = lets call this X
with rigor: (S/0.85E)*(Ve/Vt) = 1.17X
with flare: (S/E)*(1.15Ve/Vt) = 1.15X

Rigors are thus always better.

Batelle, I think there is one exception. a T2 flare as a third rig will do more good than a T1 rigor if the target a velocity that is bigger than the unflared velocity radius. Thats what I was talking about in my previous post.

Here are some quick examples. Have in mind that before rigs, a 3x Rigor setup has an explo vel of 131ms, and a 2xRigor+Flare setup has 157ms.

Dire Pithi Demolisher (elite frigate). Orbit to max velocity.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9/Dante80/bellycancer/14-Mar-1423-45-52_zps336ac116.png

Dire Pithum Abolisher (elite cruiser). Orbit to max velocity.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9/Dante80/bellycancer/14-Mar-1423-45-19_zps9758b34a.png

Guristas Webifier (elite frigate) Orbit to max velocity.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9/Dante80/bellycancer/14-Mar-1423-47-13_zps02706ef9.png

A flare will also do more as a third rig against bigger targets, since they already have a bigger sig radius than your explo radius. The only way to do more damage with a third rigor, would be to also use a web so that the npc orbit range is less than your rage missile explo velocity. And that wont really work for the tough webifiers, since they will still run faster.

Pretty much the same thing applies to BS missioners with Cruise Missiles too. The 2xT2 rigor + T2 flare combo has a long heritage*..C:

*I tend to go for 2 projection rigs in my HAMgu though, so we are just nitpicking here.

A HM Tengu will outperform a HAM Tengu (despite having less DPS) simply because you can start shooting your targets at further ranges without having to close range. This is what I run for a hassle-free mission Tengu:

• Tengu Obfuscation Manifold
• Tengu Supplmental Screening
• Tengu Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
• Tengu Accelerated Ejection Bay
• Tengu Gravitational Capacitor

• 6x Heavy Missile Launcher II
• Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive
• Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
• 2x Gistum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier
• Gistum C-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
• Gistum C-Type Explosive Deflection Amplifier
• Target Painter II

• 2x Ballistic Control System II
• 1x Nanofiber Internal Structure II

• 3x Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

The biggest ISK loss is mission travel time, hence the Gravitational Capacitor (4.88 AU/s). The only "bling" is the Gistum C-Type medium shield booster ($110m) and Gistum C-Type EM ward amplifiers ($55m), and these are mainly to cover the EM hole and give you a cap stable shield boost that can handle almost all DPS. The 10MN MWD is so you can get around quickly or pull distance from any scram frigates if need be. The rigors give you almost 100% damage application against cruisers, and will severely dent any frigates. If you go Faction ballistic controls you can probably fit 3 and drop the nano for more DPS.

Just shy of 42,000 EHP, and since all the shield modules are passive you never have to worry about activating them at gates. It'll take 3-4 Tornados to successfully gank this, and there's just not enough loot to really justify it. At best you come close to replacing the Tornados. At worst, you're out a few hundred million.

No, it will not. The difference in raw damage and damage application is too big, even if you take the projection differences into account.

Also, the loadout you have suggested is incredibly dumb. Here is a breakdown.

1. Supplemental screening in an active shield missioner.
2. obfuscation manifold for a PvE ship.
3. T1 medium rigs for a hull that costs almost 300mil isk bare.
4. T2 target painter instead of meta4 or meta6.
5. A 5 slot shield omni tank with no less than 4 passive amplifiers, resulting in a 200HP/s combined tank under best circumstances.
*6. A meta MWD that eats your cap like candy, resulting in a combined max endurance of 1m45s while also giving you a signature of 1km. When you are not using it, you are hit harder due to a max speed of 250ms.
7. Two damage mods in a PvE ship.

Please refrain from giving fitting advice to anyone in the future.



*MWD can work really well on a tengu, but not with your tank and cap stats.