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Ship to suicide gank a untanked Mackinaw.

Author
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#1 - 2014-03-14 18:06:50 UTC
Is it possible for one Catalyst with eight T2 Neutrons to suicide gank a untanked Mackinaw in a 0.6 system?

PS with max applicable gunnery skills. Smile
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-03-14 18:21:38 UTC
Not if you belong to Basgerin Pirates!

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#3 - 2014-03-14 18:37:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
Is it possible for one Catalyst with eight T2 Neutrons to suicide gank a untanked Mackinaw in a 0.6 system?

PS with max applicable gunnery skills. Smile

Possibly not, if the Mackinaw pilot has decent skills it's probably packing around 14k EHP against blasters, an overheated T2 catalyst with all skills V pushes out around 680 DPS (no implants) with Void and the Concord response time in a 0.6 is around 14 seconds, unless they've been pre-prepped.

Assuming 680 DPS Concord will roll up once you're about 2/3 of the way into ganking the Mackinaw, my advice, pre-prep concord, take a friend or hope that the Mackinaw pilot has pretty bad skills.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Spine Ripper
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#4 - 2014-03-14 18:50:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Spine Ripper
Answer: yes

https://zkillboard.com/detail/35385469/

To be honest, I thought I was ganking a Retriever. The fellow docked up his Ret and switched into his Mack while I thought he was just unloading ore.

When I dropped on him, locked and F1'd I remember distinctly thinking I had made a big mistake. Then he blew up.

I can't tell you why it was possible. I have 650 dps heated and this was with Light Ion Blaster IIs.

Oh wait. I can't believe I forgot. I had the power of the Code! So that was what did it. I guess.

SR

Edited to say it was in Kino, a .7 system. Cause I are awesome!

All Highsec miners must follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct or be subject to bumping or ganking.  No permit, no mining. www.minerbumping.com

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#5 - 2014-03-14 20:06:57 UTC

It is possible to gank an untanked Mack in 0.6 with a t2 fit catalyst, but there is a decent likelihood you'll fail.

I highly encourage you to make sure concord has previously spawned in the system before you make a gank attempt. If concord has not been previously spawned, it will arrive on grid and stop you at about 12 seconds. If anyone has previously spawned concord before you commence your attack, concord will take about 18 seconds to arrive on grid. This gives you the extra few seconds you'll need.

Overheat, use void, don't orbit, get SH-605 and SS-905 implants, be on top of your target before fireing, and hope they aren't a fleet boosting their EHP.



La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-03-14 20:22:41 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
Spine Ripper wrote:

Cause I are awesome!


No Bing-Bada-Jimmy312-whatever.

You just love to hear read and hear yourself boasting again and again!Lol

yakety-yak yakety-yak

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."

Spine Ripper
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#7 - 2014-03-14 20:33:12 UTC
Is it not possible to give a factual answer to a technical question without eliciting tears?

I guess humor is hard to understand, ie, it was a joke.

SR

(awesomesauce)

All Highsec miners must follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct or be subject to bumping or ganking.  No permit, no mining. www.minerbumping.com

Danalee
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-03-14 20:44:57 UTC
Spine Ripper wrote:
Is it not possible to give a factual answer to a technical question without eliciting tears?

I guess humor is hard to understand, ie, it was a joke.

SR

(awesomesauce)


Take the tears as a bonus, you've earned it fighting for a better hisec.
From all the people who like and actually play EVE, thanks!

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Taal Khurin
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-03-14 22:11:49 UTC
Spine Ripper wrote:


Mining normal ore with ice harvester upgrades like a boss!
Dsparil Mal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-03-15 03:38:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Dsparil Mal
Cpu implant if you can't fit:


3 mag field stabs tech ii
Tech ii blasters
Two burst aerators
J5 scram


Gunnery skills to 4 at least and have at it

Check my kb on eve - kill for one of my implant pods. Should be cpu surgical strike and hybrid dps. Cheap as hell implants. Like 5 mil total.


And if you look on my kb i have a few 0.6 mack solo kills as testament that you can kill them quite easily.

Erotica 1 for CSM 9!

Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#11 - 2014-03-15 15:13:32 UTC
Thanks for the fitting advice Dsparil. I usually like to fit a Prototype Sensor Booster module as well. I will have to do some more fiddling about. You have indeed taken down some Mackinaws in 0.6 systems so it appears dependent on tank fitted to the Mackinaw and as long as they don't have 'shield harmonizing' from fleet bonuses then it should be possible. Smile
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
#12 - 2014-03-15 21:27:49 UTC
Spine Ripper wrote:
Answer: yes

https://zkillboard.com/detail/35385469/

To be honest, I thought I was ganking a Retriever. The fellow docked up his Ret and switched into his Mack while I thought he was just unloading ore.

When I dropped on him, locked and F1'd I remember distinctly thinking I had made a big mistake. Then he blew up.

I can't tell you why it was possible. I have 650 dps heated and this was with Light Ion Blaster IIs.

Oh wait. I can't believe I forgot. I had the power of the Code! So that was what did it. I guess.

SR

Edited to say it was in Kino, a .7 system. Cause I are awesome!

This guy was a fail miner.... Why else would he run 3 T2 ice harvester upgrade units with 2 strip miner 1's.. He probably didn't have many support skills trained either.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

Winchester Steele
#13 - 2014-03-15 22:18:13 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
Spine Ripper wrote:

Cause I are awesome!


No Bing-Bada-Jimmy312-whatever.

You just love to hear read and hear yourself boasting again and again!Lol

yakety-yak yakety-yak



Actually we love Bing Bangboom.

Not only is he one of the greatest heroes of the Order, but also a damn fine content creator. More than the likes of you will ever do for this game, that's for sure.

So you just watch your filthy carebear mouth when addressing your betters.

...

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#14 - 2014-03-15 22:41:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
The answer is yes, conditional upon CONCORD having been pre pulled in system at any location exceeding 150 km from both ganker and gankee.

Pre pulling involves a gank attempt having occurred in system since the last downtime.

It's fairly tight, so with the Mack having off grid boosters and/or perfect shield skills (both very rare) you may fail.

The correct fit to use is 8 LNB2s, 3 t2 magstabs, one of each hybrid rig and two sensor boosters (cheap meta). Void ammo. Scan res scripts. 0.5 you would get the pod, 0.6 you won't.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#15 - 2014-03-15 22:43:18 UTC
Or if you want to be certain, up ship to a Vexor.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Dsparil Mal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-03-16 01:28:33 UTC
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
Thanks for the fitting advice Dsparil. I usually like to fit a Prototype Sensor Booster module as well. I will have to do some more fiddling about. You have indeed taken down some Mackinaws in 0.6 systems so it appears dependent on tank fitted to the Mackinaw and as long as they don't have 'shield harmonizing' from fleet bonuses then it should be possible. Smile



Right now for me it's:

Gallente Destroyer 4
Gunnery 5
Motion Prediction 5
Rapid Firing 4
Sharpshooter 5
Small Blaster 4
Surgical Strike 4
Trajectory Analysis 4


all tech II fit and just train up around cpu, capacitor and powergrid to meet your needs. Right now I got goofy and decided to get the Surgical Strike 3 implant. Going to see how that works out. 20+ mil worth of implants but whatever, I'm rolling in iskies. Twisted

Erotica 1 for CSM 9!

Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#17 - 2014-03-16 09:27:03 UTC
Spine Ripper wrote:
Answer: yes

https://zkillboard.com/detail/35385469/

To be honest, I thought I was ganking a Retriever. The fellow docked up his Ret and switched into his Mack while I thought he was just unloading ore.

When I dropped on him, locked and F1'd I remember distinctly thinking I had made a big mistake. Then he blew up.

I can't tell you why it was possible. I have 650 dps heated and this was with Light Ion Blaster IIs.

Oh wait. I can't believe I forgot. I had the power of the Code! So that was what did it. I guess.

SR

Edited to say it was in Kino, a .7 system. Cause I are awesome!


Not wishing to discredit you but doesn't the killmail you linked say that a Retriever was destroyed and not a Mackinaw?
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#18 - 2014-03-16 09:42:24 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
The answer is yes, conditional upon CONCORD having been pre pulled in system at any location exceeding 150 km from both ganker and gankee.

Pre pulling involves a gank attempt having occurred in system since the last downtime.

It's fairly tight, so with the Mack having off grid boosters and/or perfect shield skills (both very rare) you may fail.

The correct fit to use is 8 LNB2s, 3 t2 magstabs, one of each hybrid rig and two sensor boosters (cheap meta). Void ammo. Scan res scripts. 0.5 you would get the pod, 0.6 you won't.


Very interesting Sabriz. As always you are the fountain of knowledge. A few questions though still.

1) How do you judge if you are 150km from the previous gank site?

2) If there were CONCORD ships just inside the system at one of the jump gates (As there often is for some unknown reason.) would that be sufficient to cover this precondition?

3) One of each hybrid rig would mean 1x Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I & 1x Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I I presume? Would two Burst Aerator rigs not be better?

Two sensor boosters would make lock-on virtually instantaneous I presume. I would usually fit a warp scrambler plus sensor booster but targets are afk ISBoxer so I think it would still work.

I don't want to take down pods as I wish to make the most use of my security status. Using a Vexor would involve quite a bit of training to get cruisers & medium T2 guns which I don't have any skill in currently. Sad
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#19 - 2014-03-16 09:48:58 UTC
Additional off-OP question:

The scenario: A Hulk in an 0.6 system with T1 shield extender rigs & I think two small shield extenders in the mid slots. No extra resistance hardening and no additional bonus to resistance from a shield harmonizing link.

Would a T2 fit catalyst be able to destroy this in a 0.6 system? Smile
Alyth Nerun
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#20 - 2014-03-16 19:58:58 UTC
Hi Bethan

I will try to tell you how I usually try to find out if I can kill the target with my gank alt.

* CONCORD response time *

There is a very useful post on Tipas blog about the response time:
http://blog.beyondreality.se/TTK-CONCORD

So for a 0.6 your would have 14s +6s if CONCORD is prespawned. To make sure CONCORD is prespawned you can just shoot a customs office in a noob ship. If there is more than one system you like to gank in you can prep them within the same criminal timer. Simply go to this system, dock and undock with the noob ship. CONCORD will spawn and destroy it.

After a gank I usually dock in a local station and undock in the noob ship to draw CONCORD out of the belt again.

* Damage calculation *

Use a program like PYFA or EFT to model your ship including your skills and implants and the enemy ship with all on level 5.

When you try to calculate the damage of your ship, find out what rate of fire you have. Then calculate the amount of volleys you will be able to dish out until CONCORD arrives. Multiply this with your overheated volley damage and you know how much damage you can do.

For the enemy ship make sure you set the damage pattern to your ammo (usually void). Since your catalyst will only do thermal and kinetic damage you can ignore tank mods which do not affect this types of damage. Model the rest and check if the EHP is lower than your damage.

With time you will develop some intuition and don't need to calculate the exact values anymore except if you encounter some super exotic setup.

The minerbumping site has more details about the whole process. Make sure you check that out as well:
http://www.minerbumping.com/p/blog-page.html
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