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Can we get the option to remap our skill points?

First post First post
Author
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#121 - 2014-03-13 23:54:34 UTC
My ex had a druid in WoW.

She remapped the SP over 30 frikkin' times.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

dadar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2014-03-14 00:06:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
This game has no "try before you buy" regarding ships.

Someone may choose to want to fly a Golem. Why a golem? I don't know, this is just an example. Maybe whoever the guy is decided that a golem looked like it would be fun to fly.
He could find out by getting any other Ravenkind.

With one (very mild) exception, there is nothing in the game that requires a ton of SP that can't be explored using next to no SP at all. Putting more SP into it just makes it the same thing, but with more SP put into it — the core usage patter or gameplay doesn't change. The mild exception is capships, since they require at least some kind of “teamwork” (that can be done on your own) but they're still just ships that use the same mechanics as every other ship in the game.

The mistake people make is that they think they have to train a ton of stuff to try an activity out. They don't. That's just a silly myth born out of the same ignorance that gave birth to the “must train to V to be effective” idiocy.


I am thinking of trying heavy interdictors out can you please point out the low sp way for me to try them out with out training the next 46 days to get into one?
dadar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2014-03-14 00:09:02 UTC  |  Edited by: dadar
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
My ex had a druid in WoW.

She remapped the SP over 30 frikkin' times.


that's impressive considering wow doen't even have sp you can't relate wow's talents even remotely to sp.

now if she was able to switch classes without leveling a new one that would be closer but still way off as you can just level a new toon in wow in couple weeks

some level 5 skills in eve take twice as long as it takes to level one char in wow to max level

and for thos saying sp don't matter your just trolling to keep noobs playing with lies. if sp don't matter corps would not have a min amount to join.

example two pilots flying same ship same mods and same level of piloting skills using same tactics no errors the pilot with the most sp wins

a new pilot with say lvl 4 small hybrids agasint somebody with say lvl 4 small hybrid speclization is already at a 13% dmg disadvantage.

13% dmg is a huge advantage
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#124 - 2014-03-14 00:12:13 UTC
dadar wrote:
I am thinking of trying heavy interdictors out can you please point out the low sp way for me to try them out with out training the next 46 days to get into one?

Oh, that's easy. Buy a PLEX and sit in… oh… just about anything on the Jita undock while spamming “I'm carrying a PLEX” in local. Blink

The speed and cost of your loss should be a good approximation of the HIC experience.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#125 - 2014-03-14 00:38:45 UTC
I do not think I have ever seen a HIC or Interdictor outside null ... ever.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#126 - 2014-03-14 00:58:52 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
I do not think I have ever seen a HIC or Interdictor outside null ... ever.


What? HIC's are the primary tackle in lowsec supercap battles, and remote sebo'd hics as primary tackle in gatecamps has been a thing for quite some time in both low and high (To deal with stabs).
Malrikk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2014-03-14 01:26:31 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Divine Entervention wrote:
This game has no "try before you buy" regarding ships.

Someone may choose to want to fly a Golem. Why a golem? I don't know, this is just an example. Maybe whoever the guy is decided that a golem looked like it would be fun to fly. So he's spent 110 days reaching the point where he can fly a golem. He spends another 90 days training up all the skills necessary to fly it "really well".

To him, the Golem sucks. Having had no 100% accurate way to determine if flying a golem is something he would enjoy, because he's told to "make a plan", he made one and it turned out to be something he didn't enjoy.

Now he's stuck with a character in a game he spent 200 days working towards something he doesn't enjoy. He knows there's a possibility that he could be enjoying another aspect of the game that takes 200 days to enter, but he can't. He's screwed.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.



Much like religion or politics, you will never convince them otherwise.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#128 - 2014-03-14 01:49:46 UTC
dadar wrote:
a new pilot with say lvl 4 small hybrids agasint somebody with say lvl 4 small hybrid speclization is already at a 13% dmg disadvantage.

13% dmg is a huge advantage

It's a lot smaller than the advantage the new player has if he puts those small-hybrid SP into electronic warfare… Twisted
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#129 - 2014-03-14 02:14:31 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
I do not think I have ever seen a HIC or Interdictor outside null ... ever.

Interdictors (read: the Sabre) actually used to be quite common in low and sometimes high because destroyers had a hull "bonus" of 50% reduction in weapon damage. Interdictors never had that limitation.

Now T1 destroyers overshadow interdictors in cost effectiveness for combat outside of nullsec. They're a truly niche ship but one that serves a very important and significant role.

HICs are useful in lowsec because as previously mentioned, they're the only way to tackle supercaps in lowsec, and they can circumvent any number of warp core stabs on a ship to tackle them.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Sarcasim
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#130 - 2014-03-14 04:05:59 UTC
Tippia wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
I would have to agree with Malrikk here.

It removes the point of having skills to begin with.
LOL what??

What is the purpose of having skills and skill training?

Same purpose as having attributes that can be re-mapped. I hope your not suggesting because something can be re-mapped or reset that it renders it useless?

That would silly to say even by your standards Tippia. (even just for arguments sake)

There are many reasons this may not be a good idea, but to imply resetting or re-map of SP makes skills or skill training useless is not one of them.

I can see both sides of the coin here. Some people would benefit from a SP reset . People who made poor training choices early in their eve history for certain.

Bitter Vets with 10 years training under their belt, not so much.

Either way would be interesting to see.
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#131 - 2014-03-14 04:10:47 UTC
Long version for the answer is ? NOO

Short version for the answer is ? NO
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#132 - 2014-03-14 05:13:32 UTC
dadar wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
My ex had a druid in WoW.

She remapped the SP over 30 frikkin' times.


that's impressive considering wow doen't even have sp you can't relate wow's talents even remotely to sp.

now if she was able to switch classes without leveling a new one that would be closer but still way off as you can just level a new toon in wow in couple weeks

some level 5 skills in eve take twice as long as it takes to level one char in wow to max level

and for thos saying sp don't matter your just trolling to keep noobs playing with lies. if sp don't matter corps would not have a min amount to join.

example two pilots flying same ship same mods and same level of piloting skills using same tactics no errors the pilot with the most sp wins

a new pilot with say lvl 4 small hybrids agasint somebody with say lvl 4 small hybrid speclization is already at a 13% dmg disadvantage.

13% dmg is a huge advantage



I haven't played since late 2007 so I don't even know what anything was called anymore. Rum helps.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2014-03-14 06:01:26 UTC
dadar wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
This game has no "try before you buy" regarding ships.

Someone may choose to want to fly a Golem. Why a golem? I don't know, this is just an example. Maybe whoever the guy is decided that a golem looked like it would be fun to fly.
He could find out by getting any other Ravenkind.

With one (very mild) exception, there is nothing in the game that requires a ton of SP that can't be explored using next to no SP at all. Putting more SP into it just makes it the same thing, but with more SP put into it — the core usage patter or gameplay doesn't change. The mild exception is capships, since they require at least some kind of “teamwork” (that can be done on your own) but they're still just ships that use the same mechanics as every other ship in the game.

The mistake people make is that they think they have to train a ton of stuff to try an activity out. They don't. That's just a silly myth born out of the same ignorance that gave birth to the “must train to V to be effective” idiocy.


I am thinking of trying heavy interdictors out can you please point out the low sp way for me to try them out with out training the next 46 days to get into one?

1. try T1 cruiser (which is base of heavy interdictor of your chose)
2. play with bubbles in 0.0
3. play with interdictor
4. play with heavy-interdictor

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#134 - 2014-03-14 07:01:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Sarcasim wrote:
Same purpose as having attributes that can be re-mapped.
Close, but not quite. There's a crucial difference between attributes and skills: you are not removing you attributes and replacing their effect with something completely different forwards and backwards in history.

If you'll allow some semantic drift for a second, attributes are a mechanism that turn time into SP, whereas skills are effects of that mechanism. Altering the mechanism after the fact does not alter the effect it has already had — only what effect it will have in the future. Altering the effects themselves, however, is akin to turning back time. At that point, the mechanism no longer has any real point because you can go back and get a different, “better”, result.

The entire mechanism is bypassed and the effects themselves become quite meaningless because they're only a result of the moment rather than of the entire decision-making and SP-gathering process that led you to the result.

Quote:
There are many reasons this may not be a good idea, but to imply resetting or re-map of SP makes skills or skill training useless is not one of them.
It's not something I imply — it's something I state as a fact because it is a very obvious result of being able to reverse, alter, and remake decisions you've made in the past. Or, well… to be a bit more pedantic, it doesn't render them useleess — it renders them meaningless because they are infinitely mutable.
Spaeder
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2014-03-14 08:18:16 UTC
No
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#136 - 2014-03-14 11:14:00 UTC
I wear my stupid skill choices as a badge of noob honor. Don't you try to take them away from me!
Jad-bal-jah
Oneiros Logistics
#137 - 2014-03-14 12:36:34 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
We currently receive 2 bonus remaps for each character.
Why have remap at all? I can't change my expertise or IQ/EQ in real life without growing and studying, so why make it possible in game?

Why have a jump clone at all? I cant jump to my body to work which is 509 jumps away. so why make it possible in game?
Sophia Skinner
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#138 - 2014-03-14 12:56:51 UTC
What if using this option also reset your learned skills to your noob character racial default, and you had to repurchase skill books? That could potentially make using your SP reset a costly decision, and could also be a nice ISK sink. This would also remove the abilty to have access to skills you shouldn't have because you no longer have the prereqs.

I'm curious how many people that think the OPs idea is terrible were also against training of multiple characters on the same account, but now think it's fine.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#139 - 2014-03-14 13:16:06 UTC
Sophia Skinner wrote:
What if using this option also reset your learned skills to your noob character racial default, and you had to repurchase skill books?
Still causes all the same game-breaking issues. Money is trivially overcome.
Sarcasim
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#140 - 2014-03-14 13:54:06 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Sarcasim wrote:
Same purpose as having attributes that can be re-mapped.
Close, but not quite. There's a crucial difference between attributes and skills: you are not removing you attributes and replacing their effect with something completely different forwards and backwards in history.

If you'll allow some semantic drift for a second, attributes are a mechanism that turn time into SP, whereas skills are effects of that mechanism. Altering the mechanism after the fact does not alter the effect it has already had — only what effect it will have in the future. Altering the effects themselves, however, is akin to turning back time. At that point, the mechanism no longer has any real point because you can go back and get a different, “better”, result.

The entire mechanism is bypassed and the effects themselves become quite meaningless because they're only a result of the moment rather than of the entire decision-making and SP-gathering process that led you to the result.

Quote:
There are many reasons this may not be a good idea, but to imply resetting or re-map of SP makes skills or skill training useless is not one of them.
It's not something I imply — it's something I state as a fact because it is a very obvious result of being able to reverse, alter, and remake decisions you've made in the past. Or, well… to be a bit more pedantic, it doesn't render them useleess — it renders them meaningless because they are infinitely mutable.


Sorry there is no difference in what you imply or what you state. Both are wrong. Resetting SP would not make them useless or meaningless just because you don’t agree with it or like the suggestion.

It may not be in the best interest of the game to do so, but not for the silly reason you (state).

I have read enough of your post and seen how you conduct yourself on the forums to know that you enjoy arguing and would never admit to being wrong.

I will not become ensnared or entangled in your foolishness. Do not look for me to continue to engage in your Trollish methods.