These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Proposal for a new Rattlesnake Bonus
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kyperion
#1 - 2014-03-11 19:00:02 UTC
I've wanted to try my hand at a Carrier for a long time, and reading how the Gurista faction ships might be rebalanced around fewer, higher damage and hitpoint drones got me thinking....

Gallente bonus:Fighter damage/tracking X%

Caldari bonus: bonus to target painter range/effectiveness by x%

Role bonus: Turn the drone bonus of the Rattlesnake into allowing it to field 1 or 2 fighters, and come up with some malarky that let it only operate fighter drones


...Would give a one of a kind experience, and flavor. Lots of balance issues, but I think itd be worth navigating because of how mindblowingly special a ship like this would be.
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#2 - 2014-03-11 19:08:23 UTC
There would be no OP issues, because fighters are horrifically bad in just about every aspect of their use.

Don't kill my rattlesnake, please :(

Also, they are right in the middle of rebalancing the pirate lineup, they already have plans for it, although they are being tight lipped about it atm.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#3 - 2014-03-11 19:41:36 UTC
fighters are cruiser-sized.

fighters are also terrible at everything

no one that flies a rattlesnake wants this.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#4 - 2014-03-11 19:42:17 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Don't kill my rattlesnake, please :(

Hehe… Lol

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-03-11 22:05:34 UTC
train carriers
install sisi client
play with the carriers cheap and easy on sisi if no desire to be out of empire on the production server.


Also fighters are broken ATM...even carriers follow sentry doctrine.

Well that and its ssdd really. Lauch them, sick them on a target. The allure of carrier ratting is tank, not damage (spec out an a very good BS build and it will have equal if not better applied damage). You can hit a sanctum/haven and tank it solo with a carrier. Solo BS' this would get real painful real quick



Also why the TP bonus? With omnilink, DDA and BCU rattlesnake already has enough must have mods to fit to get some pain out. Why force more mods to maybe make it have even more fitting tradeoffs. Even the mighty golem needs 2 of these to run right. Rattler probably would too (cba to eft-fu the "break" it gets from having 3 rigs instead of 2 to run an extra rigor/flare).

Eepecially considrering its not exaclty running alot of launchers on it. A bonus to an aspect of the missile calc would be better to have. Explosion radius or something like that. Or raw damage or ROF. Since torp rattler doctrine never became a thing to blot out the sun...there are lots of (better) bonuses to swap out range for besides running TP basically.
Kyperion
#6 - 2014-03-12 00:44:45 UTC
Why are fighters so terrible? I would think itd be something like what makes heavy drones unpopular, slow and unable to hit, so maybe a tracking and speed bonus?
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#7 - 2014-03-12 00:55:31 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
Why are fighters so terrible? I would think itd be something like what makes heavy drones unpopular, slow and unable to hit, so maybe a tracking and speed bonus?


slow
slooow
sloooooooow

A max skill 10 fighter (non thanny) carrier does 1k raw damage with a flight of firbolgs. Those drones are slow as molasses, easy to kill, and a flight of 10 of them takes up 50k m3 of space, and they cost 190 million. They have to fly to the target, shoot it till it dies, then slow as molasses fly to the next one and start shooting it.They all die to a few bombs, or someone shooting them for a few seconds.

A Dominix/Ishtar on the other hand does over 750 dps with gardes, instantly, with an optimal of 68Km and a fallof off 13KM with two omnis. And a flight of Gardes is like 7 Mil.

If you like Bouncers, even a non omni Domni get 82.5Km optimal with 42Km of falloff.

Starting to see why they are terrible, and horribly outclassed by sentries?

As a note, a no drone control unit sentry carrier with 3 drone damage amps does more DPS and applies it better than a fighter carrier.
Tulara
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#8 - 2014-03-12 01:01:34 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
I've wanted to try my hand at a Carrier for a long time, and reading how the Gurista faction ships might be rebalanced around fewer, higher damage and hitpoint drones got me thinking....

Gallente bonus:Fighter damage/tracking X%

Caldari bonus: bonus to target painter range/effectiveness by x%

Role bonus: Turn the drone bonus of the Rattlesnake into allowing it to field 1 or 2 fighters, and come up with some malarky that let it only operate fighter drones


...Would give a one of a kind experience, and flavor. Lots of balance issues, but I think itd be worth navigating because of how mindblowingly special a ship like this would be.

Is it... a ******* joke?
Kyperion
#9 - 2014-03-12 04:11:47 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
Why are fighters so terrible? I would think itd be something like what makes heavy drones unpopular, slow and unable to hit, so maybe a tracking and speed bonus?


slow
slooow
sloooooooow

A max skill 10 fighter (non thanny) carrier does 1k raw damage with a flight of firbolgs. Those drones are slow as molasses, easy to kill, and a flight of 10 of them takes up 50k m3 of space, and they cost 190 million. They have to fly to the target, shoot it till it dies, then slow as molasses fly to the next one and start shooting it.They all die to a few bombs, or someone shooting them for a few seconds.

A Dominix/Ishtar on the other hand does over 750 dps with gardes, instantly, with an optimal of 68Km and a fallof off 13KM with two omnis. And a flight of Gardes is like 7 Mil.

If you like Bouncers, even a non omni Domni get 82.5Km optimal with 42Km of falloff.

Starting to see why they are terrible, and horribly outclassed by sentries?

As a note, a no drone control unit sentry carrier with 3 drone damage amps does more DPS and applies it better than a fighter carrier.


So basically they are in the same boat as Heavies. Hopefully this is on CCP's radar. How about Fighter-Bombers are they terribad too?
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#10 - 2014-03-12 04:23:07 UTC
Kyperion wrote:

So basically they are in the same boat as Heavies. Hopefully this is on CCP's radar. How about Fighter-Bombers are they terribad too?


They are quite good at their one purpose of wrecking other capitals at close range. Nobody cares how slow your drones move when they do 12kdps when they get there.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-03-12 04:41:14 UTC
Fighters however can go into warp. So they are able to deal damage remotely from anywhere in a solar system. They are big, heavy and slow because they also have to have all the junk for the pilots.

As for proposed bonus, I don't mind fighters in current state, but what the heck do target painters have to do with caldari? I find the rattler in current configuration does pretty well. Drone damage, missile flight time and you have high speed, long range combat with an awesome combo of range/damage/tank. If we want to replace missile bonus, maybe drone velocity which wouldn't really fit into caldari lore?

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-03-12 05:32:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Just make the drones appear to be one size class bigger. ie: Hobgoblins look like Hammerheads, Hammerheads look like Ogres, and Ogres look like Firbolgs.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."