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High-sec ganking
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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#41 - 2014-03-09 20:15:25 UTC
Matogg wrote:
It's NOT PvP IMO it's plain and simply a cheap shot and an affront on my sense of fair play . It should offend anybody who can tell the difference between right and wrong . Also it alters the entire fabric of the game itself when routes to and from the large hubs like Jita seem to be constantly patrolled by a few people with their own selfish interests at heart and not the interests of this gem of a game we play .


This part here is absolute gold.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#42 - 2014-03-09 20:40:13 UTC
If this guy quits EVE to play SC, I'm going to be awfully tempted to gank him there.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
Matogg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-03-10 06:07:21 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Many very insightful people in this thread have covered most of the relevant points, but there is one other thing I'd like to add.

You say that crime in highsec has taken on the feel of organized crime. Can you tell me why that's a bad thing? This is a game that advertises itself with 'Be the Villain', after all. This is one of the only games that is competitive in this way and it's not by accident. The organized crime you speak of is some of the best content in highsec, to be frank, and I can't see why you would think of it as bad or wrong.


Monk as usural it's a pleasure to read your post and I'd be happy to answer your question . A few years ago minerals were half the price they are today and some like pyerite are much more . A battleship cost around 100,000,000 isk and today it's around 200,000,000 . These are just examples since the whole market in EvE seems to have the same trend . These changes came about with an increase of organized ganks on a major scale making it hard for new players to start out affording good , reasonable ships and mods . One organized gank that comes to mind is "Burn Jita" [it actually had a name] . Now why in EvE would anybody want to scare everybody away from maybe the only place I know of where you can purchase anything your heart desires in the blink of an eye without having to travel all over the place to find it . Now that's a crime against the whole EvE community . Once burned , twice shy they say and it's not the only example . Prices have shown it to be true . Economics work the same way anywhere you go and a few can change everything for everybody .
Remember the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973 ? It affected people all over the globe . The average wage was $5.00 per hour [in my country] and a brand new car cost $3,000 . ...but for a few greedy individuals now that same car cost over $30,000 and the wage has tripled but still , proportionally , it costs more to live now than it did then .
Some have argued that ships and mods are making manufacturers more now and therefore we should be thanking the hi-sec gankers for bringing about this pleasant change . I disagree . In the example above it's seen that we can have more money and be less wealthy than we were before . Does anybody think it's a GOOD thing to make new players as well as the old players have to pay double for their ships and mods ? [and mods aren't even insurable]
Istyn
Freight Club
#44 - 2014-03-10 06:46:45 UTC
Matogg wrote:
and even had to sit through one "tasteless" rap video from a young man who probably dreamed that there was bits of wisdom among all those 4 letter words as he blamed CCP for posting it on U-Tube .


0/10, you made your troll too obvious. :(
Dexxel Farcry
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
#45 - 2014-03-10 07:23:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Dexxel Farcry
Matogg wrote:


Monk as usural it's a pleasure to read your post and I'd be happy to answer your question . A few years ago minerals were half the price they are today and some like pyerite are much more . A battleship cost around 100,000,000 isk and today it's around 200,000,000 . These are just examples since the whole market in EvE seems to have the same trend . These changes came about with an increase of organized ganks on a major scale making it hard for new players to start out affording good , reasonable ships and mods . One organized gank that comes to mind is "Burn Jita" [it actually had a name] . Now why in EvE would anybody want to scare everybody away from maybe the only place I know of where you can purchase anything your heart desires in the blink of an eye without having to travel all over the place to find it . Now that's a crime against the whole EvE community . Once burned , twice shy they say and it's not the only example . Prices have shown it to be true . Economics work the same way anywhere you go and a few can change everything for everybody .
Remember the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973 ? It affected people all over the globe . The average wage was $5.00 per hour [in my country] and a brand new car cost $3,000 . ...but for a few greedy individuals now that same car cost over $30,000 and the wage has tripled but still , proportionally , it costs more to live now than it did then .
Some have argued that ships and mods are making manufacturers more now and therefore we should be thanking the hi-sec gankers for bringing about this pleasant change . I disagree . In the example above it's seen that we can have more money and be less wealthy than we were before . Does anybody think it's a GOOD thing to make new players as well as the old players have to pay double for their ships and mods ? [and mods aren't even insurable]


Listen to me.

You have been lied too. High sec is not safe, it's just the part of town closest to the police station.

You need to run support fleets with your logistics groups when you're hauling your precious freight around. This is not hard to do, and I'm sure you goofballs have a few turds logged on just watching their shiny spaceship spin around in station dock. Put them to use.

Most mining and industrial corps have Corp mining ops, why don't you have corp logistic ops? Fly your cargo when most of New Eden is sleeping. Send scouts out ahead, have some triage RR. Or run multiple hauls in smaller, faster, more agile vessels.

All of this can of course be summarized by simply stating the following....

Take the shrink wrap of your jiggley bits, and play the fracken game.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-03-10 09:26:31 UTC
Matogg wrote:
...A ganker can slide right up next to you in high-sec and you'd never even know they were a threat until it was too late to do anything about it...

... but I don't force my game on gankers...
First, in Highsec I do PI, Industry, trade and hauling. No ganking.

Your belief that you can't do anything about it is wrong. Before you leave station... prepare. Use the proper 'tanked' ship with the proper cargo and be aware. You define the parameters.
Kaea Astridsson
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#47 - 2014-03-10 10:27:08 UTC
AFAIK - the prices on battleship hulls did NOT increase due to more ganks being performed. The minerals required to build the hulls did however increase, just drop by Science and Industry sub-forum and I'm sure you'll find the info.

Get on Comms, or die typing.
Dreadchain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-03-10 10:52:16 UTC
Kaea Astridsson wrote:
AFAIK - the prices on battleship hulls did NOT increase due to more ganks being performed. The minerals required to build the hulls did however increase, just drop by Science and Industry sub-forum and I'm sure you'll find the info.


Not to mention inflation in eve has traditionally been huge. If mineral prices stood static, they would be in terms of purchasing power, cheaper. The number of players has slightly increased, but the number of isk coming into the economy has skyrocketed.

If you compare to PLEX prices, the price of battleships has actually lowered. This is much more visible in the capital 0.0 scene, where the number of capitals being fielded has exploded in the recent years.

Additionally, while low-end minerals have gone more expensive, high-end minerals seem to have had quite the opposite development.

www.minerbumping.com
Thius Taxus Thellere
Blueprint Mania
#49 - 2014-03-10 11:22:03 UTC
Matogg wrote:
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Many very insightful people in this thread have covered most of the relevant points, but there is one other thing I'd like to add.

You say that crime in highsec has taken on the feel of organized crime. Can you tell me why that's a bad thing? This is a game that advertises itself with 'Be the Villain', after all. This is one of the only games that is competitive in this way and it's not by accident. The organized crime you speak of is some of the best content in highsec, to be frank, and I can't see why you would think of it as bad or wrong.


Monk as usural it's a pleasure to read your post and I'd be happy to answer your question . A few years ago minerals were half the price they are today and some like pyerite are much more . A battleship cost around 100,000,000 isk and today it's around 200,000,000 . These are just examples since the whole market in EvE seems to have the same trend . These changes came about with an increase of organized ganks on a major scale making it hard for new players to start out affording good , reasonable ships and mods . One organized gank that comes to mind is "Burn Jita" [it actually had a name] . Now why in EvE would anybody want to scare everybody away from maybe the only place I know of where you can purchase anything your heart desires in the blink of an eye without having to travel all over the place to find it . Now that's a crime against the whole EvE community . Once burned , twice shy they say and it's not the only example . Prices have shown it to be true . Economics work the same way anywhere you go and a few can change everything for everybody .
Remember the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973 ? It affected people all over the globe . The average wage was $5.00 per hour [in my country] and a brand new car cost $3,000 . ...but for a few greedy individuals now that same car cost over $30,000 and the wage has tripled but still , proportionally , it costs more to live now than it did then .
Some have argued that ships and mods are making manufacturers more now and therefore we should be thanking the hi-sec gankers for bringing about this pleasant change . I disagree . In the example above it's seen that we can have more money and be less wealthy than we were before . Does anybody think it's a GOOD thing to make new players as well as the old players have to pay double for their ships and mods ? [and mods aren't even insurable]



Go back to WoW.
Kristopher Rocancourt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2014-03-10 12:50:33 UTC
Matogg wrote:
There are many ways to enjoy EvE Online...mining , manufacturing , missions , ratting , exploration as well as PvPing . It's well known even to newcomers that if you want to go after the the most lucretive fruit that is found in null-sec , low-sec and wormhole space . In other words "dangerous" space . There aren't many people in system in null/low/WH space and it's fairly easy to keep track of who's who out there . Plus there are intel channels , something you couldn't even make work in a system like Jita or others with anywhere from 300 to 3000 people in them at all times . A ganker can slide right up next to you in high-sec and you'd never even know they were a threat until it was too late to do anything about it . They use cheap little throw-away catalysts for the most part but even the new T3 battlecruisers are no big loss compared to the riches that can be carried by some poor unsuspecting frieghter pilot in high-sec carrying the sum total of perhaps 3-4 years accumulation and work in a ship that moves like a snail and can't even fit so much as a defense mod . What i'm saying is if you're ganked in anything other than high-sec you were often just plain unlucky and taking your chances . Not going about your business like in high-sec where you only had a slow reacting CONCORD to depend on to almost save your ship .
So I've got a few suggestions for CCP based on the above "if possible" . #1 make CONCORD show up as soon ships turn on the "disable safety" button and blow up any ship that fires on another that they don't have a war-dec or a killright on . #2 Give ships in high-sec the same DPS as a high-sec RAT would have if they were attempting to blow up a ship that they didn't have a killright or a war-dec on .

There's been a lot of buzz going around about how much danger there should be in high-sec but I don't force my game on gankers so why should they be allowed to force their game on me !

**what...what's that ? did i hear the word whine**



OP: Thank you for convincing me to come out of Ganker retirement.

http://killalliance.co.uk/tears/tears-holeysheet/

Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2014-03-10 13:01:02 UTC
Matogg wrote:
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Many very insightful people in this thread have covered most of the relevant points, but there is one other thing I'd like to add.

You say that crime in highsec has taken on the feel of organized crime. Can you tell me why that's a bad thing? This is a game that advertises itself with 'Be the Villain', after all. This is one of the only games that is competitive in this way and it's not by accident. The organized crime you speak of is some of the best content in highsec, to be frank, and I can't see why you would think of it as bad or wrong.


Monk as usural it's a pleasure to read your post and I'd be happy to answer your question . A few years ago minerals were half the price they are today and some like pyerite are much more . A battleship cost around 100,000,000 isk and today it's around 200,000,000 . These are just examples since the whole market in EvE seems to have the same trend . These changes came about with an increase of organized ganks on a major scale making it hard for new players to start out affording good , reasonable ships and mods . One organized gank that comes to mind is "Burn Jita" [it actually had a name] . Now why in EvE would anybody want to scare everybody away from maybe the only place I know of where you can purchase anything your heart desires in the blink of an eye without having to travel all over the place to find it . Now that's a crime against the whole EvE community . Once burned , twice shy they say and it's not the only example . Prices have shown it to be true . Economics work the same way anywhere you go and a few can change everything for everybody .
Remember the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973 ? It affected people all over the globe . The average wage was $5.00 per hour [in my country] and a brand new car cost $3,000 . ...but for a few greedy individuals now that same car cost over $30,000 and the wage has tripled but still , proportionally , it costs more to live now than it did then .
Some have argued that ships and mods are making manufacturers more now and therefore we should be thanking the hi-sec gankers for bringing about this pleasant change . I disagree . In the example above it's seen that we can have more money and be less wealthy than we were before . Does anybody think it's a GOOD thing to make new players as well as the old players have to pay double for their ships and mods ? [and mods aren't even insurable]


Is inflation in prices a knock-on effect of mineral prices? If it was only the mineral-produced products I might think so. THe fact that it's all products leads me to believe that higher prices isn't driven by the mineral market, but rather by raw isk, a very large portion of which is made by running missions in highsec.

Further, if it was simply an issue of mineral prices, then the earning power of the average miner would have gone up significantly. In fact, rising mineral prices without a corresponding rise in prices in areas of the market that aren't reliant (or are less reliant) on minerals would be a boon to the average miner, wouldn't it?

If this is something that's actually happening (which I don't believe it is) then you should want it to happen more.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#52 - 2014-03-10 14:30:28 UTC
I'm getting bored trying to advise people how to fit & use their ships to avoid suicide ganking but here goes:

1) Don't put more than 20 million ISK worth of cargo in a T1 industrial and don't use any T1 industrial for hauling.
Recommended ships to use for hauling include:
Prowler or your racial equivalent.
Orca.
Fenrir or your racial equivalent.

2) Fitting your ship to make a suicide gank less likely:

DO NOT! :
Use shield boosters
Use shield rechargers
Use anything to increase your speed
Use any rigs that increase shield recharge or the speed/alignment of your ship.
Fill ALL your low slots with MLU's. Use your brain PLEEEEEZE.
DO USE! :
Shield hardening type modules
Look to increase your kinetic & thermal resistances primarily.
Shield extenders good too but higher resistances are better.
Damage Control module
Rigs for resistances or shield amount as well.
Warp stabilisers depending what you are flying/doing.

The fitting advice is probably aimed at miners more than anyone else but others could pay heed as well.

Almost more important than all the above is intelligence both in how you are flying and intelligence as in knowledge of your surroundings and who the locals are. Dodgy people are obvious. Other good things not to do are start an ISboxer mining fleet corporation and continually empty all the belts in one system. Doing things like that will attract my attention. You don't want my attention. Blink I'm good looking but you won't receive that kind of attention from me. Nuff said. Smile
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#53 - 2014-03-10 16:17:54 UTC
also always mine with an alt in a mission fit battleship watching over you

it looks better on the KM when you gank an abaddon and pod as well at the retriever hes guarding


SAVE THE SPACE PENGUINS!!!
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#54 - 2014-03-10 16:40:46 UTC
I lulz at people who said back to WoW, and wonder how many of you play in PVP realm.

but again, WoW get a lot of carebear treatment recent.

I remember when best place to farm gold was at Isle, and almost always have some random small gang went killing spree around island.

And, Blizzard always state anytime someone complain about griefer in PVP realm with this statement which no doubt is perfect for EVE online. "any problem with PvP can be solved with PvP"
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#55 - 2014-03-10 16:44:11 UTC
unidenify wrote:
I lulz at people who said back to WoW, and wonder how many of you play in PVP realm.

but again, WoW get a lot of carebear treatment recent.

I remember when best place to farm gold was at Isle, and almost always have some random small gang went killing spree around island.

And, Blizzard always state anytime someone complain about griefer in PVP realm with this statement which no doubt is perfect for EVE online. "any problem with PvP can be solved with PvP"


I sorry, I don't speak WOW, could you translate that into EVE?
shelly's Jihad
The Vikings of Valhalla
Exodus.
#56 - 2014-03-10 17:06:36 UTC
Dexxel Farcry wrote:
Matogg wrote:


Monk as usural it's a pleasure to read your post and I'd be happy to answer your question . A few years ago minerals were half the price they are today and some like pyerite are much more . A battleship cost around 100,000,000 isk and today it's around 200,000,000 . These are just examples since the whole market in EvE seems to have the same trend . These changes came about with an increase of organized ganks on a major scale making it hard for new players to start out affording good , reasonable ships and mods . One organized gank that comes to mind is "Burn Jita" [it actually had a name] . Now why in EvE would anybody want to scare everybody away from maybe the only place I know of where you can purchase anything your heart desires in the blink of an eye without having to travel all over the place to find it . Now that's a crime against the whole EvE community . Once burned , twice shy they say and it's not the only example . Prices have shown it to be true . Economics work the same way anywhere you go and a few can change everything for everybody .
Remember the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973 ? It affected people all over the globe . The average wage was $5.00 per hour [in my country] and a brand new car cost $3,000 . ...but for a few greedy individuals now that same car cost over $30,000 and the wage has tripled but still , proportionally , it costs more to live now than it did then .
Some have argued that ships and mods are making manufacturers more now and therefore we should be thanking the hi-sec gankers for bringing about this pleasant change . I disagree . In the example above it's seen that we can have more money and be less wealthy than we were before . Does anybody think it's a GOOD thing to make new players as well as the old players have to pay double for their ships and mods ? [and mods aren't even insurable]


Listen to me.

You have been lied too. High sec is not safe, it's just the part of town closest to the police station.

You need to run support fleets with your logistics groups when you're hauling your precious freight around. This is not hard to do, and I'm sure you goofballs have a few turds logged on just watching their shiny spaceship spin around in station dock. Put them to use.

Most mining and industrial corps have Corp mining ops, why don't you have corp logistic ops? Fly your cargo when most of New Eden is sleeping. Send scouts out ahead, have some triage RR. Or run multiple hauls in smaller, faster, more agile vessels.

All of this can of course be summarized by simply stating the following....

Take the shrink wrap of your jiggley bits, and play the fracken game.


This would require that the mouth breathing infidels of highsec sprout brains and had "jiggley" bits other than those around their chin.

That noted and aside most of them treat the game as if it was meant to be played by 1 person with little to no contact from other players so having them form fleets or even just having a scout is a thought that has not occured to them.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2014-03-10 17:21:19 UTC
Matogg wrote:
#1 make CONCORD show up as soon ships turn on the "disable safety" button and blow up any ship that fires on another that they don't have a war-dec or a killright on . #2 Give ships in high-sec the same DPS as a high-sec RAT would have if they were attempting to blow up a ship that they didn't have a killright or a war-dec on .

I think others have addressed the main points as to why this would be bad for gameplay. My question is more important. How would concord do this? Do they put up cyno's in all grids in all high sec systems simultaneously? That sounds like it would require a significant number of cyno interceptors or corvert ops frigates. What would a concord interceptor/covert ops frigate even look like?

As for DPS drop. How would this work? Do you plan to program ships shields to drop if concord gets bribed? What would be the point of selling killrights if there's a dps drop if you don't own it? Why do you feel that its necessary to nerf gank catalysts and naga's, but not thrashers and tornados?

Please address the above questions. They are vital for ensuring the safety of all members of the high sec community.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#58 - 2014-03-10 17:40:14 UTC
Morganta wrote:
unidenify wrote:
I lulz at people who said back to WoW, and wonder how many of you play in PVP realm.

but again, WoW get a lot of carebear treatment recent.

I remember when best place to farm gold was at Isle, and almost always have some random small gang went killing spree around island.

And, Blizzard always state anytime someone complain about griefer in PVP realm with this statement which no doubt is perfect for EVE online. "any problem with PvP can be solved with PvP"


I sorry, I don't speak WOW, could you translate that into EVE?


FYI you talk to person with broken Sarcasm detector.

in case I take you serious

WoW have 2 different type of server (Realm as WoW player call them), PVE and PVP.

PVE - carebear dream world where no PVP is allowed at all. Fluffy Unicorn fly around and bless you a free candy. And everyone win 1st place for being carebear. Unless you use AOE skill (Smartbomb for you in EVE online term)

PVP - most area is same idea as Null in EVE online. allow any form of PvP, And Blizzard(CPP in EVE online term) will tell you to HTFU if problem with pvp
Anslo
Scope Works
#59 - 2014-03-10 17:49:16 UTC
We 'mouth breathers' did organize into a thing. We've been waiting to be 'put in our place as pubbies.' Sadly, highsec gankers dont seem to like low sec :(

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
id Parvi
Doomheim
#60 - 2014-03-10 18:19:14 UTC
Big smileI agree with OP that ganking is getting out of hand.

One of my alts was ganked on the entrance to a 0.5 pipe last week by a bunch of flashy people in thrashers. I even lost my pod.

It was pretty inconvenient. Took me 15 minutes to go fit a new scan ship before i could get back to ganking myself. Big smile