These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Which would you prefer for LvL 4 grinding?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Funky Koval
Bad Artists
#1 - 2014-03-07 21:07:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Funky Koval
The graph below shows damage profiles of two LvL4 boats of roughly equivalent paper DPS and overall cost. A damage profile vs a typical BS and Cruiser rat is shown for both.


Cyan / Blue: Cruise + Sentries + MJD (Fleet Typhoon)

Fits relatively light tank, has good mobility for dictating range (MJD, 500m/s AB speed). Can break out Medium/Light drones if necessary to improve DPS delivered against nearby small and med-sized rats (if they get under 20km or so). It's obvious forte, however, is sniping the big fish.


Green / Red: Turrets + Medium Drones (Vargur)

Can easily fit 600+ DPS tank (with Bastion). Enough medium slots for prop mods (400+m/s AB, MJD also possible), but damage projection drops sigificanlty while moving (i.e. with Bastion off).


Click for the image


Which one would you prefer for grinding L4s in:

a) Angel space (Minmatar missions)?
b) Sansha space (Amarr missions)?
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#2 - 2014-03-07 21:34:59 UTC
both have selectable damage, neither is affected by npc ewar in this context. vargur has the most trouble with enemies around 50km but can mwd in pretty easily and still can apply most of its damage at that range if you're using tracking computers properly. Phoon will need to MJD a fair amount, but doesn't loose damage at range. Vargur has that cargobay and the spare highslots, and with split guns will clear frigs twice as fast.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Funky Koval
Bad Artists
#3 - 2014-03-07 21:47:32 UTC
I guess the correct answer is:: get both and pick one depending on the mission (egg: Phoon for Blockade, Vargur for Vengeance)?

At this point I am leaning towards the Vargur as the better option (mostly due to the ease with which it disposes of frigs/cruisers); if I got one, woud it still be worth it to get the Phoon as welll for running some of the missions where a sniping boat is better?
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#4 - 2014-03-07 22:09:49 UTC
Funky Koval wrote:
I guess the correct answer is:: get both and pick one depending on the mission (egg: Phoon for Blockade, Vargur for Vengeance)?

At this point I am leaning towards the Vargur as the better option (mostly due to the ease with which it disposes of frigs/cruisers); if I got one, woud it still be worth it to get the Phoon as welll for running some of the missions where a sniping boat is better?


It depends on skills and such too, but you really don't need both as both are excellent. If you have 1 bn isk mission ship taht does everything exceptionally well, you'll get very little value out of a second ship that does a few missions slightly better. Unless you just want to own both.

I used to use a MJD rattle and with a light-ish tank and lots of application/mobility/damage mods. The big advantage is it would apply full damage at sniper range. But later I got the vargur with a specialized clone for it and I don't think I'll ever look back (for missions, machariel and rattle are very good outside of hisec where bastion is a potential liability). The ability to easily partially salvage or selectively salvage missions without switching ships is pretty huge, and full clearing a mission with good loot can narrow the gap between blitzing soe and running navy missions.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-03-08 00:05:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeanne-Luise Argenau
if i could use vargur then vargur,

easy reason, damps and ecm and td doesnt work in bastion. on the fleet phoon they will (maybe ignoring td).
And with a vargur and bastion ever thought about using 1400s and mjd. tested it on sisi once andhad a rly good impression
Funky Koval
Bad Artists
#6 - 2014-03-08 08:10:21 UTC
Batelle wrote:


It depends on skills and such too, but you really don't need both as both are excellent. If you have 1 bn isk mission ship taht does everything exceptionally well, you'll get very little value out of a second ship that does a few missions slightly better. Unless you just want to own both.

I used to use a MJD rattle and with a light-ish tank and lots of application/mobility/damage mods. The big advantage is it would apply full damage at sniper range. But later I got the vargur with a specialized clone for it and I don't think I'll ever look back (for missions, machariel and rattle are very good outside of hisec where bastion is a potential liability). The ability to easily partially salvage or selectively salvage missions without switching ships is pretty huge, and full clearing a mission with good loot can narrow the gap between blitzing soe and running navy missions.


Aight then.

I already got the Phoon, but I yeah I really wanna try out the Vargur too.

Since I am gonna be running both Amarr and Minmatar missions, I guess I'll use the Phoon for the former (they tend to have more ranged and slower rats, which translates into better damage application for cruises) and the Vargur for the latter.

And keep something fast and nimble like an MWD Ishtar or a T3 handy for the Cargo delivery / Recon type missions in both cases. I guess that should pretty much cover all the bases.

Cheers.
Funky Koval
Bad Artists
#7 - 2014-03-08 08:15:12 UTC
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:
if i could use vargur then vargur,

easy reason, damps and ecm and td doesnt work in bastion. on the fleet phoon they will (maybe ignoring td).
And with a vargur and bastion ever thought about using 1400s and mjd. tested it on sisi once andhad a rly good impression


Not really much worried about e-war except for an odd Serpentis mission where it's not that difficult to quickly dispose of the damping cruisers. It would be more of an issue in Galente/Caldari space I guess.

I have made a quick fit for an Arty Vargur in EFT and didn't like it, at least 'on paper'. Than again maybe I should acually test it out one day. Cheers.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#8 - 2014-03-08 08:20:44 UTC
Funky Koval wrote:

I have made a quick fit for an Arty Vargur in EFT and didn't like it, at least 'on paper'. Than again maybe I should acually test it out one day. Cheers.


Just use autocannons. Always. If you need more projection, fit at least two tracking computers.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-03-08 08:53:59 UTC
If it were me, I'd go for the turret ship. I've never been able to get any enjoyment running missions with a missile ship. But that's me, not you. Which weapons do you find more fun to use ?
Funky Koval
Bad Artists
#10 - 2014-03-08 09:10:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Funky Koval
Batelle wrote:


Just use autocannons. Always. If you need more projection, fit at least two tracking computers.


Yeah I think he/she meant it more as a playing style choice, if you are into this MJD/snping thing then I guess you can make Vargur do that too.

But it's not playing to the ship's strengths really (and I imagine one of the other Marauders would fit this role better, too).
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-03-09 22:39:43 UTC
Funky Koval wrote:
Batelle wrote:


Just use autocannons. Always. If you need more projection, fit at least two tracking computers.


Yeah I think he/she meant it more as a playing style choice, if you are into this MJD/snping thing then I guess you can make Vargur do that too.

But it's not playing to the ship's strengths really (and I imagine one of the other Marauders would fit this role better, too).



I would have thought the Golem was a better choice for MJD sniping, especially as the OP already has missile skills.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#12 - 2014-03-12 13:29:19 UTC
Funky Koval wrote:
The graph below shows damage profiles of two LvL4 boats of roughly equivalent paper DPS and overall cost. A damage profile vs a typical BS and Cruiser rat is shown for both.


Cyan / Blue: Cruise + Sentries + MJD (Fleet Typhoon)

Fits relatively light tank, has good mobility for dictating range (MJD, 500m/s AB speed). Can break out Medium/Light drones if necessary to improve DPS delivered against nearby small and med-sized rats (if they get under 20km or so). It's obvious forte, however, is sniping the big fish.


Green / Red: Turrets + Medium Drones (Vargur)

Can easily fit 600+ DPS tank (with Bastion). Enough medium slots for prop mods (400+m/s AB, MJD also possible), but damage projection drops sigificanlty while moving (i.e. with Bastion off).


Click for the image


Which one would you prefer for grinding L4s in:

a) Angel space (Minmatar missions)?
b) Sansha space (Amarr missions)?


Neither, I always trust in my old cruise-Raven. Or if a Sansha-mission is dropped in my lap, I'll take a sniper-Apoc, just for diversity.