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INTERCEPTORS TOO STRONG?

First post
Author
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#41 - 2014-03-06 21:21:21 UTC
GKFC wrote:
As opposed to "overpowered is bad because then only overpowered ships fly around a lot" which is all the OP really said?

Yeah that makes sense.


fyp, I'm sure you could have figured that out yourself.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#42 - 2014-03-06 22:11:15 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

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Dr Cedric
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-03-07 03:34:11 UTC
Perhaps another option to make the Ceptor a bit more balanced is to remove any and all Damage modifying Stat bonuses.

I'm OK with an interceptor catching me if I'm solo. I'm also OK with that interceptor holding me down with near impunity until his back-up arrives. I might be OK with 15 interceptors holding me down and all of them blowing me up (slowly). I am not OK with 15 interceptors flying around space with impunity, choosing when, where and how they engage, and being EASILY able to blow up any sub-capital ship in a matter of seconds and STILL being able to get away once they've committed to the engagement.

I want to hear of any other class/type or ship that can fill all of the roles the interceptor fills, all at the same time. Specifically:

Speed Tank, GTFO-ability, DPS (300 dps on a taranis...srsly!?!?) fastest warp, and 30km scram, ability to engage pretty much any ship, ability to disengage whenever they choose (and get away to the next system).

Flame away :)

Cedric

Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#44 - 2014-03-07 07:47:42 UTC
Dr Cedric wrote:
Speed Tank, GTFO-ability, DPS (300 dps on a taranis...srsly!?!?) fastest warp, and 30km scram, ability to engage pretty much any ship, ability to disengage whenever they choose (and get away to the next system).

Flame away :)


There's two inty types and they don't get the same bonuses, combat inties (Taranis for instance) doesn't get a 30km base point.
GKFC
Quis Leget Haec
#45 - 2014-03-07 11:14:00 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
GKFC wrote:
As opposed to "overpowered is bad because then only overpowered ships fly around a lot" which is all the OP really said?

Yeah that makes sense.


fyp, I'm sure you could have figured that out yourself.


You're being overly dramatic.
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#46 - 2014-03-07 11:40:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Aivo Dresden
People in low-sec are still catching inties fine. I think 0.0 perhaps relies a little on bubbles being the answer to ALL movement in their region. Just adapt and find something else. Having stuff escape your bubbles doesn't mean it needs nerfing. It just means you need to look for another tactic.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#47 - 2014-03-07 11:54:35 UTC
GKFC wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
GKFC wrote:
As opposed to "overpowered is bad because then only overpowered ships fly around a lot" which is all the OP really said?

Yeah that makes sense.


fyp, I'm sure you could have figured that out yourself.


You're being overly dramatic.


Technically, sure. But it's more true than what you implied.
350125GO
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2014-03-07 19:44:41 UTC  |  Edited by: 350125GO
I'm back to eve after a 4 year break and it's funny that this conversation is occurring again. (4 years ago 7km/s inties were the scourge of 0.0).

That being said, and understanding I'm not up to date on all the changes that took place in last four years, but wouldn't a few Rapiers and Hyenas counter the intie blobs? Used to work for me well; in a Rapier I had 50km or more range on a web.

And to ask a clarifying question, can you still put a point on an intie, iIs the immunity just for bubbles? TBH I think stationary bubbles are the problem, not inties.

Gate camping is boring.

You're young, you'll adjust. I'm old, I'll get used to it.

SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-03-07 20:06:07 UTC
Confirming nobody in Nullsec has any clue whatsoever how to stop inties. Yes we're still seeing formups consisting of sabres too.

While groups of the ships generally do move around with impunity, if your small gang on the gate is not catching at least one or two its simply because your fleet composition is bad.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2014-03-07 22:48:15 UTC
Interceptors aren't too strong, cynos are too strong.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#51 - 2014-03-08 00:09:33 UTC
Dr Cedric wrote:
Easiest way to fix this is to make it a module/skill

High Slot Module that only interceptors can fit, when active allows bubble immunity, but reduces lock time/range and takes up a high slot (less DPS)

So, if you want mobility and the ability to scout for your fleet and get out of bubbles, you fit for it.

If you want to take the risk of getting caught in exchange for catch your target faster and applying more damage, then do it.




This is on the right track. A 30m frigate hull should not have something that requires a T3 to fit a specific subsystem and lose a low slot.


The solution is to have the bubble immunity given by a passive high slot module that when fit reduces agility, increases ship mass, and reduces warp speed. This way you can be bubble immune or instant warp, but not both. Right now interceptors get to have their cake and eat it too.
GKFC
Quis Leget Haec
#52 - 2014-03-08 00:54:32 UTC
Except that was part of the reason for the change in the first place. To make it easier for Inties to fly around anyway.

I hope CCP doesn't give in to the knee-jerk reactions in this thread towards the Inty buff. Give it more time for the dust to settle on exactly how much of an impact this change really is having and then make a call.
Dr Cedric
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#53 - 2014-03-08 01:16:34 UTC
GKFC wrote:
Except that was part of the reason for the change in the first place. To make it easier for Inties to fly around anyway.

I hope CCP doesn't give in to the knee-jerk reactions in this thread towards the Inty buff. Give it more time for the dust to settle on exactly how much of an impact this change really is having and then make a call.


I don't think its a knee-jerk reaction. And I also hope that CCP doesn't give up on this idea. What I hope, is that interceptors, rather than being THE fleet, become a very important part of a balanced fleet.

What I want to see is that the Interceptor intercepts, and that the rest of the fleet is a necessary part of the rest of the kill. If i fly around, by myself in any other support role (Lachesis for example), I will probably only win against a lone idiot. I will most likely get popped quickly if I come up against any semi-organized fleet and stupidly choose to engage. If I'm skilled enough, I'll choose not to engage and with luck I'll make it out of the system to fight another day.

I don't see the interceptor fitting into anything other than a support role (that of intercepting), yet here we are, with a fleet of support ships doing basically anything they want. DPS to kill almost every ship quickly, speed to tank or get away with only a few worries, and the ability to roam everywhere and anywhere they want to without significant risk.

Which might sum it up the best... Very high reward...very little risk.

My opinion, flame away :)

Cedric

Horrorzombie
Doomheim
#54 - 2014-03-08 01:25:47 UTC
i totally agree they are way too strong with 0 counter unless you have a arazu and a huginn... but even then they are still able to escape (most of the time) i would at least like to see a HIC bubble that could stop the nulli for them.... just because you never see hics solo or with a gang (most of the time)
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2014-03-08 03:34:39 UTC
Dr Cedric wrote:
Easiest way to fix this is to make it a module/skill

High Slot Module that only interceptors can fit, when active allows bubble immunity, but reduces lock time/range and takes up a high slot (less DPS)

So, if you want mobility and the ability to scout for your fleet and get out of bubbles, you fit for it.

If you want to take the risk of getting caught in exchange for catch your target faster and applying more damage, then do it.

I like this idea, though I wouldn't limit it to interceptors. At the very least, make strategic cruisers need this module to get their bubble immunity with the subsystem that does it--it can have some other effect if you don't. And blockade runners have bubble immunity too right? Everyone with bubble immunity should have to fit a module for it, just like covert ops have to fit a covert ops cloak.

Also, to defeat or guard against interceptors, it helps to understand their weaknesses. One big weakness they have is CPU. They tend to have an extra high slot to fit a cloaking device, but if they fit one, it can cut their CPU more than they may be comfortable with. I'd wager that most of the more dangerous interceptors do not have one fitted. You can take advantage of this by cutting off their exits, then once you have them trapped you can bring in a scanning ship and chase them down. You might never catch the interceptor but you at least put him on the run, and he can't be used for attacking your fleet during that time.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2014-03-08 04:28:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Horrorzombie wrote:
i totally agree they are way too strong with 0 counter unless you have a arazu and a huginn... but even then they are still able to escape (most of the time) i would at least like to see a HIC bubble that could stop the nulli for them.... just because you never see hics solo or with a gang (most of the time)

This is a good idea. HIC with a unique role :) n yeah I realise they have FIS.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2014-03-08 04:32:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Horrorzombie wrote:
i totally agree they are way too strong with 0 counter unless you have a arazu and a huginn... but even then they are still able to escape (most of the time) i would at least like to see a HIC bubble that could stop the nulli for them.... just because you never see hics solo or with a gang (most of the time)

This is a good idea. HIC with a unique role :) n yeah I realise they have FIS.
I believe it's known as a Warp Disruptor.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#58 - 2014-03-08 04:35:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
Interceptors are weak as hell, you're just flying the wrong ships to engage them. What is this argument about anyway? Interceptors are to strong because you can't catch them? Ridiculous argument.
Dr Cedric
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#59 - 2014-03-08 05:33:37 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Interceptors are weak as hell, you're just flying the wrong ships to engage them. What is this argument about anyway? Interceptors are to strong because you can't catch them? Ridiculous argument.


The argument is not about whether you can catch them or not. If I fit for it, yes I can catch one. However, that interceptor in almost every case will always dictate the engagement.

On the off chance 3 people in my gang have a Huginn, a Lachesis/Arazu and a Skirmish Booster and I do catch it, sure, it will die.

On the other hand, if I don't have that, or if the server ticks in the Interceptor's favor, that interceptor gang continues to choose every aspect of the next engagement. They can decide where, when, for how long, when to disengage and when to come back. There is no other ship type that can dictate all of those things, all at the same time. Each of those options, by themselves, are fine and good and add to the game. All of them in one ship is bad.

My stealth bomber/recon can get caught in a bubble, or is slow enough if I point it to take damage.
My Blockade runner doesn't have enough DPS to do anything
My *Insert non-interceptor nano ship* is fast enough to run away, but will get caught at a gate because it doesn't "insta-warp"
My *insert every other ship in the game* will be committed to the fight for better or worse once it engages.

Put any sized gang of any ship composition against an even number of Interceptors and the worst case scenario is the Interceptors leave without taking losses. Best case is the other gang catches one or two interceptors and drives them off.

If any other gang of ships comes to my space, I can always force them to move in a certain way. If a ceptor gang comes to my space, they will always dictate every engagement, and THAT is the problem.

Flame away :)

Cedric

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#60 - 2014-03-08 05:41:46 UTC
Dr Cedric wrote:
the worst case scenario is the Interceptors leave without taking losses. Best case is the other gang catches one or two interceptors and drives them off.

So how are they dictating the engagement? Put light drones on them, they run away. Put a heavy neut on them, they run away. Put a web on them they run away. Sneeze at them, they die. So they can point from 30+ km. It doesn't mean anything if you're not dying.