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A Legion or Proteus for C3 sites?
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Jennes Cressen
The Tall Order
#1 - 2014-02-28 07:15:53 UTC
I'm looking for a t3 cruiser to solo C3 sites with and I'm about a two weeks away from flying a proteus well and a month away from getting into a legion. I understand that both are viable, and thus neither is a terrible choice, but I'd like to get some more insight from people with more experience.


My corp often clears c3's with a couple RR domi's and it never seems like our drones get targeted, so I've been leaning towards trying a sentry proteus over a legion because of the higher dps potential from my high end drone skills. Every time I solo sites in our local c2 my drones do get targeted however, so I'm worried that the lack of drone aggro is somehow related to our RR and a drone proteus will suffer.

I also hear that the legion is a more versatile ship and has a much easier time getting into incursion fleets.

Any thoughts on which t3 cruiser i should go with?

Thanks for the help
AssassinationsdoneWrong
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#2 - 2014-02-28 07:27:33 UTC
Neuts are your pain when being used to a C2 and then switching up to C3 soloing.

6 launcher AB tengu unfortunately is still the way to capitalize on C3's if you have to have a T3. Yes there are lots of fits for lots of ships that can do a C3 solo but tank vs. damage vs. gtfoutability its the tengu.

The Nexus 7's

What we fall short of in numbers we more than make up for in stupidity
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#3 - 2014-02-28 07:52:17 UTC
As above poster said, tengu is best. But between legion and proteus, use legion.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#4 - 2014-02-28 10:33:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Serendipity Lost
Shield legions with HMLs are excellent for solo c3 work. CPR and damage mods in the lows and the neuting problem just disappears. Your tank is a bit thin, but after a few trips you'll be able to afford to upgrade your invul to A-type or B-type and it will be fine. Shield extender rigs, a high end em field and you're set. Fit a good afterburner and you're in good shape.

Is it as good as a gaygu? No, but avoiding the embarassment of flying one is well worth it. It sounds like you're skills are amarr/gallente heavy, so just stick with what you know.

For the 'fly tengu' crowd - not everyone wants to fly one of those, and if the guy asks legion vs proteus help him out. That and not everyone may want to just stop training what they are about and skill up a tengu.
AssassinationsdoneWrong
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#5 - 2014-02-28 11:10:50 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:

For the 'fly tengu' crowd - not everyone wants to fly one of those, and if the guy asks legion vs proteus help him out. That and not everyone may want to just stop training what they are about and skill up a tengu.


He asked what would be the best T3 for the job. Asked and answered. Legion is a nice boat and if that is all that is skilled for + Prot then Legion over Prot yes.

Personally I don't see what's embarrassing about a Tengu or flying any other boat that gets the job done but then I'm not leet pvp or pve so I'll leave it to the experts.

The Nexus 7's

What we fall short of in numbers we more than make up for in stupidity
Chev Alsar
Van Diemen's Demise
Northern Coalition.
#6 - 2014-02-28 12:48:29 UTC
Bit disappointing that even after the buff a Rail Proteus isn't an option for this stuff.

I do agree with the above, the Legion is superior to the Proteus... but unless you're in an armor bonus'ed WH then you might as well use a Tengu.
Jennes Cressen
The Tall Order
#7 - 2014-02-28 15:33:45 UTC
Yeah, I wouldn't mind flying a tengu, but my caldari skills are pretty weak. It would take me at least an extra month to fly a Tengu well, and every time a C3 with 12 combat sites and no pvp activity passes by I die a little on the inside. Don't get me wrong, usually I have corpmates to run stuff with, but when that's not the case I feel like I'm losing a lot of isk just by not being able to run the sites solo. I don't know if I could wait through 60 days of that :p

After looking around online and playing with eft, the drone proteus looks to struggle a bit more with cap than the legion (little ironic), but has wayy more dps. Would the drones get attacked too often to make the drone proteus worth it? Is the 400 dps I get from a legion (before implants) more than enough to tackle c3 sites in a reasonable amount of time?
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
#8 - 2014-02-28 15:36:34 UTC
The 2 domis you talked about earlier put out about 1400DPS combined.

Does that answer your question ?
TXG SYNC
Dad Jokes R Us
#9 - 2014-02-28 22:03:28 UTC
Neuts in a C3 aren't that bad. If using the typical cheap dual-rep Legion setup I discuss at http://splatus.wordpress.com/2014/01/02/solo-c3-strategic-cruisers/ , you'll do just fine in all the anomalies. I'm not quite cap-stable in the fit with my skills, yet I do just fine.

If you want to be able to solo the 1300+DPS Triple Upholder Battleship spawn in Relic sites, you'll want to either plan to warp out after taking down the first battleship so you can rep up if your skills are a bit low, or else bling out your tank a little bit: a couple of faction EANMs or deadspace armor reppers, a bit better afterburner (speed matters!), will upgrade your tank to run them comfortably.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#10 - 2014-02-28 23:05:27 UTC
Legions are fine in C3 wormholes. Tengus are still probably the most efficient. But Legions can definitely work.

I'm right behind you
Judicator Jedran
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-03-04 04:36:25 UTC
Legion can run 4 c3 anomalies an hour and I havent seen a tengu doing any better for the amount of isk invested. Proteus have a bit of trouble getting dps out on the spawns so it takes longer. If you can team up with a legion or tengu then proteus works great. Also legions are better then proteus for incursions but not by much and you would not want to use the same legion for both incs and wormholes (different subs and rigs needed).
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2014-03-04 14:38:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Xequecal
Drone Proteus vastly outperforms Legion, it's not even close. You won't lose drones if you know how Sleeper aggro works on drones.

I honestly cringe whenever I see people suggest 5 HPL II or HML Legions for running C3s. Yeah, that works, if you enjoy being bored to death spending >5 minutes on every sleeper battleship, and making less ISK/hour then nullsec anoms.

[New Setup 1]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer,Nanite Repair Paste
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Armor EM Hardener II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Shadow Serpentis 100MN Afterburner
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Heavy Ion Blaster II,Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II,Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II,Antimatter Charge M
Expanded Probe Launcher II,Core Scanner Probe I
Salvager II
Small Tractor Beam II

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Proteus Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors

Drones_Active=Ogre II,4
Drones_Inactive=Hobgoblin II,15
Drones_Inactive=Hammerhead II,5

This is heavily overtanked, does more DPS than the Pulse Legion even with the blasters turned off, has a probe launcher fitted to keep watch over the wormhole, and even gives you the option of tractoring/salvaging the site while you're running it so you don't even have to deploy a MTU that could quickly be scanned down. You also have 100mn AB to give you the best chance of getting away from a tackler that you missed.

Ogres will not take sleeper aggro if only battleships are still alive, Hammerheads will not take aggro if only BSes and cruisers are still alive. You will occasionally lose a hobgoblin while killing the sleeper frigs, but if you're willing to slowly kill the frigs with your blasters before deploying drones you can even avoid this.
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#13 - 2014-03-04 18:19:47 UTC
The drones never get targeted when running RR because sleepers hate RR over drones if you are running with no RR they will destroy your drones quickly.
Jennes Cressen
The Tall Order
#14 - 2014-03-04 21:23:19 UTC
I love that drone proteus fit, it has almost twice the dps of several of the legion fits I was looking at. I take that you can afford such low explosive resists because your speed with the afterburner keeps you from worrying much about missiles?


Does look like pilot error could be pretty dangerous though
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2014-03-04 23:14:52 UTC
Jennes Cressen wrote:
I love that drone proteus fit, it has almost twice the dps of several of the legion fits I was looking at. I take that you can afford such low explosive resists because your speed with the afterburner keeps you from worrying much about missiles?


Does look like pilot error could be pretty dangerous though


Sleeper battleship missiles have an exp radius of over 300 so you take half damage from them even if you're not moving at all. Also, missiles can't wreck so "pilot error" will never make you suck up some triple damage shots to your exp/kin resists if you get unlucky alongside it.
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
#16 - 2014-03-05 02:14:28 UTC
Icarus Able wrote:
The drones never get targeted when running RR because sleepers hate RR over drones if you are running with no RR they will destroy your drones quickly.


Can i RR my own drones to avoid drone agro?
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#17 - 2014-03-05 18:02:34 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Drone Proteus vastly outperforms Legion, it's not even close. You won't lose drones if you know how Sleeper aggro works on drones.

I honestly cringe whenever I see people suggest 5 HPL II or HML Legions for running C3s. Yeah, that works, if you enjoy being bored to death spending >5 minutes on every sleeper battleship, and making less ISK/hour then nullsec anoms.

This is heavily overtanked, does more DPS than the Pulse Legion even with the blasters turned off, has a probe launcher fitted to keep watch over the wormhole, and even gives you the option of tractoring/salvaging the site while you're running it so you don't even have to deploy a MTU that could quickly be scanned down. You also have 100mn AB to give you the best chance of getting away from a tackler that you missed.

Ogres will not take sleeper aggro if only battleships are still alive, Hammerheads will not take aggro if only BSes and cruisers are still alive. You will occasionally lose a hobgoblin while killing the sleeper frigs, but if you're willing to slowly kill the frigs with your blasters before deploying drones you can even avoid this.


Do you have any trouble with the alpha damage from say an initial warp-in strike from some of the sites with multiple Argos and ships?
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2014-03-06 17:01:33 UTC
Obil Que wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
Drone Proteus vastly outperforms Legion, it's not even close. You won't lose drones if you know how Sleeper aggro works on drones.

I honestly cringe whenever I see people suggest 5 HPL II or HML Legions for running C3s. Yeah, that works, if you enjoy being bored to death spending >5 minutes on every sleeper battleship, and making less ISK/hour then nullsec anoms.

This is heavily overtanked, does more DPS than the Pulse Legion even with the blasters turned off, has a probe launcher fitted to keep watch over the wormhole, and even gives you the option of tractoring/salvaging the site while you're running it so you don't even have to deploy a MTU that could quickly be scanned down. You also have 100mn AB to give you the best chance of getting away from a tackler that you missed.

Ogres will not take sleeper aggro if only battleships are still alive, Hammerheads will not take aggro if only BSes and cruisers are still alive. You will occasionally lose a hobgoblin while killing the sleeper frigs, but if you're willing to slowly kill the frigs with your blasters before deploying drones you can even avoid this.


Do you have any trouble with the alpha damage from say an initial warp-in strike from some of the sites with multiple Argos and ships?




Argos are EM/Therm damage, so nope. You can't manage Recursive Depot in the drone Proteus but I don't think anything but a pimped out Tengu or Loki can manage that one.

Argos are actually the most annoying sleeper for a drone boat, they have a very low sig and the drones wreck their own tracking orbiting them and thus take forever to kill them.
Bird Flu Vulnero
The Classy Gentlemans Corporation
Moist.
#19 - 2014-03-06 21:17:33 UTC
If you dont mind bringing in a salvager you can get a rail proteus that does more dps than a legion at better range with a better tank.
Talon Kane
ExeKrab
#20 - 2014-03-07 17:21:53 UTC
I'm clearing C3 sites solo in my 1.3b legion and I would never trade it for an ugly and low dps tengu :)
I'm doing 700 dps in close range and near 500 in long range (40km). I can clear any normal combat sites.

Also, Wh PvE in a legion is more fun than in a tengu. I don't really know about the prot but I heard it sux against sleepers.

« I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer ».

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