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Ganked in High Sec... ??? Concord???

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Vila eNorvic
#21 - 2014-03-05 02:31:08 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Vila eNorvic wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
-9? You can remove them from their ships without Concord retaliation everywhere in highsec. No killrights required. Though they will get killrights for you thenLol.

No.

You only get kill rights if you are attacked illegally and don't shoot back.


They however DO get LE flags on you.

Of course.

Anyone who is shot at is entitled to shoot back, whatever the circumstances.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#22 - 2014-03-05 05:18:46 UTC
Vila eNorvic wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
-9? You can remove them from their ships without Concord retaliation everywhere in highsec. No killrights required. Though they will get killrights for you thenLol.

No.

You only get kill rights if you are attacked illegally and don't shoot back.

My bad. I need to stop carebearing I guess Blink.

Remove standings and insurance.
Frank Pannon
Emerald Swine Escavations
#23 - 2014-03-05 07:27:39 UTC
Lemon, you can check what killed you ingame in your combat log/losses. I also found your loss on zkillboard.com by entering your name in the top right corner.

Your loss may feel big now, but is actually quite minor, and you will see it later. It is good that you experienced loosing pixels with something that cheap. Only a small wound.

As other suggested, try mining in a more well tanked ship. You will sacrifice your yield, but gain survivability.

Keep an open and curious mind, and you will have fun and succeed in EVE. Good luck!
Allas-Ruii
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2014-03-05 08:35:31 UTC
Rob Kashuken wrote:
Ah, learned something from this thread...

Warped into a 0.6 system last night (trying my luck at lower sec systems outside of the newbie areas) and started mining in a venture, there were a few others in retrievers and ventures around, and rapidly found myself chatting with a navy Raven pilot whilst a few other larger ships appeared nearby.

Couldn't work out why I was the focus of so much attention then.... now I know.


A navy raven isn't going to gank you. In fact I would want a Navy raven to gank me, because I'm so whoring on that kill mail :P
Disastro
Wrecking Shots
#25 - 2014-03-05 12:34:11 UTC
Lemon Nado wrote:
I was in a .6 System mining.... Retriever, nothing in the ore hold.... I noticed a small venture coming in and flying by.
Next thing two guys show up and blow me up. wtf... One guy had -9 security.... I am not whining.... just thought there is police, or concord or something above .5.... What gives??? Once they shot at me, I could not even hit the jump button so quickly I blew up... Is that concord thing a myth??? System was Raneilles....


Welcome to mining in Eve Online

Concord will kill the attackers but not until they have killed you,. It is possible for a negative security status player to jump in from nearby low sec and warp gate to gate until he enters your system warps to a cloaked scout sitting next to you and then proceed to fire off a couple of shots before concord kills him

They sacrifice their thrasher/catalyst/whatever and you lose your mining ship/pod

Its called suicide ganking because they know concord will kill them afterwards. The just dont care
cpt Varox
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2014-03-05 12:39:29 UTC
A valuable lesson learned.
Eve does not hold hands nor protect you, it just has consequences. Your shapest weapon / defence is your mind.
Rapala Armiron
Arton Yachting and Angling Club
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#27 - 2014-03-05 15:30:54 UTC
Lucas Padecain wrote:
Lemon Nado wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
CONCORD guarantee consequences, but they do not guarantee safety.

If you are un-docked, your ship and pod can be destroyed.


I thought that pirates cannot get past the gates into highsec with such a low standing... And that the risk of being ganked is almost nill in above .5... So the documentation is shmockumentation.... I get it....

Really... how do they get in when they are not supposed to be able?!

Now I have two kill rights.... I don;t even know what to do with that 8)))....
I heard I can give them away.... Anyone want two kill rights???

L...


It's not that they can't enter the system, it's that the faction police in that system will chase them around and can blow them up if they're caught. CONCORD will only come when there's been an unlawful act of aggression and will destroy the culprit. However, the security status of the system also plays a factor in this. The time from the act of aggression to CONCORD showing up gets longer the lower the security status. In a 0.5 system it's somewhere around 20 seconds if I remember right, with a 1.0 system being a matter of a few seconds.

Just remember, people can go into whichever system they want to want to and nothing will stop them. But, based on standings and security status, their activities/movements within those systems can be hampered. Nobody is ever "truly" safe when they're undocked.


The po po won't chase you if you are in a pod or docked. So they could just remain docked till they got a warp in or have an orca at a safe pop out ships as be necessary. Also be aware of systems adjacent to lowsec cause then all they got to do is sit on the lowsec gate waiting for the warpin. Don't assume you will see the warpin ship either as it could be cloaked.
Rapala Armiron
Arton Yachting and Angling Club
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#28 - 2014-03-05 15:37:01 UTC
Vila eNorvic wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Vila eNorvic wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
-9? You can remove them from their ships without Concord retaliation everywhere in highsec. No killrights required. Though they will get killrights for you thenLol.

No.

You only get kill rights if you are attacked illegally and don't shoot back.


They however DO get LE flags on you.

Of course.

Anyone who is shot at is entitled to shoot back, whatever the circumstances.


Fun newbee tip. Hang out on a lowsec gate and watch for the pirates with bad standing. With a fast locking ship you can point them and hold them for the po po - a citizens arrest as it were. You can get a lot of tears this way along the line of way can't you fight fair or you can only fight in high sec. And yes pirates move big ships through high sec with the po po after them so depending where you are it's not just a shuttle or frig hunt.
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-03-05 16:19:23 UTC
Disastro wrote:
Concord will kill the attackers but not until they have killed you,.
I know that you know how things work, but that statement is misleading.

Concord will kill the attackers, but only after x seconds. This could be before they kill you (saving you) or after that. The number of seconds only depends on the security status of the system and whether or not Concord is already spawned in that system. Whether or not the attacker had time to kill you is irrelevant to Concord.

But those times are fixed and known and attackers can calculate whether they have enough firepower to kill you before Concord arrives. While people who just dabble into suicide ganks might miscalculate and fail to kill you, experienced gankers know what they can kill within those x seconds.

So, yes, if someone does attack you in high sec, expect to die before Concord arrives.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#30 - 2014-03-05 17:43:05 UTC
Soooo...this.

See the proposed new Aura new-player tutorial at the bottom.

F

Would you like to know more?
Manttis Shichi
Tortuga Coalition 102
#31 - 2014-03-05 23:03:59 UTC
Thomas Builder wrote:
Disastro wrote:
Concord will kill the attackers but not until they have killed you,.
I know that you know how things work, but that statement is misleading.

Concord will kill the attackers, but only after x seconds. This could be before they kill you (saving you) or after that. The number of seconds only depends on the security status of the system and whether or not Concord is already spawned in that system. Whether or not the attacker had time to kill you is irrelevant to Concord.

But those times are fixed and known and attackers can calculate whether they have enough firepower to kill you before Concord arrives. While people who just dabble into suicide ganks might miscalculate and fail to kill you, experienced gankers know what they can kill within those x seconds.

So, yes, if someone does attack you in high sec, expect to die before Concord arrives.


I agree with you however I have seen banks fail simply because of an error in execution. Any fleet OP can be tricky, suicide ganking with criminals is even more difficult. If one of the fleet members is just a tad slow, gets bumped while aligning ect... The faction police can catch them . This means that the gankers are down one ship when they land on their victim and the May not have the dps to finish the job.

They also can be surprised by an unusually well thought out tank, and again fail in the attempt.

I don't like getting my miners ganked, so I have spent some time learning how to avoid it and have talked to a number of them after they have either been successful, or not. While I don't choose that game style, I have learned that it isn't as simple and easy as I once thought.
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2014-03-06 00:13:43 UTC
Ganks fail all the time. But gankers simply don't care about losing ships. Even a failed gank was more fun than sitting in a belt staring at rocks.
Many of the most prolific gankers add a role-playing element to what they do, like James 315 and friends. Thus, they are having fun playing Eve even when they are stuck waiting out an aggression timer.

Nowhere is safe, loss is real. Welcome to Eve Online.
Mister Simms
Society for Miner Education
#33 - 2014-03-06 00:29:12 UTC
What do you "role playing"? Isn't this real?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#34 - 2014-03-06 07:40:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
If you're mining you should consider the occasional suicide gank as a business cost, the New Order guys will generally ask for 10m isk to leave you alone for a year, make sure you read the code if you decide to pay, any infraction cancels your "permit".

Yes it's an extortion racket, and yes it's allowed. They're actually a fun bunch to chat with when it's not your tears in local.

Others won't bother, or you decide to not pay. In either case a well tanked Procurer is your goto ship. Low cost, and massive tank at the cost of a little efficiency and a smaller ore bay make it a miners best friend in a hostile environment.

Personally I fly a Procurer anyway. If you need help with a fit send me a PM or ask in thread.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#35 - 2014-03-06 13:46:47 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
If you're mining you should consider the occasional suicide gank as a business cost, the New Order guys will generally ask for 10m isk to leave you alone for a year, make sure you read the code if you decide to pay, any infraction cancels your "permit".

Yes it's an extortion racket, and yes it's allowed. They're actually a fun bunch to chat with when it's not your tears in local.

Others won't bother, or you decide not pay. In either case a well tanked Procurer is your goto ship. Low cost, and massive tank at the cost of a little efficiency and a smaller ore bay make it a miners best friend in a hostile environment.

Personally I fly a Procurer anyway.


Also keep in mind that ganking is actually beneficial to you (as long as you are not on the receiving side, of course), since other miners are nothing but competition.
Less miners, less mineral supply, higher prices and all that boring economical sh!t that can make someone real rich...

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#36 - 2014-03-06 14:13:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
And then there's the business opportunities, gankers generate a ready market for gank ships and modules, as well as a nice little sideline in mining ships and modules, get to know them, where they work, what they need and work the markets, or go into production with some friends.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-03-06 17:04:24 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
And then there's the business opportunities, gankers generate a ready market for gank ships and modules, as well as a nice little sideline in mining ships and modules, get to know them, where they work, what they need and work the markets, or go into production with some friends.


This.

Everytime a miners is ganked. A new mining ship must be bought AND a new ganking ship must be bought.

Everytime a gank fails. A new ganking ship must be bought.

A great opportunity if you know how to play a market.

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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-03-06 18:30:58 UTC
Disastro wrote:
Lemon Nado wrote:
I was in a .6 System mining.... Retriever, nothing in the ore hold.... I noticed a small venture coming in and flying by.
Next thing two guys show up and blow me up. wtf... One guy had -9 security.... I am not whining.... just thought there is police, or concord or something above .5.... What gives??? Once they shot at me, I could not even hit the jump button so quickly I blew up... Is that concord thing a myth??? System was Raneilles....


Welcome to mining in Eve Online

Concord will kill the attackers but not until they have killed you,. It is possible for a negative security status player to jump in from nearby low sec and warp gate to gate until he enters your system warps to a cloaked scout sitting next to you and then proceed to fire off a couple of shots before concord kills him

They sacrifice their thrasher/catalyst/whatever and you lose your mining ship/pod

Its called suicide ganking because they know concord will kill them afterwards. The just dont care

Why would a suicide ganker be in low sec? Seems a terrible place to stage ganks from. A high sec station with a nice big docking radius, and some good instant undock and docking bookmarks would be much better.

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Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2014-03-06 21:12:10 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:

Why would a suicide ganker be in low sec? Seems a terrible place to stage ganks from. A high sec station with a nice big docking radius, and some good instant undock and docking bookmarks would be much better.


because a lot of us are lowsec pirates and when we have time we go suicide ganking, since we are already -10 its a good combo. Sec loss for the gank matters little when you are already an outlaw, and being an outlaw matters little when you spend the majority of your time in lowsec.

So i can make money on my ganking character, do fleets, chew the fat, and go gank some poor miner.
Otto Von Kaat
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2014-03-06 23:01:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Otto Von Kaat
Quote:


Thx for the advice. And no... no whining here. Just was surprised because I interpreted what I read incorrectly. I thought that the patrols at the jump gates would instantly take care of anyone flagged.... This actually leads to interesting new avenues for my alt 8)....

So, one can warp in, then hit and run... I got it. I'll sell the kill rights for one ISK lol...

Btw... I took my covert into that area and it seems that Concord DID engage. The place was full of them. And at least one of the punks got it according to wreck information. lol...

I did not quite get what ship type sank me...... But I blew up in less than a second... splat...

Thanks for all the info. A little less noob!


As other have said use a procurer and fit a T2 tank. Retrievers are just too easy to pop no matter the fittings.

My procurer survived a gank attempt last week. Four destroyers were lost in the attempt and I still had 95% of my structure. This was in a .5 system so they had plenty of time. The corp who made the attempt had lots of successful retriever kills but only one procurer kill on a terrible fit. I don't know if they just didn't have enough pilots to do it right or if they forgot to check my tank before trying. I had a full T2 tank carefully balanced in EFT. One or two more destroyers and they would have had the kill. I guess they got lazy.

Understand that even with a well-tanked procurer if the group of pirates want you dead they will succeed. All a well-tanked procurer does is make you a less attractive target relative to the other miners around.

And as far as the kill right is concerned don't sell it for one isk. Make is between 2 and 5 million. A little experience has told me that most players consider that a fair price to kill someone in HS or LS without repercussions. Set it too low and the player will have an alt or friend buy it and use it. Set it too high and no one will use it.