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Reverse Skill Point Management
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Setsune Rin
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2014-03-04 14:04:16 UTC
yeah...lets give people the ability to change millions of skillpoints every week

though i would love to cut mining 5 out of my skull this really isn't the solution
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#22 - 2014-03-04 14:05:32 UTC
The Sinister wrote:


Because its a GAME
! and games should be fun and not a way to torment your self with previous bad planning. Everyone should be able to be happy with their toons and not regret it and sell them in a Character Bazzar. Or even worse leave game.


and a bloody good one without ur idea.

some ppl like a challenge. some ppl like planning. some ppl like that eve has real consequences. some ppl like how doing things right first time gives u an edge over those who dont. some ppl like how losses are (mostly) permanent.

if u want a game where all ur mistakes can be easily corrected/reimbursed, then maybe ur not going to like eve.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#23 - 2014-03-04 14:07:26 UTC
The Sinister wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
what happened to actions have consequences and living with ur decisions?

Why would we like to encourage instantaneous SP swapping into FOTM?

lets not.


Because its a GAME
! and games should be fun and not a way to torment your self with previous bad planning. Everyone should be able to be happy with their toons and not regret it and sell them in a Character Bazzar. Or even worse leave game.


Living with the consequences of our decisions is a large part of what makes EvE worth playing, at least for me and those that I fly with.

If you find EvE a torment should you not be looking for an MMO that better matches your expectations rather than trying to devalue this one?

EvE is after all not to everyones taste.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
The Sinister
Interbellum
#24 - 2014-03-04 14:07:48 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
The Sinister wrote:


Because its a GAME
! and games should be fun and not a way to torment your self with previous bad planning. Everyone should be able to be happy with their toons and not regret it and sell them in a Character Bazzar. Or even worse leave game.


and a bloody good one without ur idea.

some ppl like a challenge. some ppl like planning. some ppl like that eve has real consequences. some ppl like how doing things right first time gives u an edge over those who dont. some ppl like how losses are (mostly) permanent.

if u want a game where all ur mistakes can be easily corrected/reimbursed, then maybe ur not going to like eve.



I like Eve mate i have been here 10 years since the begining You Little Grasshopper!
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#25 - 2014-03-04 14:15:16 UTC
The Sinister wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
The Sinister wrote:


Because its a GAME
! and games should be fun and not a way to torment your self with previous bad planning. Everyone should be able to be happy with their toons and not regret it and sell them in a Character Bazzar. Or even worse leave game.


and a bloody good one without ur idea.

some ppl like a challenge. some ppl like planning. some ppl like that eve has real consequences. some ppl like how doing things right first time gives u an edge over those who dont. some ppl like how losses are (mostly) permanent.

if u want a game where all ur mistakes can be easily corrected/reimbursed, then maybe ur not going to like eve.



I like Eve mate i have been here 10 years since the begining You Little Grasshopper!


no way....i've seen ur threads

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Darthvadara
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-03-04 14:26:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Darthvadara
Good idea but you have to sugar coat it so that CCP find your deal irresistible to not implement. Suggest something along the line of having to spend ISK for re-allocation of skill points, say an insane amount of 1 million ISK or more to re-allocate every 100 skill points. To ensure that this does not de-generate into a pay-to-win design, have it such that you can only re-allocate your skill point ONCE a year (like the attribute point of your char).

So, for a player who wish to re-allocate his skillpoints, he can only spent his real life money (via PLEX converted to ISK on the market) ONCE a year. CCP earns his money, while the player gets what he want, at the same time, he cannot do it often as and when he wishes. Win win for all.

Alternatively, implement a Skill-Point-Reallocation (SPREAL) card much like the concept of PLEX where you can buy on market or web store and activate it once a year to re-allocate certain number of skill points (say each card can allocate 500,000 skill points for example).
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#27 - 2014-03-04 14:34:37 UTC
Darthvadara wrote:
To ensure that this does not de-generate into a pay-to-win design


couldnt tell if u were being sarcastic here, as the rest of ur posts describes a de-generate pay-to-win design....

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Light Combat Drone
Bearded BattleBears
#28 - 2014-03-04 15:42:21 UTC
I like the general idea, but it needs to be slow and at a penalty. I'd suggest something like:


  • You can set 1 skill to untrain (the 1 skill training/queue are unaffected and run as normal)
  • Untraining removes SP from that skill at the same rate as SP would be gained for it (based on attributes + implants)
  • If you have any skill training, you get 33% of the SP lost added to that skill (per tick)
  • If you have no skill in training, you get 25% of the SP lost as spendable SP (higher penalty as these are more convenient)


This makes it possible to shed harmful or useless skills in time. Doing this accelerates training new skills somewhat, but doesn't make it possible to instantly (or even quickly) switch doctrines. It overall has a negative effect on total SP of the character so it carries a hefty penalty that makes it undesirable to frequently unlearn skills.
Rab See
Stellar Dynamics
#29 - 2014-03-04 16:20:10 UTC
Seliah wrote:
-1.

Not being able to reallocate skillpoints makes you think more about your choices, gives you a greater sense of achievement when you finish training something and makes you regret your bad decisions. It also makes it harder for a group of pilots to shift their specialization from one type of fleet to another.

I would hate to see such a thing implemented into the game. Everybody with enough SP would become able to do pretty much anything if they decide to reallocate their SP. It's no fun. And no amount of ISK fee or time limitation will change that imo.


So I chose to fly the Naglfar ... which required Capital Missile skills ... and totally out of my control? I couldn't use that invested time. This did not leave me with a sense of achievement, simply a sense of annoyance at the wasted time, but it happened to a lot of people in a lot of ways.

But still don't like the idea of an auto reallocate, as it is really a testament to how you played, and now play the game. How you made dumb decisions, or ones that are moot (see above). Too easy for someone with 20M skillpoints to basically move them around and do everything well, as required in a very short timeperiod.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#30 - 2014-03-04 16:23:07 UTC
oh hey its this thread that gets posted a multiple times per week since forever.

its a terrible idea, will never happen, dealwithit.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-03-04 16:24:18 UTC
This would also give older chars with spare SP they no longer use a massive advantage as they could very rapidly (in training terms) max out skills in the current FOTM ship/doctrine.
Cathy Mikakka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-03-04 17:08:23 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
So 50% of the consequence of your choice to train certain skills. This would be like me trading in 50% of my knowledge in Chemistry (where my degree is) to gain extra knowledge in my IT skills that I currently use in my job. It doesn't make sense to me.

But apparently, you could trade your skills in learning for anything else. Because that made sense in real life too!

Personally, -1 but I would like to see way to remove unwanted skills for no compensation, just to get rid of some **** and make perfect V character(s)...
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-03-04 17:15:04 UTC
Cathy Mikakka wrote:


But apparently, you could trade your skills in learning for anything else. Because that made sense in real life too!



I didn't trade skills, just learned new ones from scratch
Cathy Mikakka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-03-04 17:16:18 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Cathy Mikakka wrote:


But apparently, you could trade your skills in learning for anything else. Because that made sense in real life too!



I didn't trade skills, just learned new ones from scratch

When learning skills went gone, you got free SP to invest anywhere immediately. REALITY DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT!!!!!!!1one
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises
Goonswarm Federation
#35 - 2014-03-04 17:31:29 UTC
OP,

This idea of skill point reallocation is not good for the game. It can be abused to easily & would do nothing but have everyone change there skills to the FOTM every month.

But I do agree that something needs to be done with wasted/unused skills.

Even though you have to inject a new skill to ever try something out in this game, there should be consequences when you inject that skill. I believe that it was your choice to inject those skill, then it should be your choice to remove those skills.

PLEX for the Removal of Unwanted Skills

You DO NOT get the skill points or cost of skill books reimbursed.

The cost of the PLEX covers any future clone costs that you might avoid & allows CCP to make some money to put a little time into developing this feature.

My biggest problem with skills is that you have to have them installed before you can try out a ship or a feature in the game, i.e. Planet Interaction (PI).

I trained all 5 of those skills to level 4 when they introduced PI into the game thinking "Hey this will be fun". I was wrong, after a few months of boring click fest, I have never used the skills again & will never use them again.

Why can I not remove the skills? I understand that I injected them & I understand that I do not deserve the skill points or cost of skill books reimbursed.

It should be my choice to remove them, just like it was my choice to inject them. But I do agree, there should be consequences.


R.I.P. Vile Rat
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2014-03-04 19:42:08 UTC
How about allowing characters to train skills backwards (removing the skill if you get to skill level 0)? I would actually take the time to shed some skills if it meant my character sheet was cleaner.

/OCD powers activate!
Mag's
Azn Empire
#37 - 2014-03-04 22:20:13 UTC
I agree with allowing you to untrain a skill, but at the same rate as you train it. What I do not agree with, is retaining the SP you untrain. You should not be able to move SP that way, ever.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2014-03-04 22:40:13 UTC
Agreed. Put this is asap.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#39 - 2014-03-05 01:24:44 UTC
Mag's wrote:
I agree with allowing you to untrain a skill, but at the same rate as you train it. What I do not agree with, is retaining the SP you untrain. You should not be able to move SP that way, ever.



this would be the fairest caveat to resolve this matter.


If the ocd eats at them this much...well then wipe that skill and move on. I could live with this. Only benefit to this is bitters get clones as cheap as they want losing sp amounts. No biggy here really imo. But I am biased here...I keep on creeping up that sp scale lol.

And it avoids fotm sp shifts. Example: the only real reason I have caldari BS 5 on a char now is due to its needed for blops (used to be also for 25% resists on rokh, ccp took that away and as I like passive resists it made me kind of sad as the 4% l lost means alot with the passives...oh well).


One day blops will get fixed. that day comes I will say for a scenario redeemer become a terror of the space lanes (fit and flown right now they can be now but that is for the blops threads). I won't lie....if I had this option I might cash in caldari bs 5 for amarr 5 to join the fotm herd this would create if the redeemer was just that ungodly op. Even at 50%..its like 14ish days saved to be all in the fotm crew. I'll take that happily.
Sylveria Relden
#40 - 2014-03-05 03:10:34 UTC
Want to reverse skill points? Simple. Don't update your clone, get killed.

Voila! Instant Skill Point reversal.

TL;DR If you didn't read the entire post perhaps you're probably ADHD. (seek help)
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