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Elder Scrolls Online (aka Skyrim MMO) NDA Lifted

Author
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-02-18 16:45:42 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
Abyss Azizora wrote:

3. There are no "working" pure classes, you are forced to multi-class or be gimped into oblivion (No pun intended.) This is due to VERY low stat caps and armor caps. A pure tank for example is impossible, that guy who is half mage dps, and half tank is every bit as much a tank as you while also being a dps mage.


This is probably the best feature with the entire game. So much customization that many other games have failed to deliver. It is not wow where you go cookie cutter spec and do exactly the same thing as the player besides you.
The ESO class system is more like eve's char progression. Which I think is awesome.

EVE character system has very little to do with any MMO class system. The equivalent of that in EVE would be ship types. The idea is to allow people to gain access to every "class", but still limit their abilities to a somewhat predictable set each time they undock and specialization is certainly awarded. It also guarantees a large variation in ship types and fits from an overall perspective. ESO will have this too whether it wants to or not. It'll just be achieved through optimal equipment set requirements found through experimentation and not on character abilities. You can opt not to do it like you can opt to dual tank your ships or fit close and long range weapons on the same hull, but in reality some things will just work better and the mass will always move towards that. It's not a bad thing either. Either you have builds or equipment sets that are simply better at a job or your entire system is basically meaningless and everyone is the same as everyone else.
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#22 - 2014-02-18 20:18:54 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Abyss Azizora wrote:

3. There are no "working" pure classes, you are forced to multi-class or be gimped into oblivion (No pun intended.) This is due to VERY low stat caps and armor caps. A pure tank for example is impossible, that guy who is half mage dps, and half tank is every bit as much a tank as you while also being a dps mage.


This is probably the best feature with the entire game. So much customization that many other games have failed to deliver. It is not wow where you go cookie cutter spec and do exactly the same thing as the player besides you.
The ESO class system is more like eve's char progression. Which I think is awesome.

EVE character system has very little to do with any MMO class system. The equivalent of that in EVE would be ship types. The idea is to allow people to gain access to every "class", but still limit their abilities to a somewhat predictable set each time they undock and specialization is certainly awarded. It also guarantees a large variation in ship types and fits from an overall perspective. ESO will have this too whether it wants to or not. It'll just be achieved through optimal equipment set requirements found through experimentation and not on character abilities. You can opt not to do it like you can opt to dual tank your ships or fit close and long range weapons on the same hull, but in reality some things will just work better and the mass will always move towards that. It's not a bad thing either. Either you have builds or equipment sets that are simply better at a job or your entire system is basically meaningless and everyone is the same as everyone else.


I think you misunderstood me. In most MMOs your spec will be specialized for a certain role and you often need to invest all your "skillpoints" into it in order for it to work. In ESO you will end up with spare points if you just specliazes. So it will encourage you to branch out and get skills for other roles. Likewise in eve there is a limit on how much you can improve on 1 type of ship.

So what both games have in common is the fact that you can spend your skillpoints and get good at multiple things rather than having to focus on 1. However you will still be limited to do 1 (or a few) things at a time, as you in ESO will be limited to 2 weapon sets (thus skills for other weapons will not be used) and you will have limited amount of active abilites on your skillbar. Likewise in EVE, you can have 10 million worth of skillpoints in battleships, but if you fly a cruiser they do not matter.

This creates flexible charactors that you as a player can mold for the roles you need to perform. In ESO you switch weapons and active abilities and in EVE you swtich ship and fitting. That way you can adjust for what you need without having to respec / reroll.

❤️️💛💚💙💜

Astenion
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-02-18 20:30:02 UTC
I'd say the only MMO to get it right in the last few years is The Secret World. I like SWTOR but only because it's Star Wars.

I'm in the TESO beta and I didn't play recently because I was having too much fun in The Secret World. I tried it a month or so ago and was mildly impressed. It looks interesting, but I dunno if it looks 15 bucks a month interesting.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-02-20 10:35:29 UTC
TESO just seems like it'll be the first game in the series that I'll take a pass on. It's a shame too because once this inevitably flops after a couple of months or so we might just never see another proper single-player TES game.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
#25 - 2014-02-20 10:51:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Baby ChuChu
Andski wrote:
TESO just seems like it'll be the first game in the series that I'll take a pass on. It's a shame too because once this inevitably flops after a couple of months or so we might just never see another proper single-player TES game.


This is being made by a different studio than the one who does the main entries so if this flops, only this studio will get canned. Either way, the mainline Elder Scrolls games are such huge moneymakers that even if this did turn out to be a colossal flop and was being made by the same studio that makes the main games, they still wouldn't stop making Elder Scrolls games. Waaaaaay too much money to walk away from.
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#26 - 2014-02-20 12:56:56 UTC
Baby ChuChu wrote:
Andski wrote:
TESO just seems like it'll be the first game in the series that I'll take a pass on. It's a shame too because once this inevitably flops after a couple of months or so we might just never see another proper single-player TES game.


This is being made by a different studio than the one who does the main entries so if this flops, only this studio will get canned. Either way, the mainline Elder Scrolls games are such huge moneymakers that even if this did turn out to be a colossal flop and was being made by the same studio that makes the main games, they still wouldn't stop making Elder Scrolls games. Waaaaaay too much money to walk away from.


But the downfall could still overflow to the traditional single player series and kill the 'vibe' so to speak enough to destroy the series. Unlikely, but valid worry non the less.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#27 - 2014-02-20 21:38:47 UTC
One time bump to fix forum.
Tylbana
#28 - 2014-02-24 07:34:59 UTC
It's funny that EVERY single forum I've been on the overall sentiment of ESO is "meh." The thing that stands out the most, not a single beta for the game has come out to defend it and say it's worth the money.
Doireen Kaundur
Doomheim
#29 - 2014-02-25 23:58:39 UTC
I had a hard time getting over the character animation and the way clothing wears on the character. I had just come from playing Rift which had awesome character animation and the clothing loked like clothing, not spandex metal plate.

Looks like they didnt even bother with motion capture for the character animations.

Another thing..you cant swim underwater.

So overall "meh."

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Just Lilly
#30 - 2014-02-26 01:36:07 UTC
imo, all they had to do, was to release the next game in the series with added
co-op mode for up to 8 players.

Instead of going all out developing a brand new mmo.
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Reiisha
#31 - 2014-02-26 09:55:33 UTC
An MMO could have worked, but not in the way they did here.

A TES MMO should not have set quest paths, except for the ones you seek out deliberately (IE, not being pointed to them), like the guild quests.

Quests should be level independant. There should not be a set path through the world appropriate for your progression, you should be free to do what you want.

Collecting stuff and having a house is quite important - As you can't mod an MMO you need to have a place in the game that's truly yours to at least emulate the feeling of ownership you get with a modded game. Housing and collections are the prime ways to do this in an MMO.

The story should not focus around the player. The player should be a free agent in the world, but not it's focus - That's the schtick of the singleplayer TES games. An MMO can differentiate itself from the singleplayer games by *not* making the player the focus of the game's story. If a focus has to be put on the player, it should be the players as a whole ("free agents", scrolltouched, whatever you want to call it), not a single player.

No zones - the world needs to be REALLY big to accomodate the players. I'm talking Daggerfall size. Incidentally, Daggerwould would actually work really well in this regard due to the procedural generation of stuff. Admittedly harder to pull off in this age with such games, but it would solve a lot of problems.




Instead we get a game that wanted to be called DAoC2 but got a TES title forced on it.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...

Desivo Delta Visseroff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-02-26 22:18:35 UTC
Abyss Azizora wrote:


5. Is a triple wallet dipper. Box price + sub fee + cash shop after launch.



For me, this is the most important point. I'll pass... I'll definitely pay one, I can be coaxed into two for a VERY good game, but three is way too greedy. Will expansions have to be paid for as well?

I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses[:|]..............[:=d]

Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-02-27 00:52:37 UTC
Desivo Delta Visseroff wrote:
Will expansions have to be paid for as well?

That depends. Will they be able to rush out an expansion before ESO goes F2P ?
Guillame Herschel
Buffalo Soldiers
#34 - 2014-02-27 02:04:21 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
Instead we get a game that wanted to be called DAoC2 but got a TES title forced on it.


Is this really surprising? The head of Zenimax Online Studios is Matt Firor, producer of most of Mythic's titles including Dark Age of Camelot.

It was almost impossible for ESO to not become DAoC2.
Frank Millar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2014-02-27 10:44:06 UTC
I'll be over here, waiting for TES VI.
Anonymous Player
Alt Shift Q
#36 - 2014-03-03 01:05:18 UTC
Overall, I am very disappointed by ESO. I would have no problem throwing down $100 for the imperial edition pre-order and paying a monthly sub. If the game was worth it. While I have not been a big follower of the series, I have played a couple of the games, and I loved every aspect, and my biggest "complaint" was always "I wish my brother and I could play this together!" Because of that, I have been looking forward to ESO for a long time (When Ultima Online came out in 1997, I thought that ESO would be the next big online game. Daggerfall was so amazing the year before, and with the graphics and everything that UO had, man, ESO was going to be amazing! The next ES game I played was Morrowind, which was also incredible, but smaller and disappointing in the fact it was single-player.)

The things I want to see in an ESO release:

SIZE - Maybe not Daggerfall, but if they could do it I would throw my money at them like a crazy man.

BUILDING - I want to build houses, castles, TOWNS! UO had most of this 15+ years ago, but you still never see it in today's games. I want the ability to found towns if people are interested in settling there. Have some mechanism where with enough money or enough non-NPCs,you actually have a town where NPCs can start to live as well.

SHOPS - Allow players to buy shop stalls in major cities. They can pay a monthly fee (in game currency) for the stall and have it stocked with basic stuff for whatever type of shop it is (You can pay to have more types of stuff, and also pay to have more valuable stuff to a certain level. They can also list items they have picked up themselves). To have a shop, you need to pay for an NPC shopkeeper.

NPC HELPERS - Speaking of NPC shopkeeper, they are "human" and so can only work 8 hours a day. If you want your shop to have better hours, you can hire additional shopkeepers to work the other shifts. Each town has a limited NPC pool, although the pool can expand, especially as towns reach certain size milestones, but NPCs are at a premium, and their contracts are for limited times, so their cost might go up as the demand increases and supply of NPCs goes down. Other than shopkeepers, I like the idea of being able to staff/arm your own guards. If you allow me to reference WoW, there were many times one faction would raid towns of another faction. There were normal NPC guards, varying by the town in how powerful they were. I would like to see additional guards being hired to protect your own assets, with the ability to upgrade them and provide equipment for them. For instance with WoW, a shop with multiple guards carrying around the Warglaives of Azzinoth, if the owner was a big enough badass... Possible other NPCs would be resource gatherers (abusable if not extremely well thought out) and a "Squire"/sidekick similar to your mercenaries the Diablo world.

WORLD IMPACT - If you walk through a forest enough along the same route, a path will eventually form. If you mine an area, you create a quarry or mine shafts. If you cut enough timber, you can clear a forest. Trees eventually can grow back, but only if they are allowed to. Also, in terms of quests and stuff, I would like to see less of the weekly raid setup, and more of the "once someone kills this dragon it is dead, although another dragon my appear somewhere else soon." Most people don't like having to inform Mankirk his wife is dead, for the 20 millionth time. Anytime a major event happens, have the histories updated so you can go to a library, check out the history and find out that Reiisha and Slade Trillgon killed Amaxsthia the Crimson Dragon on March 17th, 2014 or whatever. Then you can check the lists and find out that Slade is the most prolific dragonslayer in Tamriel, having slain 16 dragons. They don't just respawn, you have to find them. When a dragon appears, maybe rumors start in the nearby areas. They longer a dragon is alive, the farther the rumors travel. A player can follow a string of rumors, getting more and more accurate information (although with rumors, maybe the information leads to a dead end, and you have to back track to find someone with more accurate information...) eventually you can find the dragon and slay it.

NO CLASSES - I enjoy classless RPGs where I can do anything I want. I have a very detailed skill system written down, but am saving it incase I ever get a dev team to listen to me. I can promise it is more groundbreaking and amazing than EVE's system, and makes a lot of sense, while allowing people multiple ways to work up skills.

PACK ANIMALS - I want to have a couple pack horses follow me around so I can carry stuff. Pack horses are susceptible to predators if you don't protect them, and if you don't tie them up they can wander. Finding a pack horse wandering around with 800 pounds of gold coins would make anyone's day brighter, too.


Anyway, those are a few thoughts on my ideal ESO (or even a non-mainstream title) and I would shower the devs of such a game with praise and hard earned money. At the moment, I am going to give ESO a try with it coming out of beta, but whenever the new UO game comes out, it might be better...
Something Random
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2014-03-03 20:10:35 UTC
Seemed ok to me over the last 4 'open' betas

Leveling is a painful slow process, however it will concentrate you at one point to craft and investigate all crafting.
So........ up to level 10 your in the tutorials.

Tell me you didnt have something to do every second of that Beta, and i think that is what is important. It isnt adding an awful lot but its offering massive game territory - and a fresh (to some) window of exploration.

Kinda like it but need to see release material - those Betas you know your working with settled but not final code.

It does have a nice ES feel - and if you sit back and look around it is already awful perdy. I just cant see someone that produces Skyrim sucking in content, unfortunately i lost a day to life and didnt PvP so cant comment.

"caught on fire a little bit, just a little."

"Delinquents, check, weirdos, check, hippies, check, pillheads, check, freaks, check, potheads, check .....gangs all here!"

I love Science, it gives me a Hadron.

Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-03-04 07:49:55 UTC
Astenion wrote:
I'd say the only MMO to get it right in the last few years is The Secret World.


What did TSW get right? As someone who waited for it for years and then got disappointed I'm interested in your view.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies

Kailum Alduin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2014-03-06 00:10:57 UTC
Anonymous Player wrote:
ESO wants.

You might check out Gloria Victis, it feels more like an Elder Scrolls MMO at this point in time even in Alpha; FFA PvP, Classless system, dynamic weather, F2P on release and only vanity items in the cash shop so no p2w, built in Unity 3D by indie devs so money isn't being thrown away. Not sure if player buildings have been discussed but there has been talk of faction-esque warfare, taking over towns and adjusting tax rates to increase a guilds profits.

Currently greenlit on Steam.
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#40 - 2014-03-06 00:30:27 UTC
Just Lilly wrote:
imo, all they had to do, was to release the next game in the series with added
co-op mode for up to 8 players.

Instead of going all out developing a brand new mmo.


It really is this simple. Hell I would be extremely happy with just a two player option. This is all I really ever wanted with the Elder Scrolls games.
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