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What are some actual numbers on current income in nullsec?
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#21 - 2014-03-02 20:01:49 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
Go to Providence and you will be dirt poor. Join Goons and get filthy rich.

What's the big difference? Do goons get special missions or PvE?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2014-03-02 20:07:26 UTC
Agondray wrote:
Null is where I made the most isk for all of the cap ship skills I have. But that also took a while between neuts camping and alliance being a kb ****, being attacked by blues, cta to goon space every day to look tough etc. most of the time I go to null it's to run the market which I end up not doing because if ctas, which is why null secors say they make so little and they have alts in empire to grind missions.

Pretty much this. You can literally make billions a day with a couple of hours of play. You need to NOT be in a blobalition or a blobliance though because of the social / military overheads that come with that.

Make a scout, grab an alt or make one, to fly a tengu or Ishtar, then roam around doing combat sites, ghost sites and get rich.

Additionally the main reason imo, that the blobliance people are in high sec on alts doing missions is to avoid having to CTA rather than that the income is better.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-03-02 20:35:07 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
I
  • Independent mining with a new character, or "ninja-mining" in hostile space
  • Mining with a fully-skilled character and support fleet (boosts etc)
  • Belt ratting with a meta BC setup; belt ratting with a maxed out BS setup
  • Anomalies (different incomes from different anomalies); are sanctums still everyone's favorite?
  • Data/Relic site exploration?
  • Combat site exploration? How common are escalations and finding extremely valuable loot?
  • Industry? Shipping in stuff vs. local manufacturing?
    • \\


    ~Mining I dunno, no one mines ores, ICE is another matter but a lot of that goes down the rabbit hole to fuel POSs
    ~ The guys doing that are running a TON of accounts with rorqual support and whatnot, they have billion in hardware just to get going
    ~belt ratting is crap,
    ~Anoms 13-15 with a HAC or T3, 22-30 with a pimped pirate hull or carrier
    ~data and relics are all over the map depends on how many you find and whats in them, I've made 400mil in a couple hours and I've made 15 min an hour
    ~combat explorating same, PLUS the added aggravation of chasing excalations over literally three regions
    ~local manufacturing = super caps, and that is about it. There are slots if you are building a hull or making ammo, but the nature of player built stations is that they producing in bult is pretty inefficient, before you factor in thousands of
    Kimmi Chan
    Tastes Like Purple
    #24 - 2014-03-02 21:19:07 UTC
    Petrus Blackshell wrote:
    I lived in nullsec a few years ago, so I have some idea on what there is to be done out there, but it never seemed to me to be a huge golden cash-cow. Since I'm not about to abandon my current activities to go check it out myself, I would like to ask you, GD, to give me some figures.

    Note: I don't care how much money an alliance or coalition makes from renting, moon mining, or other such activities. This is a question about personal income of average nullsec residents at varying skill levels.

    Some examples:


    • Independent mining with a new character, or "ninja-mining" in hostile space
    • Mining with a fully-skilled character and support fleet (boosts etc)
    • Belt ratting with a meta BC setup; belt ratting with a maxed out BS setup
    • Anomalies (different incomes from different anomalies); are sanctums still everyone's favorite?
    • Data/Relic site exploration?
    • Combat site exploration? How common are escalations and finding extremely valuable loot?
    • Industry? Shipping in stuff vs. local manufacturing?


    There are probably some things I've missed. I think there's a lot of misinformation (disinformation?) around what those evil mean nullseccers get by puppeteering CCP, so let's set it straight.


    Petrus,

    During one of the Nerf HighSec threads, La Nariz, Stoicfaux, and I did some studies and documented our results. The link below is the data obtained by La Nariz doing Anoms in one of the CFCs systems. I hope this helps with your question.

    La Nariz's Data.

    "Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

    www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
    Petrus Blackshell
    Rifterlings
    #25 - 2014-03-02 22:31:45 UTC
    What is with you people. I am not asking to nerf hisec. Roll If you must know, I was looking to compare it to FW incomes to determine how big the gap is and in what direction it goes at various skill levels. Paranoid people chestbeating about nerfing hisec/nullsec is the cancer that's killing the Eve-O forums. Way to go.

    Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
    Fatal Amelana
    A Blessed Bean
    Pandemic Horde
    #26 - 2014-03-02 22:37:00 UTC


    Independent mining with a new character, or "ninja-mining" in hostile space -> 20-35mil/Hr
    Mining with a fully-skilled character and support fleet (boosts etc) -> 45mil/hr
    Belt ratting with a meta BC setup; belt ratting with a maxed out BS setup -> 12-15 per ticket x3
    Anomalies (different incomes from different anomalies); are sanctums still everyone's favorite? 60-300m/hr
    Data/Relic site exploration? 40-50m/Hr
    Combat site exploration? How common are escalations and finding extremely valuable loot? 1-2 Per day 1-2b Per day
    Industry? Shipping in stuff vs. local manufacturing? Same as highsec.
    Kimmi Chan
    Tastes Like Purple
    #27 - 2014-03-02 22:41:18 UTC
    Petrus Blackshell wrote:
    What is with you people. I am not asking to nerf hisec. Roll If you must know, I was looking to compare it to FW incomes to determine how big the gap is and in what direction it goes at various skill levels. Paranoid people chestbeating about nerfing hisec/nullsec is the cancer that's killing the Eve-O forums. Way to go.


    I was not suggesting that at all. I simply provided that data and gave context to where it originated. I'm paranoid because space is dangerous and it's good to be paranoid.

    "Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

    www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
    Hasikan Miallok
    Republic University
    Minmatar Republic
    #28 - 2014-03-02 22:43:15 UTC
    baltec1 wrote:
    Petrus Blackshell wrote:
    Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
    ~stuff~

    Thanks, dude! That's exactly what I was looking for. Sounds like the biggest, easiest income is from relic sites. How's their spawn rate?


    Random.

    As for the likes of anoms, you are better off in high sec blitzing level 4s. PI is better than everywhere else but mining isn't too hot unless you go for ice, keep your eye on that one. The stockpiles are starting to run out and there is only one way for it to go.


    PI is also in a weird place at the moment.

    Most P4s are selling for less than the component P3s.

    In fact even if you need the P4s for your own production lines you are better off selling the P3 mats and buying someone elses P4 with the proceeds.
    Kaarous Aldurald
    Black Hydra Consortium.
    #29 - 2014-03-02 22:47:32 UTC
    Petrus Blackshell wrote:
    What is with you people. I am not asking to nerf hisec. Roll If you must know, I was looking to compare it to FW incomes to determine how big the gap is and in what direction it goes at various skill levels. Paranoid people chestbeating about nerfing hisec/nullsec is the cancer that's killing the Eve-O forums. Way to go.


    FW wins, at pretty much any level of skills for income. As far as I am aware, the FW numbers can be exceeded only by a good C5 or C6 wormhole, and even then it's more or less a group activity that requires capital ships.

    FW, one account, one decently skilled bomber, 150-200 million an hour. Easily. 150 is if you don't even bother optimizing your route and/or you have to go hide a lot. You can get to about 230mil/hr if you go in right after downtime. Especially Winmatar, their missions are deucedly easy since their rats only have tracking disruptors for ewar, which doesn't effect stealth bombers at all. (why that hasn't been fixed, I'll never know)

    "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

    One of ours, ten of theirs.

    Best Meltdown Ever.
    Arkady Romanov
    Whole Squid
    #30 - 2014-03-03 00:16:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkady Romanov
    Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
    Please, for the sake of all that is good in the world, not another thread about income levels.
    Can we stop with the propaganda wars for a couple weeks?

    CCP has the numbers, so the forum wars are pointless.
    But if you do want to get into it, consider this: the failed lawyer in his last message to his minions was exhorting every member of goons to get into a Titan, or failing that, a supercap. Guess they don't seem to have a problem with income.



    Hey! Hate to interrupt your tinfoil ramblings but I'd like to add a little context to this.

    As a rider to Mitten's call to get people into supers/titans to try to hold and increase the advantage over other coalitions in EVE, some information was posted as to how you can make money as an EVE player. Shock and horror, of all the suggested ways of going about it, only 2 were nullsec specific;

    ratting and running moongoo reactions.


    All the others were lowsec or hisec alt strategies.

    edit: oops, I forgot exploration and the (very niche) capital ship industry.

    Whole Squid: Get Inked.
    Mario Putzo
    #31 - 2014-03-03 00:31:44 UTC
    Petrus Blackshell wrote:
    Erotica 1 wrote:
    Go to Providence and you will be dirt poor. Join Goons and get filthy rich.

    What's the big difference? Do goons get special missions or PvE?


    Providence space has lots of people active in the space, so there is lots of competition. As for GSF and CFC space by extension, there are more LowSec folks competing for sites than any of the null guys. Essentially you can pick a constellation and loop through it without any competition. CFC space is pretty much empty. by comparison.
    Tauranon
    Weeesearch
    CAStabouts
    #32 - 2014-03-03 04:15:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
    Onictus wrote:


    ~Anoms 13-15 with a HAC or T3, 22-30 with a pimped pirate hull or carrier



    19-21 ishtar for me (gurista). Can average 26m with a domi alternating forlorn hub and forsaken rally point. Best tick (no faction spawns), 29m, worst ticks down around 22m if you get jammed in the jamming spawn in the forlorn hub. Note that is in the worst possible band of nullsec. presuming it works in the sanctum (it should if it can tank the forlorn hub), it should be pretty close on 28-29m ticks.

    Quote:


    ~data and relics are all over the map depends on how many you find and whats in them, I've made 400mil in a couple hours and I've made 15 min an hour


    I think the pro's just scan and leave looking for tower bpcs. I clear my system of them when they are up, and they at worst seem to do ~10m for 15 minutes (bad data spawn). Most of the time the sites themselves are much, much better than that.

    Quote:


    ~combat explorating same, PLUS the added aggravation of chasing excalations over literally three regions



    I ignore most unrateds, and so do the russian gypsies coming through to steal mah content. They also ignore FSPs which is pretty telling.
    baltec1
    Bat Country
    Pandemic Horde
    #33 - 2014-03-03 05:30:50 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
    Fatal Amelana wrote:


    Independent mining with a new character, or "ninja-mining" in hostile space -> 20-35mil/Hr
    Mining with a fully-skilled character and support fleet (boosts etc) -> 45mil/hr
    Belt ratting with a meta BC setup; belt ratting with a maxed out BS setup -> 12-15 per ticket x3
    Anomalies (different incomes from different anomalies); are sanctums still everyone's favorite? 60-300m/hr
    Data/Relic site exploration? 40-50m/Hr
    Combat site exploration? How common are escalations and finding extremely valuable loot? 1-2 Per day 1-2b Per day
    Industry? Shipping in stuff vs. local manufacturing? Same as highsec.


    You will never see 300 mil/hr from anoms. That income only happened with titan ratting which was nerfed into the ground.
    90 mil/hr is about as good as it gets with a pimp ship.
    Industry wise there is only supercap production and fuel blocks. Everything else is cheaper to just import from highsec.
    Onictus
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #34 - 2014-03-03 05:44:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
    Tauranon wrote:

    19-21 ishtar for me (gurista). Can average 26m with a domi alternating forlorn hub and forsaken rally point. Best tick (no faction spawns), 29m, worst ticks down around 22m if you get jammed in the jamming spawn in the forlorn hub. Note that is in the worst possible band of nullsec. presuming it works in the sanctum (it should if it can tank the forlorn hub), it should be pretty close on 28-29m ticks.


    I have serpentis, 16mil is a good tick with the Ishtar, I can get that up around 30 with a pair of Domi's but its a damn near guaranteed hot drop.


    Tauranon wrote:

    I think the pro's just scan and leave looking for tower bpcs. I clear my system of them when they are up, and they at worst seem to do ~10m for 15 minutes (bad data spawn). Most of the time the sites themselves are much, much better than that.


    I've yet to see a tower, but there are some tasty skill books that drop


    Tauranon wrote:

    I ignore most unrateds, and so do the russian gypsies coming through to steal mah content. They also ignore FSPs which is pretty telling.


    That is the rated escalations, otherwise <8/10 I'm not loading up and bringing back a combat ship, unrated sites are a lot of work for a tag and another 1000 rounds of useless ass SS Iron.
    Rashnu Gorbani
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #35 - 2014-03-03 12:21:16 UTC
    At some point I made about 100m isk per hour in anomalies with 2 characters - domi and raven - good skills, simple t2 fits. Provided that I didn't chat much and payed attention to being efficient.
    There could be better combinations, depends a lot on the rat type too, perhaps 2x shield tanked Ishtar could do better, I did not experiment much.

    I now just make isk in hisec, not to avoid CTAs, it's just similar efficiency and I don't have to deal with afk cloakers, random roams, occasional territorial fights etc. not to mention the 2 being unrelated offers more safety (if I can't rat in 0.0 i can still make isk in hisec, or vice versa).

    I didn't do enough exploration to actually count the isk/hr but I do it quite regularly just not as only means of making isk. It's a nice, quite safe, and comfortable way of making isk especially if you have an alt for it. You log on and off pretty much whenever you want, wherever you want, no more 'just a couple more waves to kill even if I'm falling asleep at the keyboard'.
    Sura Sadiva
    Entropic Tactical Crew
    #36 - 2014-03-03 13:02:19 UTC
    Petrus Blackshell wrote:
    Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
    ~stuff~

    Thanks, dude! That's exactly what I was looking for. Sounds like the biggest, easiest income is from relic sites. How's their spawn rate?


    I earn roughly 200 mils/hour in cov op frigate with data/relic sites in null. Spawns are hardly a problem, people there tend to stay in their home systems so exoploration sites are mostly untouched.
    E-2C Hawkeye
    HOW to PEG SAFETY
    #37 - 2014-03-03 14:18:39 UTC
    Petrus Blackshell wrote:
    What is with you people. I am not asking to nerf hisec. Roll If you must know, I was looking to compare it to FW incomes to determine how big the gap is and in what direction it goes at various skill levels. Paranoid people chestbeating about nerfing hisec/nullsec is the cancer that's killing the Eve-O forums. Way to go.

    Stick with FW Big smile
    Influence Powers
    Red Sky Morning
    The Amarr Militia.
    #38 - 2014-03-03 15:50:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Influence Powers
    This thread has me more interested in exploration. Would some one be so kind to give me a simple what's what etc. What are the skills needed and the suggest lvl. Type of ship and general equipment needed. And if you so feel inclinded a simple process over view.example.

    scan with probe,
    move to found location.
    Do what ever,
    ?????????
    profit.

    Wait... I was supposed to bring sexy back?!?!
    Batelle
    Federal Navy Academy
    #39 - 2014-03-03 15:57:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
    Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
    Please, for the sake of all that is good in the world, not another thread about income levels.
    Can we stop with the propaganda wars for a couple weeks?


    I whole-heartedly agree.

    Onictus wrote:
    Tauranon wrote:

    19-21 ishtar for me (gurista). Can average 26m with a domi alternating forlorn hub and forsaken rally point. Best tick (no faction spawns), 29m, worst ticks down around 22m if you get jammed in the jamming spawn in the forlorn hub. Note that is in the worst possible band of nullsec. presuming it works in the sanctum (it should if it can tank the forlorn hub), it should be pretty close on 28-29m ticks.


    I have serpentis, 16mil is a good tick with the Ishtar, I can get that up around 30 with a pair of Domi's but its a damn near guaranteed hot drop.


    Hot drops for t2-fit ishtars and domis is just sad. But its what the game has come to.

    Onictus wrote:

    Tauranon wrote:

    I think the pro's just scan and leave looking for tower bpcs. I clear my system of them when they are up, and they at worst seem to do ~10m for 15 minutes (bad data spawn). Most of the time the sites themselves are much, much better than that.


    I've yet to see a tower, but there are some tasty skill books that drop

    No, there aren't. Unless you're talking combat ladar.

    "**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

    Never forget.
    Khanh'rhh
    Sparkle Motion.
    #40 - 2014-03-03 17:31:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
    Petrus Blackshell wrote:
    Erotica 1 wrote:
    Go to Providence and you will be dirt poor. Join Goons and get filthy rich.

    What's the big difference? Do goons get special missions or PvE?

    The guy is a bad troll and all around weird guy. He's trolling.

    As for your OP, some very rough numbers:

    - Independent mining with a new character
    - Mining with a fully-skilled character and support fleet

    60-120mil an hour (ice mining) depending on ship, boosts, etc.

    - Belt ratting with a meta BC setup; belt ratting with a maxed out BS setup

    Might cover your ammo cost. Don't bother

    - Anomalies (different incomes from different anomalies); are sanctums still everyone's favorite?

    Hubs are mostly preferred, varies by space. ~70-80mil an hour. 30-40mil an hour over time if your space isn't upgraded, as the sites run out.

    - Data/Relic site exploration?

    People who have been running these for a while, state something like 100mil an hour once they have themselves optimized. I guess it's about the same as anoms over time, but with less startup cost and risk.

    - Combat site exploration? How common are escalations and finding extremely valuable loot?

    It's a jackpot or nothing thing, really. If you're lucky, you might get something like 300-500mil over 2 to 3 hours if you find and run some top ends. People tend to ignore the down-time inherent in the activity, and celebrate running a single site for 500mil. It's a valid way of looking at it if you're so inclined. If you have one hour to play and want to min/max, then ignore that logic.

    - Industry? Shipping in stuff vs. local manufacturing?

    Never worth it, unfortunately. Supplying capitals / supercapitals is an exception, though the materials are shipped in.

    If you want to make a lot of money in 0.0, you mostly want to grind up the capital and go into reaction farms. It's a "making your money work for you" thing. Market games / trading scales well. Ice mining scales linearly with multiboxing, so can be very lucrative to multiboxers.

    If you're looking to start as a newer player and gain money fast, wormholes or FW are much better personal income. Many Goons do this on alts, and we have all the best space in the game.

    "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,