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Orca fitting
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Edward Espinueva
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-03-01 20:15:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Edward Espinueva
I was searching for orca fits and I see a lot of posts saying for a solid starter fit is 3 vulnerability fields + a Damage Control. I was wondering why not 4 vulnerability fields + Damage Control? New-Pilot here :)
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-03-01 20:24:31 UTC
Stacking Penalty.


When you fit more and more Items with the same effect new items get a heavy penalty to their stats reducing the effect of additional modules.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
Edward Espinueva
Doomheim
#3 - 2014-03-01 21:45:08 UTC
Ah thanks. I guess a MWD for the 4th mid to help warping away faster.
george harries
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-03-01 21:51:59 UTC
Reinforced Bulkhead 2 and a Damage Control 2 gives over 200k EHP at Level 5 - you can make this higher with shield mods and rigs if you like ...like everything else there is compromise - more cargo space less EHP and vice versa - so depends on what you are using the orca for and where.....
Edward Espinueva
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-03-01 22:12:37 UTC
george harries wrote:
Reinforced Bulkhead 2 and a Damage Control 2 gives over 200k EHP at Level 5 - you can make this higher with shield mods and rigs if you like ...like everything else there is compromise - more cargo space less EHP and vice versa - so depends on what you are using the orca for and where.....


For the moment, in High-Sec as a Booster. So I'm guessing no need to flee (so no need for MWD) and simply outlast the Burst DPS onslaught until Concord arrives?
Edward Espinueva
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-03-01 22:22:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Edward Espinueva
george harries wrote:
Reinforced Bulkhead 2 and a Damage Control 2 gives over 200k EHP at Level 5 - you can make this higher with shield mods and rigs if you like ...like everything else there is compromise - more cargo space less EHP and vice versa - so depends on what you are using the orca for and where.....


Atm I have fitted Adaptive Invulnerability Field I x3, F85 Peripheral Damage Control I, and Reinforced Bulkhead I. All Is cause I'm still working on getting Forman Link Is on. At least its defense is set. Once the links are on I'll focus on getting IIs to secure the ORCA.
Dan Rae
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-03-01 22:26:16 UTC
Edward Espinueva wrote:
george harries wrote:
Reinforced Bulkhead 2 and a Damage Control 2 gives over 200k EHP at Level 5 - you can make this higher with shield mods and rigs if you like ...like everything else there is compromise - more cargo space less EHP and vice versa - so depends on what you are using the orca for and where.....


For the moment, in High-Sec as a Booster. So I'm guessing no need to flee (so no need for MWD) and simply outlast the Burst DPS onslaught until Concord arrives?




You can't fit a MWD to an Orca without using rigs for power grid. Even then, your max velocity will only be 275ms with all appropriate skills at 5.

If I were looking at an Orca and were worried about ganks, I would probably fit like this:

[Orca, Tanky]

Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

EM Ward Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Large Core Defense Field Extender II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II


Salvage Drone I x5
Hammerhead II x5

Whatever links you are trained for/will benefit your operation the most can be fit in the high slots. You could also fit a cloak, tractor beam etc etc.

It's 287k EHP total. (All V char)
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2014-03-01 22:41:22 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Here's something I used to use...

[Orca, BRICK]
Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II
Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization II
Mining Foreman Link - Mining Laser Field Enhancement II

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I

Hornet EC-300 x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Mining Drone I x5

Stats (with level 5 skills) and notes:
- around 280,000 effective hitpoints
- using Hobgoblins it can dish about 95 dps (for killing pesky NPC frigates)
- capacitor stable at around 66%
- can hold about 37,000 m3 of general cargo + 40,000 m3 in the fleet hanger + 50,000 m3 of ore.
- the warfare link is there to increase the survival of your miner buddies... it's usually better than the mining link that decreases capacitor need for mining lasers.
- keep the ECM drones out as much as possible and set for "Aggressive"... if someone tries to gank you they will automatically attack and hopefully jam out some damage.

- you can swap out the Reinforced Bulkhead for a Cargo Expander, reducing your EHP to ~215,000
OR
- you can swap out one Invulnerability Field for a Survey Scanner, reducing your EHP to ~260,000
OR
- you can do both of the above, reducing your EHP to ~190,000

How did you Veterans start?
Edward Espinueva
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-03-01 23:27:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Edward Espinueva
Thanks you two. I'm going to combine both your setups for a solid basic layout when I eventually get the skills to fit it. +1 to both of you for your assistance :)

ORCA
(Recommended by both)
Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

(Recommended by ShahFluffers)
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

(Position in fleet will dictate these slots)
[Empty High slot] x3

(Recommended by Dan Rae)
Large Core Defense Field Extender II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II

(Position in fleet will dictate these slots)
[Empty Drones] x15
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#10 - 2014-03-02 00:43:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
I should point out one last thing...

None of these fits, no matter how tanky, will ensure your survival in a suicide gank and will most certainly not save you if your Orca pilot is caught up in a war dec.

In the former case (suicide ganking) it will just make your ship significantly harder and more troublesome to nuke... which will hopefully make such people choose a more "squishy" target. However, if you overload your ship with sufficiently valuable things (see: value that equals or exceeds the cost it would take to gank your ship) then all bets are off.

In the latter case (War dec), having a large tank will just stall the inevitable. The Orca is NOT a combat ship and can possibly be killed by mere Frigate... it will simply take awhile.
The best way to be safe is to GTFO whenever a hostile enters the system you are in (by checking pilot list in Local chat) and/or have your miners ready to pull out combat ships from the Orca (from the ship Maintenance Bay). I suggest Griffins loaded with ECM mods.


edit: also FYI... those Tech 2 rigs are ungodly expensive for a mere 5% extra shields each.

How did you Veterans start?
Edward Espinueva
Doomheim
#11 - 2014-03-02 02:33:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Edward Espinueva
ShahFluffers wrote:
I should point out one last thing...

None of these fits, no matter how tanky, will ensure your survival in a suicide gank and will most certainly not save you if your Orca pilot is caught up in a war dec.

In the former case (suicide ganking) it will just make your ship significantly harder and more troublesome to nuke... which will hopefully make such people choose a more "squishy" target. However, if you overload your ship with sufficiently valuable things (see: value that equals or exceeds the cost it would take to gank your ship) then all bets are off.

In the latter case (War dec), having a large tank will just stall the inevitable. The Orca is NOT a combat ship and can possibly be killed by mere Frigate... it will simply take awhile.
The best way to be safe is to GTFO whenever a hostile enters the system you are in (by checking pilot list in Local chat) and/or have your miners ready to pull out combat ships from the Orca (from the ship Maintenance Bay). I suggest Griffins loaded with ECM mods.


edit: also FYI... those Tech 2 rigs are ungodly expensive for a mere 5% extra shields each.


Yup. Well the goal in high-sec when faced with suicide ganking would be just to outlast the enemy until Concord arrives, unless I've contracted mercenaries for escort duty before hand. But definitely for low-sec mercenary escorts will be standard. Yes even contracting mercenaries runs the risk of double-dealing, but moving operations into low-sec is a distance away anyway. So until then best I can do to prevent that is to form solid trustworthiness with a mercenary company or two now.

As to the expense of the T2 rigs in question. Already have it. I just need the skills. Won't be able to fit it until next month I believe, lol. But at least I'll have the T1s on soon until then.

As for war decs... how does a corporation get pulled into it even if one has done nothing wrong? Is it like setting bounties, you can do it to anyone out of the blue?
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#12 - 2014-03-02 06:40:21 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Edward Espinueva wrote:
Yup. Well the goal in high-sec when faced with suicide ganking would be just to outlast the enemy until Concord arrives, unless I've contracted mercenaries for escort duty before hand. But definitely for low-sec mercenary escorts will be standard. Yes even contracting mercenaries runs the risk of double-dealing, but moving operations into low-sec is a distance away anyway. So until then best I can do to prevent that is to form solid trustworthiness with a mercenary company or two now.

To be perfectly frank... mining in low-sec is only marginally more profitable than mining in high-sec. Sometimes you will find some nice ore deposits in certain spacial sites... but not much else.

Moreover... you cannot pay any merc enough ISK to defend your mining ops in a dedicated sense (i.e. you won't be able to get people to sit with you and shoo off attackers). It is extremely boring work and mercs would rather be shooting things.

And speaking as someone who sometimes mines in low-sec (mostly for giggles and lol-baiting)... your best defense is to simply avoid confrontation in any mining ship unless you have PvP-fit everything and plan to spring a trap against dumb people (which is funny until said people come back in force).

Edward Espinueva wrote:
As for war decs... how does a corporation get pulled into it even if one has done nothing wrong? Is it like setting bounties, you can do it to anyone out of the blue?

More or less. You don't have to do anything wrong. If someone is feeling cheeky AND has the ISK to pay the fees (50 million ISK starting + additional an 5 (?) million per corp member after 50 members... all of which doubles for each week the war is active), they can declare war on your corporation for as long as they want and engage with impunity.

How did you Veterans start?
Fregonesi86 Joringer
True Terraners
#13 - 2014-03-02 07:06:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Fregonesi86 Joringer
almost 300m isk of rigs Big smile

just use tech 1 rigs and keep a eye on local, plus set orca align to some close station to warp out when ganker arrive
Dan Rae
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-03-02 10:15:48 UTC
Fregonesi86 Joringer wrote:
almost 300m isk of rigs Big smile

just use tech 1 rigs and keep a eye on local, plus set orca align to some close station to warp out when ganker arrive


I would have to agree with this tbh, I didn't realise that those rigs cost so much. It all just adds to your gank worthyness.

T1 Rigs, align, etc.
Edward Espinueva
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-03-02 13:57:45 UTC
Fregonesi86 Joringer wrote:
almost 300m isk of rigs Big smile

just use tech 1 rigs and keep a eye on local, plus set orca align to some close station to warp out when ganker arrive


T1 rigs accomplished then, hurray that's one less thing on my to do list :)
Edward Espinueva
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-03-02 15:59:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Edward Espinueva
ShahFluffers wrote:
Edward Espinueva wrote:
Yup. Well the goal in high-sec when faced with suicide ganking would be just to outlast the enemy until Concord arrives, unless I've contracted mercenaries for escort duty before hand. But definitely for low-sec mercenary escorts will be standard. Yes even contracting mercenaries runs the risk of double-dealing, but moving operations into low-sec is a distance away anyway. So until then best I can do to prevent that is to form solid trustworthiness with a mercenary company or two now.

To be perfectly frank... mining in low-sec is only marginally more profitable than mining in high-sec. Sometimes you will find some nice ore deposits in certain spacial sites... but not much else.

Moreover... you cannot pay any merc enough ISK to defend your mining ops in a dedicated sense (i.e. you won't be able to get people to sit with you and shoo off attackers). It is extremely boring work and mercs would rather be shooting things.

And speaking as someone who sometimes mines in low-sec (mostly for giggles and lol-baiting)... your best defense is to simply avoid confrontation in any mining ship unless you have PvP-fit everything and plan to spring a trap against dumb people (which is funny until said people come back in force).

Edward Espinueva wrote:
As for war decs... how does a corporation get pulled into it even if one has done nothing wrong? Is it like setting bounties, you can do it to anyone out of the blue?

More or less. You don't have to do anything wrong. If someone is feeling cheeky AND has the ISK to pay the fees (50 million ISK starting + additional an 5 (?) million per corp member after 50 members... all of which doubles for each week the war is active), they can declare war on your corporation for as long as they want and engage with impunity.


The main reasons for eventually moving operations to low/null-sec are 1. The ORE theme. 2. Mining will get tedious in hi-sec so the heightened danger present in low/null-sec would alleviate the monotony, even inject excitement and a sense of adventure. But without protection this endeavor would not come to fruit. So to give mercs more shooting and less boring one would need to make the targets they would be protecting very enticing, right? Well a hi-sec mining fleet would entail 56 ORCAs. A Low/null-sec mining fleet would entail 50 ORCAs and 6 Rorqauls. Even if you break that down it would still be 10 ORCAs and a Ror per wing or 2 ORCAs per squadron.

Payment for mercs would be a contract fee based on ship composition and size: squadron, wing, fleet. Mercs with no standing with us start off with 25% up front and 75% after OP is done while those with high standing (aka those who have consistently shown to honor their contract) will get 100% up front. In addition to the normal loot/wreck rights they recieve, bonus ISK per kill is given depending on the kill's size: frigate, destroyer, etc. This is just a general overview other ideas will be implemented. However, if this does not provide a good incentive for protection then I guess hi-sec is where we shall stay.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#17 - 2014-03-02 17:22:31 UTC
Dan Rae wrote:

You can't fit a MWD to an Orca without using rigs for power grid. Even then, your max velocity will only be 275ms with all appropriate skills at 5.

An implant can fix the PG issue, and the point of fitting a MWD is not to get to 275m/s it's because after one 10s cycle (Turn Auto-repeat off) an 'non-bumped' orca will go into warp instantly after the cycle completes.

That's worth a lot more than the one additional Talos a gank squad would need to pop it with marginally higher shield resists.

But if your Bumped, it's all over except the crying, they will always bring more than enough DPS to pop an orca if your carrying more than 2ish billion.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#18 - 2014-03-02 17:43:55 UTC
Edward Espinueva wrote:
The main reasons for eventually moving operations to low/null-sec are 1. The ORE theme. 2. Mining will get tedious in hi-sec so the heightened danger present in low/null-sec would alleviate the monotony, even inject excitement and a sense of adventure. But without protection this endeavor would not come to fruit. So to give mercs more shooting and less boring one would need to make the targets they would be protecting very enticing, right?

Some friendly advice... join a low-sec PvP corporation for a small while and learn how they operate (what better way to avoid hunters than to learn how the hunters operate?).
The reason I give this advice is because you seem to have little understanding how actual combat works and why mercs will largely be useless in a mining operation.

Edward Espinueva wrote:
Well a hi-sec mining fleet would entail 56 ORCAs. A Low/null-sec mining fleet would entail 50 ORCAs and 6 Rorqauls. Even if you break that down it would still be 10 ORCAs and a Ror per wing or 2 ORCAs per squadron.

Why in god's name would you need 56 Orcas???? Oh wait... let me guess... you think you can actually mine with these ships?

Beyond mining drones, Orcas do not have the capacity to mine asteroids as they cannot fit mining lasers of any kind. The Orca is a Support Ship... the paired-down, high-sec version of the Rorqual. You will need Mining Barges and Exhumers to eat up the asteriods.

How did you Veterans start?
Edward Espinueva
Doomheim
#19 - 2014-03-02 18:46:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Edward Espinueva
ShahFluffers wrote:
Edward Espinueva wrote:
The main reasons for eventually moving operations to low/null-sec are 1. The ORE theme. 2. Mining will get tedious in hi-sec so the heightened danger present in low/null-sec would alleviate the monotony, even inject excitement and a sense of adventure. But without protection this endeavor would not come to fruit. So to give mercs more shooting and less boring one would need to make the targets they would be protecting very enticing, right?

Some friendly advice... join a low-sec PvP corporation for a small while and learn how they operate (what better way to avoid hunters than to learn how the hunters operate?).
The reason I give this advice is because you seem to have little understanding how actual combat works and why mercs will largely be useless in a mining operation.

Edward Espinueva wrote:
Well a hi-sec mining fleet would entail 56 ORCAs. A Low/null-sec mining fleet would entail 50 ORCAs and 6 Rorqauls. Even if you break that down it would still be 10 ORCAs and a Ror per wing or 2 ORCAs per squadron.

Why in god's name would you need 56 Orcas???? Oh wait... let me guess... you think you can actually mine with these ships?

Beyond mining drones, Orcas do not have the capacity to mine asteroids as they cannot fit mining lasers of any kind. The Orca is a Support Ship... the paired-down, high-sec version of the Rorqual. You will need Mining Barges and Exhumers to eat up the asteriods.


Oh sorry I should have been more detailed. Hi-sec: 2 ORCAs (booster and a hauler) + 8 miners per squadron. 250 ships. The remaining 6 are ORCAs flown by the wing commanders and fleet commander. For low/null sec Its the same setup except that the remaining 6 are the Rorquals flown by wing commanders and fleet commander.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#20 - 2014-03-03 00:33:17 UTC
You can have 1 Orca boost an entire fleet by placing it as the "Wing Commander" over the squads (it doesn't have to be the fleet leader, anyone can be that regardless of their place in the fleet hierarchy).

All that is needed to keep the boosts applied to everyone is to have a "Squad Commander" (below the "Wing Commander" position) and another squad member below him/her on field.

Or... if your fleet has less than 10 people in it... you can put the Orca as the "Squad Commander" position and have everyone else in the same squad.


As for hauling... 1 regular hauler can do the job quite nicely (and much cheaper and quicker too). I hear nice things about the Kryos (base ~40,000 m3 of ore space).

How did you Veterans start?
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