Player Features and Ideas Discussion

When Retribution 1.1 was released, players were finally given an official method of hi-sec dueling in lieu of of can flipping. The banner given to dueling by CCP was "A proper 1 on 1 for the modern pilot." The idea of dueling is not to eliminate risk of losing your ship or even your pod, but to create an avenue for players to be able to choose their engagements and to know what they kind of fight they are getting into, which would be a nice alternative to engagements in low or null sec space where you may be tricked into thinking you have a fair engagement only to have a fleet warp in on you.

Problem #1: Contrary to the advertised premise of an "honorable duel" between two (or more if multiple simultaneous duels are accepted) pilots, players may bring in assistance via logistical support and thus destroying any chance of a fair fight. I think the dueling system would really benefit from upgrading the suspect flag given to outsider who provides RR in a duel to a criminal flag. As the current dueling system stands, someone can RR in a battleship and gain suspect status, but most likely no third party observer will attack a battleship.

Problem #2: A far more common issue with the current dueling system's premise of a "fair fight" come from the ability of pilots to dock after accepting a duel. This leads to two common abuses. The first is that pilots will issue a duel and once their target accepts, they immediately dock and then quickly undock in a completely different (and often much larger and/or more expensive) ship and then proceed to quickly destroy the unsuspecting pilot who thought he or she as agreeing to a duel with so-called even odds. The second, less grievous way pilots abuse the ability to dock with an active duel is that they will agree to a duel and engage, but once the fight tips against their favor, they will wait out the combat timer and then simply dock.

Obviously, there is basically no such thing as an actual "fair" fight with perfectly even odds of each side winning or losing. I'm not asking for that. If one or both sides are in fleets with OGB's, so be it. Perhaps look up the other side's corp/alliance info or kb's first if you're worried about that. Perhaps one side has a super shiney fit or a really unusual fit and you never stood a chance with your fit. Such is the nature of Eve. But the idea of a duel is that you can agree to a fight and when you agree you have a general idea of what you're getting yourself into. If any number of people can join one side of a duel in the form of remote repping, then there's not much of a point to dueling besides stuffing the killboards in the case of the side with the logi.

My proposed solution for problem 1 is to simply make any logistical support illegal unless a duel request has been issued by the logistical pilot and accepted by the enemy pilot. This would allow the opposing pilot to know what he's getting into and also for him or her to retaliate! I think is solution is very intuitive and I"m at a loss as to why this isn't the way dueling was from the start. A second option would be to allow logistical support without permission from the opposing pilot(s), but then to allow the opposing pilot(s) to retaliate against the ship providing logistical support as soon as aid is given to an opposing pilot in a duel. I think this second option is by far less preferable, but I wanted to give more than one solution.

My proposed solution to problem 2 would be to start a combat timer as soon as a duel is accepted, making it impossible for a dishonorable duelist to dock and return with a larger ship. A second solution would be to immediately end the duel when one or more pilots dock. Again I like the first option better. As far as stopping pilots from waiting out the combat timer and docking when the tide turns against them...I"m not so sure this needs to be fixed. Waiting out the combat timer does give the other pilot ample time to destroy you before you dock.

Please let me know what you think and I welcome any and all additional ideas for solutions for making the honorable dueling system a little more honorable!

-Gori Thane

Thank you for pointing our my error, Tippia. I did go back and examine that thread. With my instance there must have been a bug. However, the entirety of my post did not rely on my mistake of thinking that there was no suspect flag for RRing someone in a duel. First, I do think that upgrading a suspect flag to a criminal flag would improve the dueling system. Secondly, the 2nd problem I mentioned is not affected at all by my misunderstanding of the suspect flag for RRing as RRing has nothing to do it it.

Canflip fights were never fair. Why would duels be any fairer than their canflip-fight ancestors?

Here we go again

i hear fw is great for 1v1's. u dnt have to join fw, just hang around that space.

if u find ppl who are honourable within the sandbox, great. but eve is about the ultimate freedom of being anything u want, even unhonourable, anywhere at anytime. creating mechanics that mean ur opponent can not be dishonourable is yet another un-sandbox, themepark, safety system eve can do without.

edit-
imagine if the mechanic u want was introduced. ppl who want 1v1's would have a guaranteed way to 1v1. and those that want to use underhanded tactics will say 'nah, lets just do a typical duel'. it becomes pretty obvious, and completely defeats the point of being underhanded and sneaky. so there is no point where ur thinking: is he going to honour this, or is he going to screw me over. which is the very fun that is eve.

Exactly, Your Dad Naked (wow what a great name). I think there should be a, as in just ONE, method of being able to get an assured 1v1 versus a stranger. That would provide a valuable way to practice combat for new players, solo players, or players who don't always want to wait for a corpmate to log on and be available.

If you want the excitement of knowing that your opponent can bring in superior forces and wipe you out, ultimately that is what all of lowsec and nullsec is for. Even high sec wars can give you that. But currently there is not even one option for a guaranteed 1v1. It's not like there wouldn't be any risk in a guaranteed 1v1, you can always loose your ship and even your pod. I seriously think it would add a lot more to the game than it would harm it to have a solitary way to get a good old one versus one.

While this game is known being realistic for having risk in everything, it is still just a game. Games are for people to have fun. If a lot of people would have fun with a way to have a guaranteed 1v1, then why not add that option? If you think it's fun to fight in an arena where unfair fights are possible and abound, go everywhere else in Eve. =)

P.S. It's not as if garunteed duels would be adding a risk-free aspect of Eve and thus going against the game's founding principle! These duels are to the DEATH! haha

EVE is everywhere in EVE. If you change this, you will break it.

You just have to duel in the right places. Come to Dodixie, the place where neutral Logi gets blapped.

In addition to not requiring can flips to activate aggression, CCP changed the already existing system to make it easier for friends to join in and make the fight unfair.

OP, I think you've the wrong idea of what CCP considers balanced.