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Found the FW fix
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Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-11-28 14:12:31 UTC
Patch Notes wrote:

Fixed an issue where Factional Warfare systems would run out of combat sites. ‘Outpost’ sites of all sizes will now respawn every 30 minutes in all Factional Warfare systems.


/me does backflips of joy

TY TY TY TY THANK YOU CCP

I has all the eve inactivity
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#2 - 2011-11-28 14:13:10 UTC
Lol

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Alara IonStorm
#3 - 2011-11-28 14:15:14 UTC
I had the same thought.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#4 - 2011-11-28 15:28:31 UTC
Hoorraaaayyy!!!!!!


Now, if only we could get them to fix all of the other problems with FW...

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-11-28 15:33:26 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Hoorraaaayyy!!!!!!


Now, if only we could get them to fix all of the other problems with FW...


We knew we were only getting one fix to fw this patch, and I personally am ecstatic that this is what got changed.

Almost all of the proposed fixes to fw needed this (meaningful sov, pvp focused around plexing etc), and without the spawn fixing none of them were realizable. A few threads illustrated how this might be a programming nightmare, I am very pleased to see CCP's solution to it.

I has all the eve inactivity
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2011-11-28 15:40:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Dont know anything about FW.

But if its good.

I ll wait for Hans review for that.

In other hand i take its sarcasm..
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#7 - 2011-11-28 15:49:18 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
...Now, if only we could get them to fix all of the other the actual problems with FW...

Corrected that for you, an error snuck itself in before you posted.

They are throwing a Wunderbaum™ at a manure pile to mask the stench. It will do absolutely nothing for the war in general other than give the alt swarm something to do 23/7.

Systems will probably flip constantly though and people can gain standings even faster, I reckon CCP considers that a sign of a healthy dynamic feature regardless of how it is done or by whom it is done. If this is what was meant by "something to shake things up" then I fear there is nothing more to be done in the crusade to make FW worthwhile as far as I am concerned.

That single line is to me proof positive that they have not only abandoned FW but have managed to get rid of any people that might have a clue as to what and how FW functions.

Humbug I say.

PS: I shall henceforth devote my forum time to get the damnable projectiles nerfed back a bit.




Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-11-28 15:59:26 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
...Now, if only we could get them to fix all of the other the actual problems with FW...

Corrected that for you, an error snuck itself in before you posted.

They are throwing a Wunderbaum™ at a manure pile to mask the stench. It will do absolutely nothing for the war in general other than give the alt swarm something to do 23/7.

Systems will probably flip constantly though and people can gain standings even faster, I reckon CCP considers that a sign of a healthy dynamic feature regardless of how it is done or by whom it is done. If this is what was meant by "something to shake things up" then I fear there is nothing more to be done in the crusade to make FW worthwhile as far as I am concerned.

That single line is to me proof positive that they have not only abandoned FW but have managed to get rid of any people that might have a clue as to what and how FW functions.

Humbug I say.

PS: I shall henceforth devote my forum time to get the damnable projectiles nerfed back a bit.






despite the bittervet ringing though the majority of your recent posts, you have to admit that without this change almost 100% of the grandiose changes suggested for fw would be meaningless.

I has all the eve inactivity
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#9 - 2011-11-28 16:04:47 UTC
Quote:
Corrected that for you, an error snuck itself in before you posted.

They are throwing a Wunderbaum™ at a manure pile to mask the stench. It will do absolutely nothing for the war in general other than give the alt swarm something to do 23/7.

Systems will probably flip constantly though and people can gain standings even faster, I reckon CCP considers that a sign of a healthy dynamic feature regardless of how it is done or by whom it is done. If this is what was meant by "something to shake things up" then I fear there is nothing more to be done in the crusade to make FW worthwhile as far as I am concerned.

That single line is to me proof positive that they have not only abandoned FW but have managed to get rid of any people that might have a clue as to what and how FW functions.

Humbug I say.

PS: I shall henceforth devote my forum time to get the damnable projectiles nerfed back a bit.


Yes. Say hello to your new altswarm masters.
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#10 - 2011-11-28 16:16:17 UTC
Karl Planck wrote:
despite the bittervet ringing though the majority of your recent posts, you have to admit that without this change almost 100% of the grandiose changes suggested for fw would be meaningless.

When it comes to FW I went beyond "bitter" ages ago my dear Smile

What does this change solve? Think about it.

Post-DT crowd will deplete plexes and station an alt or two in vicinity as per normal. The one side that was out-blobbed post-DT may get numbers eventually and take over area for say 8-12 hours (good luck finding non-alts with that kind of staying power though).
Result: System flips will occur more frequently but will still primarily be determined by the 'regular' DT shuffle and by whomever has the most alts/time on hand.

There is no fix .. until CCP realises that there is no hope. It is a Yugo and no amount of low-rider modifications and stereos with boot sized subwoofers will change that .. revamp or bust.
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-11-28 16:23:22 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:


What does this change solve? Think about it.

Post-DT crowd will deplete plexes and station an alt or two in vicinity as per normal. The one side that was out-blobbed post-DT may get numbers eventually and take over area for say 8-12 hours (good luck finding non-alts with that kind of staying power though).
Result: System flips will occur more frequently but will still primarily be determined by the 'regular' DT shuffle and by whomever has the most alts/time on hand.

There is no fix .. until CCP realises that there is no hope. It is a Yugo and no amount of low-rider modifications and stereos with boot sized subwoofers will change that .. revamp or bust.



What does this directly solve? Hardly anything.

A few people will have some experiences with plexes and the availability of small gang pew pew will be more expansive. Plexes are always a good way to get some pew, especially on the amarr/matar front. Yes, people will farm them with alts and w/e, but without sov mattering who really cares. What it DOES open up is the availability for people to pew in them across the timeboard in all systems of fw.

However, while nice, its not really substantive.

What this really does is pave the way for any of the suggestions that have been posed for a fw overhaul. Any change regarding sov required this change. People before said this might be a technical nightmare, which I am happy to see it wasn't.

TL;DR very small immediate benifits, long term: fixed the #1 mechanic preventing meaningful fw development

I has all the eve inactivity
Val Erian
Azure Horizon Federate Militia
#12 - 2011-11-28 16:27:25 UTC
I have not posted on forums in long time. But felt compelled to do so by this change.

As always with CCP you have to observe in game how it really works.

But, I would have to agree in general with Hirana. As for systems flipping more often, they may flip less now. If there are always plexs available every 30 minutes you have to have 24/7 coverage to prevent defenders from undoing any gains.

And if you are interested in occupancy, what is reason to fight over a plex when there will be new ones when current enemy logs or goes elsewhere?

I will wait and see if CCP has fixed problem of no plexs except after DT in systems occupied in enemy Sovreign area.

Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#13 - 2011-11-28 16:36:59 UTC
Val Erian wrote:
I have not posted on forums in long time. But felt compelled to do so by this change.

As always with CCP you have to observe in game how it really works.

But, I would have to agree in general with Hirana. As for systems flipping more often, they may flip less now. If there are always plexs available every 30 minutes you have to have 24/7 coverage to prevent defenders from undoing any gains.

And if you are interested in occupancy, what is reason to fight over a plex when there will be new ones when current enemy logs or goes elsewhere?

I will wait and see if CCP has fixed problem of no plexs except after DT in systems occupied in enemy Sovreign area.



Aleast you can stop using alts now to move plexes around.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#14 - 2011-11-28 17:18:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Karl Planck wrote:
despite the bittervet ringing though the majority of your recent posts, you have to admit that without this change almost 100% of the grandiose changes suggested for fw would be meaningless.

When it comes to FW I went beyond "bitter" ages ago my dear Smile

What does this change solve? Think about it.

Post-DT crowd will deplete plexes and station an alt or two in vicinity as per normal. The one side that was out-blobbed post-DT may get numbers eventually and take over area for say 8-12 hours (good luck finding non-alts with that kind of staying power though).
Result: System flips will occur more frequently but will still primarily be determined by the 'regular' DT shuffle and by whomever has the most alts/time on hand.

There is no fix .. until CCP realises that there is no hope. It is a Yugo and no amount of low-rider modifications and stereos with boot sized subwoofers will change that .. revamp or bust.



First Thank you CCP!

Second:


Well idealy people in the militia later will be aware of what systems are contested and continue to fight for them throughout the day.

Hirana even you have to admit this is a much needed change.

I will agree with you however that this is not a fix to fw.

The fact is this is probably the most significant change we could get all the players to agree on.

After this change and a few other obvious smaller issues involving repping etc. there is very little we players agree on. And the players clearly can't agree on what is needed to fix fw.

The only thing we all agree on is that it needs a fix.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#15 - 2011-11-28 17:49:49 UTC
A nice appetizer.

Thanks CCP
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#16 - 2011-11-28 18:25:45 UTC
I'm not sure why people think this is a good change. This emphasizes the timezone war further.

DT to 1800, your crew plexes up a system. 1800 to 0000, enemy crew plexes down, so what's the point? Do the people who welcome the change actually realize how the spawning mechanics work?

This still does not fix the NPC balance, either.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#17 - 2011-11-28 18:35:52 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
I'm not sure why people think this is a good change. This emphasizes the timezone war further.

DT to 1800, your crew plexes up a system. 1800 to 0000, enemy crew plexes down, so what's the point? Do the people who welcome the change actually realize how the spawning mechanics work?

This still does not fix the NPC balance, either.


At least there is more than 1 hour of the day that can be important for fw plexxing.

How often plexes spawn and how often systems are flipped is something ccp still will need to work on.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#18 - 2011-11-28 18:57:24 UTC
Cearain wrote:
..Hirana even you have to admit this is a much needed change..

Still not seeing what it will change, whomever has manpower to burn (read: alts galore) will still dominate the plexing scene.

If it was to be a meaningful change then they'd have made the bunkers hackable (might even make a mini-game of it) and upon success a plex spawns (up to X per hour), they could probably use the code from mission spawning for Goddess sake ..
- A change like that would fit with your plex notification scheme perfectly and solve just about all outstanding issues concerning spawning.
If it was to be a meaningful change then they'd address the NPC imbalances (remove, tweak take your pick)

Instead they appear to have chosen a brute force approach and added some simple "if" / "then" lines of code .. only question is if it replaces current spawn system or only kicks in once regular spawns deplete, probably the latter as they used the word "respawn".

Can't wait to see what they managed to break this time though, bet the code runs amok and spawns them continually adding a bazillion plexes to the DT shuffle thus FUBAR'ing the server Twisted.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#19 - 2011-11-28 18:59:14 UTC
Cearain wrote:

The fact is this is probably the most significant change we could get all the players to agree on.

After this change and a few other obvious smaller issues involving repping etc. there is very little we players agree on. And the players clearly can't agree on what is needed to fix fw.

The only thing we all agree on is that it needs a fix.


One important bit to point out, the CSM have specifically told me that CCP is not as much interested in how to fix FW, but what the core problems are. Apparently whether we agree on how to fix something is not as crucial as agreeing what the problem is to be begin with. They like to come up with their own fixes apparently. However you slice it, I'm just glad this finally got taken care of. Its a start at least.


CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2011-11-28 19:01:34 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Cearain wrote:
..Hirana even you have to admit this is a much needed change..

Still not seeing what it will change, whomever has manpower to burn (read: alts galore) will still dominate the plexing scene.

If it was to be a meaningful change then they'd have made the bunkers hackable (might even make a mini-game of it) and upon success a plex spawns (up to X per hour), they could probably use the code from mission spawning for Goddess sake ..
- A change like that would fit with your plex notification scheme perfectly and solve just about all outstanding issues concerning spawning.
If it was to be a meaningful change then they'd address the NPC imbalances (remove, tweak take your pick)

Instead they appear to have chosen a brute force approach and added some simple "if" / "then" lines of code .. only question is if it replaces current spawn system or only kicks in once regular spawns deplete, probably the latter as they used the word "respawn".

Can't wait to see what they managed to break this time though, bet the code runs amok and spawns them continually adding a bazillion plexes to the DT shuffle thus FUBAR'ing the server Twisted.


I swear your dodging my posts on purpose.

Plex spawning around the clock is necessary for any sov/plexing changes. This is a mandatory first step.

Also, plexing in itself is a good way to get pew pew. More plex's = more pew

I has all the eve inactivity
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