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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Extra materials (X-post from sci and industry forum)

First post
Author
Nick Parker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-02-28 05:03:10 UTC
First off I don't do industry much. I produce my own ammo and most of my own rigs. I was going to build a Dominix for personal use, and I see that I need all these extra materials.Why and when was this added to the game? WTH is this?! Why am I being charged twice the mineral contents to build one ship? My Eve time is very limited, and I do not want to spend more time mining, looting, refining or buying inerals than I have to. What Is the incentive for a new player (Or a old vet who wants to try something new) to even attempt manufacturing with this TAX that I get nothing from. It's more efficient to just buy them from someone else, and keeps newer folks out of the ship building game. I'm not wanting to build a fleet of them, and recycle them for profit! If that is what it is for, then nerf ship recycling, but don't screw the small guy who wants to build a ship for personal use.

Please find someway to remove this penalty, nerf ship recycling, or give us players a skill lower the extra penalty er I mean materials cost.

Plans like this make the US Governments budgeting sound sensible.

Sorry to cross post, but I would like some explanation from CCP and a remedy. I don't have enough time to mine two battle ships and only get one.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2014-02-28 05:14:40 UTC
Extra materials started to appear when the mats needed to produce rebalanced battleships went up substantially.

I gather the reason was to stop people building/stockpiling vast numbers of these ships pre-patch and then immediately reprocessing them after the patch for a vast profit.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2014-02-28 05:15:01 UTC
extra materials? you mean manufacturing waste? could you be more specific on that.
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#4 - 2014-02-28 05:15:57 UTC
Extra Materials in this case was introduced when they re-balanced the BS, and to stop an influx of Minerals by people pre-building ships prior to change and then refining them after, we have this arsehattery.

I assume that at some stage CCP will combine the mineral amounts to make it look correct and also correct the crazy Material Efficiency sub level 5 bug of giving a weird Quote.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-02-28 06:17:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
BTW, never admit to intentionally duplicate posting. ISD's have no sense of humor or allowance for topics that may fall under multiple categories.

As for the idea itself... Nope, it's too early.

At the very least, I'd expect CCP to wait several more years to make sure that the effect of reverting the change will be minimal or nonexistant due to the stock of previously assembled items being completely depleted.

And since some of the ships changed over a year ago are still far below production price, with doubtlessly massive stockpiles in reserve, I would not expect any merging of the extra materials into the main section until 1-2 years minimum AFTER prices on all changes ships have returned to above production prices.

Edit: Assume the total standard+extra will be the requirement for construction from here on out, it is almost certainly not going to be decreasing. It's not really extra or a penalty, it's just the new standard.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#6 - 2014-02-28 09:09:52 UTC
This is not a battleship issue, this started happening right from the start when the frigates got rebalanced. And the reason the extra materials exist is what Hasikan Miallok said.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.

Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#7 - 2014-02-28 14:11:16 UTC
This is to prevent people trolling the rebalance passes for extra minerals.
as CCP sees hoarded stocks of these ships decrease to manageable levels, they will remove the 'extra materials' so they reprocess back down appropriately

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.

Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#8 - 2014-02-28 15:39:27 UTC
Some quick explanations before relevent points:

Extra materials are another category of inputs required to build an item. Many of them were introduced in concert with the tiericide of tech 1 ships. Extra Materials are not returned when you reprocess the item.

Part of the tiericide initiative was to balance price as well as ability. Smoe of the lower tier battleships were extremely cheap. The Scorpion for example cost less than 100M isk. And as someone said, in order to prevent smart industrialists from buying up all the stock or building a crap ton of ships pre-patch and then reprocessing them post patch for massive profit, CCP introduced a lot of non-refundable extra materials into the build process.

I have no doubt CCP knows exactly how many of these ships were in existence pre-patch, and how many are around now. What I don't know (frankly I doubt this part) is if they know how many of the current stock were built pre-patch, and if thy have a way to track those.

Frankly, I don't think it really matters. The mineral market is pretty big. Currently, I think the trit market could probably absorb it. There is a lot of demand for titan production right now.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#9 - 2014-03-04 20:00:58 UTC
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
This is to prevent people trolling the rebalance passes for extra minerals.
as CCP sees hoarded stocks of these ships decrease to manageable levels, they will remove the 'extra materials' so they reprocess back down appropriately


They will? Source please.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2014-03-04 20:05:07 UTC
Sable Moran wrote:
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
This is to prevent people trolling the rebalance passes for extra minerals.
as CCP sees hoarded stocks of these ships decrease to manageable levels, they will remove the 'extra materials' so they reprocess back down appropriately


They will? Source please.

not necessarily remove but put add them the normal costs
Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#11 - 2014-03-04 20:08:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Nick Parker wrote:

Sorry to cross post, but I would like some explanation from CCP and a remedy. I don't have enough time to mine two battle ships and only get one.


They don't personally owe you an explanation beyond what they've already said publicly for everyone.

S&I already explained in your original thread why this isn't a problem, and why they exist.

You aren't mining two battleships, and getting one. You're mining one battleship and getting one. Like everyone else.

If you didn't understand the responses you could have continued posting in that thread, which is still on the first page.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#12 - 2014-03-05 21:23:32 UTC
As you have already a thread on the same topic, this one gets a lock.

The rules:
16. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.

As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)