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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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My new player experience

Author
J'Poll
MUSE LLP
RAZOR Alliance
#21 - 2014-02-27 01:50:59 UTC
Rumini wrote:
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
Ugh, this turned quasi negative quick.

There's good advice all around. Some people know what they want to do, some don't. Take what works and leave the rest. No need to **** in someone's cheerios because you like frosted flakes.


Excellent point. I pretty clearly haven't said anyone is wrong despite some people's assertion that I did. Nor did I say being a jack of all trades is bad, or that you can't do all things well.


What

Let me refresh your mind:

Quote:
Bad gun skills, bad cap and fitting skills because you've wasted the first month playing games with wanting to do this and do that. I think my way is better.


Clearly your way is best and doing multiple things is bad.

Too bad there are plenty of Jack of all Trades that disagree with you which are marginally worse at things then a fully specialized person.

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Silver Dagger Kondur
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2014-02-27 04:05:53 UTC
OP, I'm fairly new too.

Most of my skills are combat in one race, Minmatar, in cruiser or less. (No current intention of going beyond that for a long long time.) But, as I trip across skills I need to earn more ISK, I train them up. That includes some fairly well developed mining skills which I will use for gas mining.

Specialization focuses your direction, but there's so much that's useful in this game, it's a shame not to train up lots of other useful areas on your way to your first goal.
Billy Sastard
Life. Universe. Everything.
Clockwork Pineapple
#23 - 2014-02-27 04:14:54 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Rumini wrote:
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
Ugh, this turned quasi negative quick.

There's good advice all around. Some people know what they want to do, some don't. Take what works and leave the rest. No need to **** in someone's cheerios because you like frosted flakes.


Excellent point. I pretty clearly haven't said anyone is wrong despite some people's assertion that I did. Nor did I say being a jack of all trades is bad, or that you can't do all things well.


What

Let me refresh your mind:

Quote:
Bad gun skills, bad cap and fitting skills because you've wasted the first month playing games with wanting to do this and do that. I think my way is better.


Clearly your way is best and doing multiple things is bad.

Too bad there are plenty of Jack of all Trades that disagree with you which are marginally worse at things then a fully specialized person.



I kind of agree with J'Poll on this point.

My main (Billy) is a dedicated amarr pilot with almost zero skillpoints in anything but combat/pvp related skills. However, I seem to have better luck and more fun when I roam on my alt which was initally industry/mining only (and my 'main' in the beginning) which I later trained up for various combat roles. Jacking a bunch of trades can lead to a more fulfilling playstyle, and who knows, maybe some day having those mining skills trained will work out when your alliance decides to run a battlemack fleet or something! Pirate
Rumini
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2014-02-27 04:16:55 UTC
Silver Dagger Kondur wrote:
OP, I'm fairly new too.

Most of my skills are combat in one race, Minmatar, in cruiser or less. (No current intention of going beyond that for a long long time.) But, as I trip across skills I need to earn more ISK, I train them up. That includes some fairly well developed mining skills which I will use for gas mining.

Specialization focuses your direction, but there's so much that's useful in this game, it's a shame not to train up lots of other useful areas on your way to your first goal.



I'll do my best to not tie this reply into others. I think there is a serious lack of reading comprehension in this thread by some mainly because some choose to frame an argument to suit their terms and very narrow definitions. I am dying still to see where I said anything other than "I think this is best for me" or " this is what I think I'll do". Or where I said anything but starting out one needs to focus. Sadly I made ZERO comparisons to 6 months, or even 3 months down the road as to what I think someone should train. If one is incapable of comprehending this is through the "eye" as it were of a less than two week old toon then they should kindly stop being a bellend and move along. I have been nothing but consistent in saying these are my choices and my thoughts. Disagree if you will but have the intellectual honesty to try and put your "arguments" in a place that is relative to a sub two week toon. Not what's a good idea a year from now.
Rumini
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2014-02-27 04:18:55 UTC
Billy Sastard wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Rumini wrote:
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
Ugh, this turned quasi negative quick.

There's good advice all around. Some people know what they want to do, some don't. Take what works and leave the rest. No need to **** in someone's cheerios because you like frosted flakes.


Excellent point. I pretty clearly haven't said anyone is wrong despite some people's assertion that I did. Nor did I say being a jack of all trades is bad, or that you can't do all things well.


What

Let me refresh your mind:

Quote:
Bad gun skills, bad cap and fitting skills because you've wasted the first month playing games with wanting to do this and do that. I think my way is better.


Clearly your way is best and doing multiple things is bad.

Too bad there are plenty of Jack of all Trades that disagree with you which are marginally worse at things then a fully specialized person.



I kind of agree with J'Poll on this point.

My main (Billy) is a dedicated amarr pilot with almost zero skillpoints in anything but combat/pvp related skills. However, I seem to have better luck and more fun when I roam on my alt which was initally industry/mining only (and my 'main' in the beginning) which I later trained up for various combat roles. Jacking a bunch of trades can lead to a more fulfilling playstyle, and who knows, maybe some day having those mining skills trained will work out when your alliance decides to run a battlemack fleet or something! Pirate



That's great. How old are they? When did you start "cross training" them into other facets of the game? And when did they get skills you consider acceptable in all these points of interest?
Rumini
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2014-02-27 04:26:39 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Rumini wrote:
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
Ugh, this turned quasi negative quick.

There's good advice all around. Some people know what they want to do, some don't. Take what works and leave the rest. No need to **** in someone's cheerios because you like frosted flakes.


Excellent point. I pretty clearly haven't said anyone is wrong despite some people's assertion that I did. Nor did I say being a jack of all trades is bad, or that you can't do all things well.


What

Let me refresh your mind:

Quote:
Bad gun skills, bad cap and fitting skills because you've wasted the first month playing games with wanting to do this and do that. I think my way is better.


Clearly your way is best and doing multiple things is bad.

Too bad there are plenty of Jack of all Trades that disagree with you which are marginally worse at things then a fully specialized person.



Serious question. Are you literate? I keep scanning for "wrong" or " I'm right and you suck!!" sadly all I see that you must construe that from is "I think my way is better". Can you provide a good skill plan for a new character that quickly gets them competent at all facets of eve? Say for one around my age 9 days or so? How about 2 weeks? A month? How long would it take me to become a competent pvp pilot in say a slasher and be a decent miner in say a retriever? What about adding some market skills? How long to become competent at scanning since we're doing it all? How many races weapon systems, tanks and hull sizes do you recommend the first month? I'd like to see a lot more steak and a lot less sizzle about how to get effective at all facets of eve my first couple weeks. It'd be a great asset for the community.
Billy Sastard
Life. Universe. Everything.
Clockwork Pineapple
#27 - 2014-02-27 04:28:25 UTC
Rumini wrote:
That's great. How old are they? When did you start "cross training" them into other facets of the game? And when did they get skills you consider acceptable in all these points of interest?



What I consider acceptable???

Well I have extremely low standards and think min/maxing is boring so yeah... I am pretty sure any answer I could come up with would be inadequate for you Blink

But in short, I have just not cared about being 100% effective in any one role and just had fun with what I could do at the time. Being too serious about being perfect would drive me crazy, it might work for you, but you cannot claim that it is the right way to do it, as there is no right way in this game. If you must know, the indy character started gathering combat skills to a certain extent from the beginning, as I did run missions and such with the guy before I made Billy. After a while I then decided to make a combat only character dedicated to beautiful golden ships and lasers, and spent most of the indy characters time training mining/production. I had fun the whole time, and at no time did I feel that the characters skills were not 'acceptable', but that was because I knew this game was a game of patience and that with time I would get better. It also helps that I am a rather patient person, so allowing myself to diversify and scatter skills around did not bother me in the least (see my previous min/max comment).
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#28 - 2014-02-27 07:54:26 UTC
There is a couple of things i want to address here.

First off.
Rumini wrote:

I am dying still to see where I said anything other than "I think this is best for me" or " this is what I think I'll do".


I think you said something along those lines right here;

Rumini wrote:

My last piece of advice is to find a corp that is doing what you WANT to do. Corps that do "everything" is a sure sign no one is doing a damn thing, at least well. Want to mine? Find an active mining corp with people who will give you real world advice on how to accomplish your goals. Want to mission? Find a mission runners corp and get advice how to do this. Want to fly around in little ships looking for small gangs and to die horribly a couple times a day? Send me 500mil isk and I'll get you into the Goon's (jokes, jokes). The point is to get out of that silly NPC corp and to find guys/gals who are doing what you want to do and learn how to do it. I think this is the single most important thing a new player needs to learn. FIND A DAMN CORP!!!


At that specific point you are telling people what kind of corp they should join, while bashing down on corporations that dont specialize in one area. Nothing in that part of your post says anything along the lines off "I think this is the best for me" or "This is what i think I'll do. Its a very clear "This is what you should do because the other options are bad".
And that is what i disagreed with, which leads me to my second point.

I think you misunderstood my post completely.
I was trying to tell you that joining a corporation that does everything has its benefits, because you will have people off all aspects in said corp. People who specialize in mining, PVP, PVE, trading. piracy, whatever.

Just because your in a corporation that has people that do different things, it does not mean that you have to do it all, or even any of it.

I will use my self as an example here.
I hate mining.
I dont PVP.
If you want to get me into a WH you have to drag me kicking and screaming.
I dont do any form of industry.
I dont do any trading.

Now what does the corp do?
Some mine, some PVP, some live in WH, some live in low sec, some live in high sec, some does missions, some trade, some just use EVE as a glorified chat room and im sure others are doing things im not even aware off!

Does this affect my skill training in any way or form? No.
I train what I want to train, because when your in a corp where everyone is allowed and encouraged to do whatever they feel like doing no one is going to dictate what you train.

Specialization.

How on earth this moved into a discussion on whether or not its a good thing to specialize your skills i dont know, but believe me that was not my intention, even if i feel like my post somehow caused this.

Some people like to specialize, either because they want to be maxed out in what they want to spend their time doing, or because their OCD is screaming at them if they dont have every skill at level 5.
Im a pure Minmatar, 8 years of skill training, and i have a total of 150k SP in missiles.And why? Because i dont like missile ships that much. If i told someone that they have to train something in everything i would be a hypocrite Lol

So, if you know what you want to do, specialize your skills around that. If you want to try something new, train the basic skills and then make up your mind about it, if you want to do it all, go for it.

So, in that aspect i think we agree, every person has to make their own choice on this.
Rumini
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2014-02-27 14:11:43 UTC
Billy Sastard wrote:
Rumini wrote:
That's great. How old are they? When did you start "cross training" them into other facets of the game? And when did they get skills you consider acceptable in all these points of interest?



What I consider acceptable???

Well I have extremely low standards and think min/maxing is boring so yeah... I am pretty sure any answer I could come up with would be inadequate for you Blink

But in short, I have just not cared about being 100% effective in any one role and just had fun with what I could do at the time. Being too serious about being perfect would drive me crazy, it might work for you, but you cannot claim that it is the right way to do it, as there is no right way in this game. If you must know, the indy character started gathering combat skills to a certain extent from the beginning, as I did run missions and such with the guy before I made Billy. After a while I then decided to make a combat only character dedicated to beautiful golden ships and lasers, and spent most of the indy characters time training mining/production. I had fun the whole time, and at no time did I feel that the characters skills were not 'acceptable', but that was because I knew this game was a game of patience and that with time I would get better. It also helps that I am a rather patient person, so allowing myself to diversify and scatter skills around did not bother me in the least (see my previous min/max comment).



You misunderstand me. All I am curious about is how long it took for you to feel you had acceptable skills in various areas. No trap, and no comments from me. I am honestly curious how long people need to be happy with their skills doing multiple activities. I'm not going to make a judgement about what makes you happy. I'd really like to see some skill plans and a list of what to train and to what level by the people who think cross training is good, but I doubt that's forthcoming any time soon.
Rumini
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2014-02-27 14:17:33 UTC
NightCrawler 85 wrote:
There is a couple of things i want to address here.

First off.
Rumini wrote:

I am dying still to see where I said anything other than "I think this is best for me" or " this is what I think I'll do".


I think you said something along those lines right here;

Rumini wrote:

My last piece of advice is to find a corp that is doing what you WANT to do. Corps that do "everything" is a sure sign no one is doing a damn thing, at least well. Want to mine? Find an active mining corp with people who will give you real world advice on how to accomplish your goals. Want to mission? Find a mission runners corp and get advice how to do this. Want to fly around in little ships looking for small gangs and to die horribly a couple times a day? Send me 500mil isk and I'll get you into the Goon's (jokes, jokes). The point is to get out of that silly NPC corp and to find guys/gals who are doing what you want to do and learn how to do it. I think this is the single most important thing a new player needs to learn. FIND A DAMN CORP!!!


At that specific point you are telling people what kind of corp they should join, while bashing down on corporations that dont specialize in one area. Nothing in that part of your post says anything along the lines off "I think this is the best for me" or "This is what i think I'll do. Its a very clear "This is what you should do because the other options are bad".
And that is what i disagreed with, which leads me to my second point.

I think you misunderstood my post completely.
I was trying to tell you that joining a corporation that does everything has its benefits, because you will have people off all aspects in said corp. People who specialize in mining, PVP, PVE, trading. piracy, whatever.

Just because your in a corporation that has people that do different things, it does not mean that you have to do it all, or even any of it.

I will use my self as an example here.
I hate mining.
I dont PVP.
If you want to get me into a WH you have to drag me kicking and screaming.
I dont do any form of industry.
I dont do any trading.

Now what does the corp do?
Some mine, some PVP, some live in WH, some live in low sec, some live in high sec, some does missions, some trade, some just use EVE as a glorified chat room and im sure others are doing things im not even aware off!

Does this affect my skill training in any way or form? No.
I train what I want to train, because when your in a corp where everyone is allowed and encouraged to do whatever they feel like doing no one is going to dictate what you train.

Specialization.

How on earth this moved into a discussion on whether or not its a good thing to specialize your skills i dont know, but believe me that was not my intention, even if i feel like my post somehow caused this.

Some people like to specialize, either because they want to be maxed out in what they want to spend their time doing, or because their OCD is screaming at them if they dont have every skill at level 5.
Im a pure Minmatar, 8 years of skill training, and i have a total of 150k SP in missiles.And why? Because i dont like missile ships that much. If i told someone that they have to train something in everything i would be a hypocrite Lol

So, if you know what you want to do, specialize your skills around that. If you want to try something new, train the basic skills and then make up your mind about it, if you want to do it all, go for it.

So, in that aspect i think we agree, every person has to make their own choice on this.




I could have sworn I posted a mea culpa about the corporation part a page ago. As an aside I'm more than disinterested in this thread for the time being. I've spent the majority responding to flat out bullshit or conjecture or repeating myself for those with learning disabilities. I see little point in contributing to this thread for the foreseeable future.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2014-02-27 15:10:51 UTC
many thanks to the community for welcoming a new player.
Billy Sastard
Life. Universe. Everything.
Clockwork Pineapple
#32 - 2014-02-27 16:26:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Billy Sastard
Rumini wrote:
You misunderstand me. All I am curious about is how long it took for you to feel you had acceptable skills in various areas. No trap, and no comments from me. I am honestly curious how long people need to be happy with their skills doing multiple activities. I'm not going to make a judgement about what makes you happy. I'd really like to see some skill plans and a list of what to train and to what level by the people who think cross training is good, but I doubt that's forthcoming any time soon.


For any skill I have trained so far, I felt that I could function well with that skill at 3, maybe 4 if it was required for unlocking further skills. It was not until I was years into the game that I decided to fill out all those skills.

The truth is that it only takes a day or so to skill up a new subject to use able levels, and in the big picture, a few days is not important.

Heck, when I came back after taking a long break recently I found that so many things had changed that even with nearly 100m combat sp I was lacking in certain aspects, but that never bothered me. So I am not sure how to answer the question of when I felt skills were 'acceptable', as even now I have areas where I am aware that I am lacking, however I am not bothered by the fact that I am not able to squeeze that last 10-15% out of something, fleshing out the skills was something of a luxury later on.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-02-27 16:34:25 UTC
I feel I'm in opposite-world in this thread; there is a fresh newbie knuckling down, not complaining about training times getting clubbed over the head and being told to string out his training time to something less-optimal to what he needs Ugh

I get why some of you guys are coming in hard, since his way isn't going to be the way for everyone, and you should certainly point that out, but perhaps some of the quibbling about exact definitions and splitting hairs over meanings is probably better served in some of the more negative threads, and let this one go back to the feel-good theme it was started in.

Anyhoo, good look step-bro (I'm not sure if a Groon and a WI-goon quite counts as brother, its one of those awkward somehow-relateds you get at family gatherings where certain uncles have been putting it about a bit...)
Cara Forelli
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#34 - 2014-02-27 18:26:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
Rumini wrote:
I could have sworn I posted a mea culpa about the corporation part a page ago. As an aside I'm more than disinterested in this thread for the time being. I've spent the majority responding to flat out bullshit or conjecture or repeating myself for those with learning disabilities. I see little point in contributing to this thread for the foreseeable future.


It's a bummer, because this thread started off so well. Reading it I went from pleased at the OP's initial attitude, to amused by the responses typifying the various attitudes of our forum regulars, to frustrated that people who agree on 95% of the post topic can't reach an understanding.

Arguing about specialization is just silly. It's an inherent trade-off built in to the game. Everyone has to decide at some level whether they want to be more efficient at a single task or be able to perform more tasks. For new players without clearly defined interests it can be useful to diversify a bit to see what they enjoy. This will eventually lead to specializing somewhat, as EVE rather demands it. Other players have well defined goals and would prefer to specialize immediately.

IMO train diverse skills until you have well defined goals. Then specialize enough to meet your goals without stunting your playstyle options completely.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Miriya Zakalwe
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2014-02-28 00:16:03 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
It's a bummer, because this thread started off so well. Reading it I went from pleased at the OP's initial attitude, to amused by the responses typifying the attitude of our forum regulars, to frustrated that people who agree on 95% of the post topic can't reach an understanding.


It's completely understandable forum meta. There's an instinctive reaction among many vets to perceived arrogance (or for that matter, butthurt) by noobs. It takes like a week at most to figure that out as a noob if you're perceptive (or even sentient at all), at which point you either accept it or don't :)

This is hardly unique to these forums. In fact, these are pretty tame in comparison to many.
Rumini
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2014-02-28 01:01:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Rumini
I've decided to hell with stopping this thread. I have things to say and will just ignore the shitposters from here on out.

The D-Scanner. It's my nemesis. Or was until I realized I needed to learn to use it and found a couple great guides on YouTube. I am not sure how applicable it is to a non combat role (anyone care to comment?) . I can see use's for miners etc. to keep a watch out for hostiles but mostly it seems to be a tool for combat. As location tool, and as an early warning system for the aware. I was literally warping belt to belt (derping as I like to call it) looking for ratters until I found this handy little tool built right into the game. Handy stuff to say the least. I am still learning it limitation's and it's finer points in empty systems till I get the hang of it. The best part is no skill training, no books to buy and no pre-requisites. Everyone in game has one you simply need to take the time to find a guide or hit a corp mate up and get the lowdown on this really handy tool. I mentioned it earlier but this also ties into how your D-scanner works. Your overview. If you're new and it's the default setup it's borked. Now, my alliance has a specific overview we use so the guide I linked was of no use to me personally. So while I can't swear to it's quality it is a guide from Eve-Uni a well known beginner friendly source.


Linkage...

Overview guide

Quick Dscanner tutorial I found that was well done

D-Scanner Guide

Research what applies to you, and make it so. Sadly I still suck and haven't caught anyone yet but this is a new weapon in my arsenal that I have no doubt will pay dividends down the road.
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