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Does Eve need new players?

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#461 - 2014-02-26 14:03:51 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Oh believe me, I did too. I came into the game with the intent of being a " (player) pirate hunter", I couldn't understand how anyone would want to be a pirate or other bad guy in a video game.

7 years later I'm neither player pirate hunter or player pirate (NPC pirates are a whole 'nother matter, I slaughter them buy the boatload, screw those guys).

Mainly because while I don't personally find pirate play interesting, I've learned that the "pirates" (gankers, scammers, hell, just say Goons) are actually the well adjusted adult EVE players who can keep a video game in context while having fun.
Meanwhile, the "weak" types are just too busy being delusional "Michael Jackson in Neverland" child-like people stuck in their own imaginations who take all of this game stuff way too seriously while they refuse to do anything in their own defense with all the free freaking Guns the game gives them.


I've mentioned it before in-thread, but me personally, I just have too much of an independent streak. I'd never let someone else dictate to me how I judge another person, and I for damn sure won't let a GAME MECHANIC decide if someone is a "bad person" or not for me.

Being a "bad guy" in EVE is an arbitrary rule set decision. CONCORD and sec status exist as a marketing decision by CCP (in early EVE, there was no CONCORD, it was emplaced to make things easier for newbies to help retention).

Now, if someone acts like a jerk via chat, EVEmail, and forums, I'll make a character judgement on them for that. That, however, is entirely divorced and unconnected with someone "being the villian" in EVE.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

#462 - 2014-02-26 14:04:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Theft of embroidery aside, I wanted to discuss this.


They are either crotcheted, or knit. Embroidery is something different.

Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Being a "bad guy" in EVE is an arbitrary rule set decision. CONCORD and sec status exist as a marketing decision by CCP (in early EVE, there was no CONCORD, it was emplaced to make things easier for newbies to help retention).

Now, if someone acts like a jerk via chat, EVEmail, and forums, I'll make a character judgement on them for that. That, however, is entirely divorced and unconnected with someone "being the villian" in EVE.


Who is more the "bad guy" or the "villain".
The person who hurts your feelings with a bad word?
Or the person who kills your character and takes everything?
ChaosTheory.
#463 - 2014-02-26 14:09:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Theft of embroidery aside, I wanted to discuss this.


They are either crotcheted, or knit. Embroidery is something different.

Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Being a "bad guy" in EVE is an arbitrary rule set decision. CONCORD and sec status exist as a marketing decision by CCP (in early EVE, there was no CONCORD, it was emplaced to make things easier for newbies to help retention).

Now, if someone acts like a jerk via chat, EVEmail, and forums, I'll make a character judgement on them for that. That, however, is entirely divorced and unconnected with someone "being the villian" in EVE.


Who is more the "bad guy" or the "villain".
The person who hurts your feelings with a bad word?
Or the person who kills your character and takes everything?


The person who hurts your feelings with a bad word out of context of the game.

People are supposed to kill your character and take all your stuff (if you are dumb enough to put all your eggs in one basket).

The person who kills you in EVE (under any circumstances except in the noob systems) is no more "bad" than a person who takes your pieces in a game of chess or checkers. If you don't like (or at least can't stand) losing pieces, you should not be playing checkers, chess or EVE.
ChaosTheory.
#464 - 2014-02-26 14:12:33 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:


Guns are free? Blink


Yes they are, which is why my Machariel has 7 Civilian Gatling Guns in the highs. Screw paying if for things I can get for free! Big smile
#465 - 2014-02-26 14:13:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Jenn aSide wrote:
The person who kills you in EVE (under any circumstances except in the noob systems) is no more "bad" than a person who takes your pieces in a game of chess or checkers. If you don't like (or at least can't stand) losing pieces, you should not be playing checkers, chess or EVE.


If you cant stand bad words or people hurting your feelings, you should not be online at all.
ChaosTheory.
#466 - 2014-02-26 14:39:22 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
The person who kills you in EVE (under any circumstances except in the noob systems) is no more "bad" than a person who takes your pieces in a game of chess or checkers. If you don't like (or at least can't stand) losing pieces, you should not be playing checkers, chess or EVE.


If you cant stand bad words or people hurting your feelings, you should not be online at all.


No one is talking about any of that. Anyone who can't stand bad words shouldn't be on the internet, that much is true.

You basically asked which is worse. Relatively speaking, yea it's the person spewing crap to you , not the person simply playing the game within the rules (ie killing you and taking your stuff).
#467 - 2014-02-26 14:40:11 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
The person who kills you in EVE (under any circumstances except in the noob systems) is no more "bad" than a person who takes your pieces in a game of chess or checkers. If you don't like (or at least can't stand) losing pieces, you should not be playing checkers, chess or EVE.


If you cant stand bad words or people hurting your feelings, you should not be online at all.


And if you can't handle getting your stuff ganked on EVE, you should not be on that, either.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

#468 - 2014-02-26 14:41:58 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
The person who kills you in EVE (under any circumstances except in the noob systems) is no more "bad" than a person who takes your pieces in a game of chess or checkers. If you don't like (or at least can't stand) losing pieces, you should not be playing checkers, chess or EVE.


If you cant stand bad words or people hurting your feelings, you should not be online at all.


The problem is that in the midst of spirited debate there are people that get too emotionally invested in being right. As though being wrong is somehow a catastrophic character flaw. It's not. It's okay to be wrong. It's okay to say, "I don't know." It's okay to say, "You know what, you're right. My mistake."

But again, too many people aren't capable of saying things like this. I am. I'm wrong all the time. There is a whole lot I don't know. If I form my opinion on biased or inaccurate information and someone points that out to me, I am adult enough to re-evaluate my opinion.

Not because I have any character flaws, we all do, but because I'm an adult.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

#469 - 2014-02-26 15:12:49 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
The person who kills you in EVE (under any circumstances except in the noob systems) is no more "bad" than a person who takes your pieces in a game of chess or checkers. If you don't like (or at least can't stand) losing pieces, you should not be playing checkers, chess or EVE.


If you cant stand bad words or people hurting your feelings, you should not be online at all.


No one is talking about any of that. Anyone who can't stand bad words shouldn't be on the internet, that much is true.

You basically asked which is worse. Relatively speaking, yea it's the person spewing crap to you , not the person simply playing the game within the rules (ie killing you and taking your stuff).



Exactly correct. Lets take the typical highsec miner gank. Puckish rogue Lady Faps moonwalks into system, finds a juicy barge, and exploderates it. Miner McNastyface then proceeds to spew vile, homophobic, hateful remarks to the player of our puckish rogue, wishing various and sundry disturbing sexual acts enacted on our CODE enforcer, along with her family and pets.

In said situation, the person of bad character and questionable mental health is not the person blowing up spaceships in the blowing up spaceships game.


And just to invert the argument, If you cant stand getting ganked or people competing with you, you should not be playing EVE.


(I really like the term "Puckish Rogue" too. It's very classy and Shakespearian. Include it in your vocabulary today!)

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

#470 - 2014-02-26 16:12:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
If you cant stand bad words or people hurting your feelings, you should not be online at all.

Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
If you cant stand getting ganked or people competing with you, you should not be playing EVE.

Yes, both are equally true.
#471 - 2014-02-26 17:04:49 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Puckish Rogue


You've been playing Saints Row 4 today, haven't you.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

#472 - 2014-02-26 18:48:20 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Puckish Rogue


You've been playing Saints Row 4 today, haven't you.

It's a good way to pass the time until Rockstar release GTA V for PC, also Dubstep Gun Big smile

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

C C P Alliance
#473 - 2014-02-26 19:29:04 UTC
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:
Ok, so I will get ready for the flames...
But I've read some news articles about how CCP is not attracting the new players needed to keep the game going and is trying to raise revenues through gimmicks like the noble exchange.


I'm not sure which news articles you are referring to, but they are grossly misinformed and/or maybe just making guesses?

We are getting lots of new players and lots of returning players (especially since B-R5RB) and continue our upward trend in subscribers we've had for 11 years.

Shoot me over some links via EVE Mail and I might be able to set the record straight with them....

======== o7 _CCP Manifest | Public Relations and Social Media | @ccp_manifest_

C C P Alliance
#474 - 2014-02-26 19:30:29 UTC
That having been said, we always appreciate more, so I'm hoping everyone is taking advantage of the "open buddy" invite from Account Management. Fly safe, fly together, teach newbros old tricks.

======== o7 _CCP Manifest | Public Relations and Social Media | @ccp_manifest_

#475 - 2014-02-26 19:41:08 UTC
CCP Manifest wrote:
That having been said, we always appreciate more, so I'm hoping everyone is taking advantage of the "open buddy" invite from Account Management. Fly safe, fly together, teach newbros old tricks.


Manifest!! You shill!!! LOL

<3

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

#476 - 2014-02-26 19:50:26 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
CCP Manifest wrote:
That having been said, we always appreciate more, so I'm hoping everyone is taking advantage of the "open buddy" invite from Account Management. Fly safe, fly together, teach newbros old tricks.


Manifest!! You shill!!! LOL

<3

CCP Propaganda best Propaganda P, that said CCP are in the best position to talk about the numbers of new and returning players in Eve, they have all the data.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

#477 - 2014-02-26 19:52:48 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
CCP Manifest wrote:
That having been said, we always appreciate more, so I'm hoping everyone is taking advantage of the "open buddy" invite from Account Management. Fly safe, fly together, teach newbros old tricks.


Manifest!! You shill!!! LOL

<3

CCP Propaganda best Propaganda P, that said CCP are in the best position to talk about the numbers of new and returning players in Eve, they have all the data.


Confirming Eve is dying.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Paradigm.
#478 - 2014-02-26 20:22:03 UTC
CCP Manifest wrote:
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:
Ok, so I will get ready for the flames...
But I've read some news articles about how CCP is not attracting the new players needed to keep the game going and is trying to raise revenues through gimmicks like the noble exchange.


I'm not sure which news articles you are referring to, but they are grossly misinformed and/or maybe just making guesses?

We are getting lots of new players and lots of returning players (especially since B-R5RB) and continue our upward trend in subscribers we've had for 11 years.

Shoot me over some links via EVE Mail and I might be able to set the record straight with them....


I am recalling articles I've read in the past, the one specifically talking about the noble exchange, and there was something about the riots, and perhaps these were old. But it was the sense I got from talking to some of my friends online and off about the game. I started Eve about 4 years ago, left for a bit, came back, the usual story. But talking with some friends it seemed their frustration is that they don't have the resources for losing a lot of ships, and when they try to combat a small griefer corp with much better fittings available and several war decs concurrently running on similar small corps, losses start a snowball effect of other similar griefer corps war deccing them, resulting in ever growing numbers of hostile ships so that they can no longer muster the ship replacements or people to counter the first war and the additional ones, and they don't have the experienced players to know how to handle things or use different tactics, or whatever. So eventually they just end up having to button up and wait out the time. And some end up figuring it's not worth the monthly charge for something they liked to play a few hours per week.

But the overwhelming response (aside from many who may agree with me but don't post due to the abuse) seems to have been- Learn how to play our way and only our way, do it quickly, know exactly which corp to join that will teach you our way to play, do it all as if you've been playing this game for several years within a couple months, or GTFO. Any suggestion that limits easy targets for more advanced players is met by much tearing of hair and condemnation, which I find odd because if something as simple as modifying high sec war dec rules is enough to totally change the way these people play, it appears that newbies are their only viable targets.
ChaosTheory.
#479 - 2014-02-26 20:26:02 UTC
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:
CCP Manifest wrote:
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:
Ok, so I will get ready for the flames...
But I've read some news articles about how CCP is not attracting the new players needed to keep the game going and is trying to raise revenues through gimmicks like the noble exchange.


I'm not sure which news articles you are referring to, but they are grossly misinformed and/or maybe just making guesses?

We are getting lots of new players and lots of returning players (especially since B-R5RB) and continue our upward trend in subscribers we've had for 11 years.

Shoot me over some links via EVE Mail and I might be able to set the record straight with them....


I am recalling articles I've read in the past, the one specifically talking about the noble exchange, and there was something about the riots, and perhaps these were old. But it was the sense I got from talking to some of my friends online and off about the game. I started Eve about 4 years ago, left for a bit, came back, the usual story. But talking with some friends it seemed their frustration is that they don't have the resources for losing a lot of ships, and when they try to combat a small griefer corp with much better fittings available and several war decs concurrently running on similar small corps, losses start a snowball effect of other similar griefer corps war deccing them, resulting in ever growing numbers of hostile ships so that they can no longer muster the ship replacements or people to counter the first war and the additional ones, and they don't have the experienced players to know how to handle things or use different tactics, or whatever. So eventually they just end up having to button up and wait out the time. And some end up figuring it's not worth the monthly charge for something they liked to play a few hours per week.

But the overwhelming response (aside from many who may agree with me but don't post due to the abuse) seems to have been- Learn how to play our way and only our way, do it quickly, know exactly which corp to join that will teach you our way to play, do it all as if you've been playing this game for several years within a couple months, or GTFO. Any suggestion that limits easy targets for more advanced players is met by much tearing of hair and condemnation, which I find odd because if something as simple as modifying high sec war dec rules is enough to totally change the way these people play, it appears that newbies are their only viable targets.


You appear to not be able to see past your own biases on the matter to understand what was said to you.
#480 - 2014-02-26 20:33:05 UTC
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:
But the overwhelming response (aside from many who may agree with me but don't post due to the abuse) seems to have been- Learn how to play our way and only our way, do it quickly, know exactly which corp to join that will teach you our way to play, do it all as if you've been playing this game for several years within a couple months, or GTFO.
No, the response has been “learn”. Plain and simple. Learn, as opposed to just give up. Learn, as opposed to hide and do nothing. Learn, as opposed to assume that you will be spoon-fed all the answers. Learn, as opposed to complain about your own choices. Learn, because that's what everyone who is now successful has done — it's the reason they're now successful.

It has nothing to do with doing anything any particular way — that's just a common and incredibly lazy justification people trot out for not wanting to take the time to learn — but about figuring out how to do what you want to do in the environment that EVE offers.

Quote:
Any suggestion that limits easy targets for more advanced players is met by much tearing of hair and condemnation
Not really, no. It's suggestions that are short-sighted, ignorant of game mechanics, and ultimately harmful to genuine new players who get derided for being… ehm… less well-informed. Plenty of suggestions are made (often by the advanced players themselves) on how to limit the easy targets, but since they involve things like actively making yourself a hard target rather than offer blanket protection that non-newbies can hide under, they tend to be dismissed out of hand.

Quote:
if something as simple as modifying high sec war dec rules is enough to totally change the way these people play, it appears that newbies are their only viable targets.
You're going to have to explain this in more detail because it makes absolutely no sense.
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