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Fittable freighters

Author
donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2014-02-25 21:40:36 UTC
Thats why i put end game in quotation marks. Or why did you think i put end game in quotation marks?

So the hyperion EHP roughly doubles with a DCU II. Whats your point?
Kenrailae
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#42 - 2014-02-25 21:43:28 UTC
donmess wime wrote:
You think fitting slots is dumbing down the freighter? or Easy mode? If anything the current version is easy/dumb mode and therefore ****** mode, pardon my language..

Anyway if we cant agree the freighter is supposed to be an end game pinnacleish ship there is no point in continuing this conversation




A Freighter is not an 'End game' ship. If Eve has End game ships.... they are Titans, Super carriers, and pimped Faction ships.


But there are no End game ships... only ships that do a job. A Freighter's job is to move stuff. It doesn't need anything else to be the best at moving the most stuff.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2014-02-25 21:44:09 UTC  |  Edited by: donmess wime
There are so many ways to play EVE, if you are an industrial pilot or hauler, the Titan or pimped faction ships are not your 'end game' ships
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#44 - 2014-02-25 21:51:19 UTC
doubles? thats barely a 50% increase...

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2014-02-25 21:54:45 UTC
Its more than 50%. Nevertheless whats your point?
manus
RENSCORP
#46 - 2014-02-25 21:58:58 UTC
I thought the freighter was going to make my life easier but i rarely use it. When i have to pick up alot of stuff i usually take my orca instead. Im mostly picking up ore for reproccesing so its nice to have the extra space in the ore bay. Otherwise the freighter would probably be the better choice. However i wont mind if freighters recieve fitting slots
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#47 - 2014-02-25 22:02:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
53.16% increase from a structure heavy ship. now drop it.

edit- sorry
the point is that not all ships get a 100% boost from DCU II's like u say. The freighter gets a lot more.

if u dnt have DCU II's in freighters, then ok, a little extra tank for a little loss in capacity. but the only reason u want a DCU II is so that u can get ridiculous tank from a single mod. its not balanced, and takes away rewards from ppl who actually put effort into protecting their freighters.

2nd edit-

ganking is a good thing. ganking takes away rewards from those who dnt protect their stuff and lowers supply so that those who do protect their stuff get more money. +effort = +reward.

dumbing down freighters so u get loads of tank with almost the same capacity takes away from that game play.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#48 - 2014-02-25 23:28:20 UTC

Believe it or not, I support fittable freighters. I move stuff around highsec a lot, and would really like the option to optimize it for my performance. That said, I think the OP's suggestions are out of line:


1.) I'm glad your max-hauling fit stayed under the 1m m3 mark. That is important to keep capitals out of highsec.

2.) I 100% believe the DCU should not be fittable to the Freighter. About 75% of a freighter's tank is hull, and that one module doubles it's tank. This should be easy to implement, and really goes a MAJOR way in keeping the tank / agility / capacity in check. Now your 750k EHP Freighter will really be 375k EHP... which is a much more reasonable amount. It essentially is a cheap JF then, that can't jump!

3.) Look at the fitting options: Give it 4 lows, no DCU, no rigs, ~100k Structure, 40k Armor, 5k Shield, and ~350k m3 hold.

Decent Tradeoffs:
Cargo Expanders: Less structure, Less speed. for more cargo.
Bulkheads: Less agility and Less speed for more structure.
Nano: Less structure for more speed and agility.
Overdrives: Less cargo for more speed.

Not so decent tradeoffs:
I-stabs: More agility for bigger sig radius...
W-stabs: +1 Warp stability for less targeting range and scan res.

All Cargo: 100k EHP, 925k m3 capacity.
Hull Tanked: ~300k EHP, 27% less speed, 350k m3 capacity.
Armor Tanked: Alright Resists for RR, 250k EHP, 350k m3 Capacity.
Middle Ground: 2x Cargo Expanders, 2x EANM; 170k EHP, 565k m3 Capacity.
Middle Ground: 2x Cargo, 2x Nano, 100k EHP, 565k m3 Capacity.

These are much more balanced numbers.
No midslots (mwd-to-warp is not a good thing, although this could be inhibited by PG).
No highslots (While cyno freighters are interesting, HELL NO to cloaks).
No rigs (The drawbacks on astraunatic rigs aren't balanced here, although if we removed some lowslots maybe you could add rigs, which would make armor tanking it much more difficult).

Less tank than a JF, but at a much lower cost. Not gank proof, but the extra 100k EHP on a tanky version will increase the isk-value worth ganking threshold.

Also, a 750k EHP freighter is a bad thing because it is extremely difficult to gank. In this game, violence is an acceptable course of action to inhibit other players, and at that EHP level, the coordination to inhibit via violence is too much.
JetStream Drenard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2014-02-26 01:44:06 UTC  |  Edited by: JetStream Drenard
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Believe it or not, I support fittable freighters. I move stuff around highsec a lot, and would really like the option to optimize it for my performance. That said, I think the OP's suggestions are out of line:


1.) I'm glad your max-hauling fit stayed under the 1m m3 mark. That is important to keep capitals out of highsec.

2.) I 100% believe the DCU should not be fittable to the Freighter. About 75% of a freighter's tank is hull, and that one module doubles it's tank. This should be easy to implement, and really goes a MAJOR way in keeping the tank / agility / capacity in check. Now your 750k EHP Freighter will really be 375k EHP... which is a much more reasonable amount. It essentially is a cheap JF then, that can't jump!

3.) Look at the fitting options: Give it 4 lows, no DCU, no rigs, ~100k Structure, 40k Armor, 5k Shield, and ~350k m3 hold.

Decent Tradeoffs:
Cargo Expanders: Less structure, Less speed. for more cargo.
Bulkheads: Less agility and Less speed for more structure.
Nano: Less structure for more speed and agility.
Overdrives: Less cargo for more speed.

Not so decent tradeoffs:
I-stabs: More agility for bigger sig radius...
W-stabs: +1 Warp stability for less targeting range and scan res.

All Cargo: 100k EHP, 925k m3 capacity.
Hull Tanked: ~300k EHP, 27% less speed, 350k m3 capacity.
Armor Tanked: Alright Resists for RR, 250k EHP, 350k m3 Capacity.
Middle Ground: 2x Cargo Expanders, 2x EANM; 170k EHP, 565k m3 Capacity.
Middle Ground: 2x Cargo, 2x Nano, 100k EHP, 565k m3 Capacity.

These are much more balanced numbers.
No midslots (mwd-to-warp is not a good thing, although this could be inhibited by PG).
No highslots (While cyno freighters are interesting, HELL NO to cloaks).
No rigs (The drawbacks on astraunatic rigs aren't balanced here, although if we removed some lowslots maybe you could add rigs, which would make armor tanking it much more difficult).

Less tank than a JF, but at a much lower cost. Not gank proof, but the extra 100k EHP on a tanky version will increase the isk-value worth ganking threshold.

Also, a 750k EHP freighter is a bad thing because it is extremely difficult to gank. In this game, violence is an acceptable course of action to inhibit other players, and at that EHP level, the coordination to inhibit via violence is too much.

There are great arguments both for and against. And this post is kinda a good middle of the road idea that I support, even if i dont understand why he is worried about targeting range and scan resolution. I mean at least this post attempts to make a realistic trade off between cargo and tank. Like Daichi said though and looking at your numbers it seems to really accomplish very little since you had to make such a tremendous sacrifice to be able to potentially gain a little extra tank. Summing up -fixing- it ends up -breaking- it.

I think the point of fittable freighters is not to make it gank proof, cause like Kenrailea said if you are getting shot at you have already done it wrong so lets not derail the topic with gank issues, because I dont think this is what it is about at all. In all fairness, the level of nerfdom that would need to occur to make freighters fittable would probably make them a gankers paradise which also lends itself back to Daichi's point about fixing it would end up breaking it.

I think the point is only to allow a higher value threshold of cargo in order to more effectively utilize all that space. I think, the real negative aspect of this issue. As some have pointed out giving people a means of "safely" transporting more cargo in fewer trips can have a substantial in game economic impact. quotes intentional, dont flame safety, you know what i mean. But that is more a question for the eve economist guy, if this is the case.

Another positive aspect and one I think the OP is driving at is simply being able to customize your 'big box' for different types of transport roles, just like every other utility ship in the game.

I also think armed merchantman ships, aka Q ships are a great idea too. obviously they would have significantly reduced cargo capacity, by orders of magnitude. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=315098
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#50 - 2014-02-26 06:33:58 UTC
I support this idea, however due to the previously mentioned DCU issues I also recommend evening out the HP distribution on the Freighters, moving some of the HP into Armour/Shield so that a single module does not have as much of an impact.
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