EVE General Discussion

I guess it's cool I have a fan now. Where ever I go, there you are yelling my name trying to get my attention.

Hello. How are you?

Are you fine with the fact that people who do bad things to others are bad people themselves?
How does it make you feel, knowing that when you choose to grief someone online, you're also a bad person offline?

I already put my foot in the water.

It was cold. I'll wait until it warms up a bit.

Then there's no need to ask why anymore. You already know why, but have decided that it isn't for you.

Don't be surprised if when you think you are ready, you end up losing massive amounts of ISK in lost ships, because that is what is going to happen.

When I was about a month, maybe a month in a half old in this game. I bought my 2nd Drake. I took my first Drake into wormhole space, and was jumped & pointed by a Loki. I still have that Drake. I shouldn't, but I do.

This is EVE. The water's always gonna be just as cold. It's you that needs to adapt to that cold. If you're waiting for it to warm up, you'll be waiting forever.

Incorrect. That's you adapting a part of yourself to the cold that never changes. But there is more than just skill points to consider as a part of that adaptation. Tell me, what are you learning while you are waiting and doing nothing? Because a big part of adapting to EVE is learning. It's more important than skill points or isk combined, because without knowing what you're doing, neither can be applied with any kind of relevant effect.

In other words, while you're waiting, doing nothing, skilling to fly a Kitsune, you're not actually learning how to use it. You're learning nothing, and when you get in that Kitsune, you're going to continue to lose, and never win, even with all the skill points you think you need, you will keep losing, and never learning. Until you start learning from those losses, which is something you should have already been doing.

And you will lose to players with less than half the skill points you have if you fail to learn. And you will still be frustrated later on, proclaiming on the forums, "why am I being beaten when I have so many skillpoints?" And everyone else will be here saying, "we told you so."

The bottom line is, losing is learning. If you are losing, then there is something to learn from each loss. If you are winning, on the other hand, then you have already learned enough to achieve the wins you've achieved. But you can't win unless you learn, and if you are waiting, then you are not learning.

Eve will always need new players. At the very least, we need them to replace the bittervets on hiatus.

Not really. I don't think most industrial toons build ships so they can be blown up. I think they build them to sell or spin them, and then to tell their friends and corp buddies how they manufactured something complex and/or made a profit. They probably didn't make a profit in reality cause of 'minerals are free', but the purpose is less the profit and more the conversation and socializing.

They manufacture for the sense of achievement and social acknowledgement. Industrial toons in high sec needs corps for that purpose, it's no fun building something and not be able to tell anyone.

I think industrial toons should be offered more lasting projects to participate in, manufacture of community projects like stargates and monuments. One problem with industry is the sheer number of industrial toons, some with the 'minerals are free' mindset.

In this thread i see a lot of PVP oriented players arguing that their preferred corner of EVE is the real EVE, and I think they fail to understand that other parts of the sandbox can be nice to have in the game too, even if they themselves don't like to play in it.

PVP is great, I personally really like high sec wars, but I don't like it all the time or most of the time. I liked EVE for its versatility of gameplay offered. If I am forced by other players not just some of the time, but the majority of time to play in their corner of the sandbox, then I'm gonna leave for the swings from time to time, i.e. play another game. Before I would just go to a different spot in the sandbox and do something there, like missioning, mining or hauling. I can't do that during wars, and wars are more frequent now.

I then ask myself if I really want to pay the admission fee to the sandbox, if I use the swings half the time anyway. EVE is in PVP against other games as well, and as it stands EVE lose more often now for me.

It's about the distribution of time between the different game experiences I can get in the game.

I believe a change of balance favoring the increase of involuntary PVP in EVE will hurt the influx of new players.

It may not hurt the influx of new accounts though, since the change may increase the number of people having two or more accounts, as a meassure to still be able to enjoy the game, when they don't feel like waiting for a griefer to undock etc. But then we are at a point where one account is no longer enough to enjoy the full experience, and the fee of admission just doubled. Do I really want to pay that? What other gaming experiences could I get for that money? What will a new player in EVE answer to these questions?

About Divine, he can play in the PVP corner if he finds someone to fleet with. It's possible to train for a good fleet fit frigate in a couple of days. The problem is to find a good fleet.

Thanks for the clarification on that. Slight misquote, probably due to the silly embedded quote thing if you want to update that. I will admit to liking the idea of some more permanence to construction and industrial applications. I'm not a manufacturer, but I'll haul your materials for you If I had a link readily at hand I'd point you at my thread regarding WiS, which has a strong industrial flavour as well to see what you thought of that.

And I am following bits of the thing about the wars - the idea of being able to cost-free keep wars running seems a bit unbalanced - but I'm not quite understanding why hiring somebody to fight back is not an option. That is probably just because I'm clueless about wars - so can you explain that in more detail, please?

@ Karon.

I am an ex-combat pilot and FC refocusing on non-combat activites, mainly trading. Trading is still PVP because I am competing with other players to make my profit. I gather intel and have my competition watchlisted. Sometimes I'll even convo them to throw them off and gain more intel. I do my research and make a plan to win the market war.

This is not combat, but it's still PVP. That is what this MMO is about. EvE = Everyone vs Everyone. Even mining is PVP because you're competing for resources. Hauling and missioning may seem lacking in PvP but the risk is always there when you undock that someone will blow you up.

I'm not saying your playstyle is wrong but I don't think you fully understand the game if you don't see PvP everywhere. I love industry but there will always be risk involved when you dont have game saves, as is the case in an MMO that punishes you for dying/failing.

Infact, I love industry. Some day I hope to build capitals just to say I can, and the stuff I build through PI is more for novelty than profit. I like the idea of making miniature electronics to sell to the peasants of EVE (I also enjoy the roleplay aspect of the game). Your hope for building stargates are in the works, according to CCP. If you want to get an industrial minded group together and create something then more power to you. This game rewards empire building. Solo play is still viable and can be very rewarding but, as it is true in RL, working in groups will be more beneficial.

Despite this, I must tell you that EVE is a brutal game and should always be that way. For it to change that dynamic would be changing the game into something that the current playerbase didn't pay to play. There will always be people who aren't interested in playing a game for whatever reason, and that's okay. We should not exchange one group of dedicated players for another who may not even stick around. I've tried to get my out-of-game friends to play, even my brother, and none stuck around for long. They loved the concept but didn't want to commit. Though this saddens me I'm okay with that because I understand the things that appeal to EVE players don't appeal to everyone.

For those who don't have more than an hour to play a week you can still enjoy the game. Being the CEO of a corporation, and other time-intensive activites are not possible obviously, but there are many other things to enjoy that don't take hours to do. While I understand RL often impedes playtime, I'm not sure what people expect when they say they don't have the time to do things. The way skilltraining works in this game is even an advantage for those with less time as you can set long queues and forget about it till you find time. This is something rare to MMOs in general.

As to your comments about wardeccing; previously people gave some suggestions about finding allies. However with the situation you described, where a 4-man corp decs dozens of carbears all at once, you don't even need to find mercenaries. Take advantage of the social aspect of the game and convo the other guys who are being harassed and form a joint intel channel. Travel in groups, perhaps have joint ops with the other groups and who knows, maybe the wardec will be the start of an alliance/empire.

It pains me to see people suggest wardeccing is unfair to hisec corporations because truly those people just fail to adapt. You must adapt to survive. Be creative and problem solve. Get a collective of minds together if you can't find a solution and you will succeed. Don't have a defeatist attitude like that "Entervention" fellow and you will thrive.