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Are 1400 projectiles viable in PvE?

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Archaya Afrodwarf
Happy Endings.
Good Sax
#1 - 2014-02-23 16:30:44 UTC
I've trained up for 1400 projectiles to use while ratting and while I enjoy the alpha it seems that because the cycle time is so long it just isn't viable in PvE.

Even if I split the turrets up quite a bit the 17s cycle is pretty brutal when doing anomolies.

So yea, anyone with more experience willing to share their experience? I've noticed most Vargurs use 800's instead.
Lilliana Stelles
#2 - 2014-02-23 17:34:15 UTC
It is doable. Some ships (such as the mach) use a rate of fire bonus. You'll need either webs or range to make them effective. 1400 vargur/tempest use MJD to build enough range.

Not a forum alt. 
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-02-23 18:21:42 UTC
Archaya Afrodwarf wrote:
So yea, anyone with more experience willing to share their experience? I've noticed most Vargurs use 800's instead.
800's are autocannons. They deal more damage than 1400's and track better, but you lose a lot of range. However, on a Vargur, that's not so much of an issue, as you get a huge bonus to range from the ship and then again from the Bastion module. Add that together and the Vargur with 800's will out-range a Maelstrom with 1400's.
For similar reasons, people use 800's on Machariels.

But on ships that don't have such a great fall-off bonus (Maelstrom, Tempest), Artillery is usually preferred in PvE, so you have a choice between 1200's and 1400's. Personally I prefer the 1400's. Yes, the long cycle takes a bit of getting used to, but I just don't group my guns and thus avoid wasting cycles on overkill. Also, as I use a MJD, I've more often the problem of NPCs being too far than too close and the extra range of the 1400's (compared to 1200's) help. Finally, a longer cycle means less ammunition used for the same amount of damage, which makes it much cheaper to use faction ammo.
Miriya Zakalwe
World Wide Welp
#4 - 2014-02-23 23:58:56 UTC
Sorry to ask the obvious, but Gyrostabilizer II, Burst Aerator II, Rapid Firing, etc? Each should knock a couple seconds off.
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-02-24 01:50:45 UTC
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:
Sorry to ask the obvious, but Gyrostabilizer II, Burst Aerator II, Rapid Firing, etc? Each should knock a couple seconds off.
They are all already factored into the 17 seconds the OP talked about.

Without all that, 1400's have a 40 second cycle.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-02-24 02:40:32 UTC
I personally just start to wonder...Do null-sec alliances even communicate with each other. No offence or an attack to the OP or something, but lately I've seen a lot of "new player" questions from people who are new(-ish) and in a null-sec alliance.

Back when I was there, the easiest and quickest way was to just ask in your corp and alliance channel and within seconds you had the answers, tips and more from your fellow members.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Miriya Zakalwe
World Wide Welp
#7 - 2014-02-24 03:15:28 UTC
Thomas Builder wrote:
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:
Sorry to ask the obvious, but Gyrostabilizer II, Burst Aerator II, Rapid Firing, etc? Each should knock a couple seconds off.
They are all already factored into the 17 seconds the OP talked about.

Without all that, 1400's have a 40 second cycle.


Ahh, ok, good. I don't know jack about battleships.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-02-24 03:57:08 UTC
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:
Thomas Builder wrote:
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:
Sorry to ask the obvious, but Gyrostabilizer II, Burst Aerator II, Rapid Firing, etc? Each should knock a couple seconds off.
They are all already factored into the 17 seconds the OP talked about.

Without all that, 1400's have a 40 second cycle.


Ahh, ok, good. I don't know jack about battleships.


Or Tier 3'sBlink

1400s aren't limited to battleships anymoreP

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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Miriya Zakalwe
World Wide Welp
#9 - 2014-02-24 10:34:45 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:
Thomas Builder wrote:
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:
Sorry to ask the obvious, but Gyrostabilizer II, Burst Aerator II, Rapid Firing, etc? Each should knock a couple seconds off.
They are all already factored into the 17 seconds the OP talked about.

Without all that, 1400's have a 40 second cycle.


Ahh, ok, good. I don't know jack about battleships.


Or Tier 3'sBlink

1400s aren't limited to battleships anymoreP


Or Tornados!

I really should train large guns. Being unable to ganknado is simply poor form.
Keno Skir
#10 - 2014-02-24 12:04:48 UTC
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Or Tier 3'sBlink


Or Tornados!


Hehe.

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

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Miriya Zakalwe
World Wide Welp
#11 - 2014-02-24 12:50:12 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Or Tier 3'sBlink


Or Tornados!


Hehe.


D'oh. Misread that one as "tech 3" :)
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-02-24 13:34:17 UTC
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Or Tier 3'sBlink


Or Tornados!


Hehe.


D'oh. Misread that one as "tech 3" :)


Lol.

Yes. Vet here who just doesnt like how they gave thr new names and got rid of the tier system.. they will always stay Tier 3 BCs to me.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#13 - 2014-02-24 15:43:29 UTC
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:
D'oh. Misread that one as "tech 3" :)

Now that's a scary thought. T3 cruisers with battleship weapons.

J'Poll wrote:
Yes. Vet here who just doesnt like how they gave thr new names and got rid of the tier system.. they will always stay Tier 3 BCs to me.

For less ambiguity you could just call them ABCs (Attack BCs). Symbolizes the relative simplicity of their purpose, too.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

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I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#14 - 2014-02-24 17:58:10 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
I personally just start to wonder...Do null-sec alliances even communicate with each other. No offence or an attack to the OP or something, but lately I've seen a lot of "new player" questions from people who are new(-ish) and in a null-sec alliance.

Back when I was there, the easiest and quickest way was to just ask in your corp and alliance channel and within seconds you had the answers, tips and more from your fellow members.


He's in a renting corp. Overwhelmingly a different experience.

To answer the OPs question another way, depending on the anomaly and what you're shooting, 1200's can be the better choice due to tracking, and not gimping your fit. Autocannons are generally better, but if you need to use Barrage for range, and your rats are not Expl/kin weak, you lose a lot of range or damage switching to, say, EM.

You can use mocked-up resist profiles in EFT to simulate this.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#15 - 2014-02-24 18:27:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Archaya Afrodwarf wrote:
I've trained up for 1400 projectiles to use while ratting and while I enjoy the alpha it seems that because the cycle time is so long it just isn't viable in PvE.

Even if I split the turrets up quite a bit the 17s cycle is pretty brutal when doing anomolies.

So yea, anyone with more experience willing to share their experience? I've noticed most Vargurs use 800's instead.

I've used 1400's on a Maelstrom for missions. Worked fine.

I'm currently using a Vargur. It has a falloff with EMP / Phased Plasma / Fusion of 62 km. It tears averything up!

The Vargur works well with autoCannons, as it is fast enough to get into the middle of a crowd with the MWD, and then take all the damage while in bastion mode (note: when it gets real bad, overheating the hardeners for a cycle or two is enough to deal with even pulling the entire room, and the hardeners can be overheated for a lot longer than that, typically 2-3 minutes if needed). I wouldn't do the same with a Maelstrom; a micro jump drive (MJD) makes sniping with 1400's trivial.

EDIT: I should add that MJD are immune to NPC warp disruptors.
Archaya Afrodwarf
Happy Endings.
Good Sax
#16 - 2014-02-25 20:31:41 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:

He's in a renting corp. Overwhelmingly a different experience.


Truth. Damn filthy renters.

Khanh'rhh wrote:

To answer the OPs question another way, depending on the anomaly and what you're shooting, 1200's can be the better choice due to tracking, and not gimping your fit. Autocannons are generally better, but if you need to use Barrage for range, and your rats are not Expl/kin weak, you lose a lot of range or damage switching to, say, EM.

You can use mocked-up resist profiles in EFT to simulate this.


Yea, currently using EM for the space I'm in so my range does go down quite a bit.

Anyhow thanks everyone for the extra info. I'll have to try making smaller groups of weapons and seeing if I can't get it to work well. Seems the Oracle just might be the best bet for me, but I'd like to switch things up here and there as well. :p
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-02-26 02:35:36 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
I personally just start to wonder...Do null-sec alliances even communicate with each other. No offence or an attack to the OP or something, but lately I've seen a lot of "new player" questions from people who are new(-ish) and in a null-sec alliance.

Back when I was there, the easiest and quickest way was to just ask in your corp and alliance channel and within seconds you had the answers, tips and more from your fellow members.


He's in a renting corp. Overwhelmingly a different experience.
.


Still he is in a corporation that he decided to join

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2014-02-26 11:47:31 UTC
I've gone through this myself with missioning and I feel that 1400's are not useful in PvE. The 1200s not only have a shorter cycle time but twice the capacity and with 10 second reloads that makes a huge difference with sustained DPS not to mention the much slower tracking on the 1400's which in most cases means less delivered DPS.

One big thing to note in PvE is that large Volley numbers with huge cycle times are a bad thing not good. If you get a volley or two off and have a rat at 5% hull then your next volley is like 90% overkill so you waste all of that dps on overkill

Ships like the Vargur and Machariel can be fit to get you out to 70K optimal + falloff and with the much better tracking not only will your theoretical dps be much higher but delivered dps much higher as well not to mention the shorter cycle times and lower volleys means less wasted damage.

TLDR; 1200s much better for almost every PvE situation and large ACs more useful on ships with a falloff bonus. Also EFT only give theoretical dps. The tracking of the 1400s is only really effective on things the size of a BS or larger and even then out past optimal into falloff.

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