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Give new players free SP

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Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-02-24 16:15:00 UTC
Perhaps you would rather SP be gained through the killing of NPC? I'll pass on that. I did my share of xp grinding for over 10 years in Everquest.

The way eve has you set up to passively gain SP is fine by me.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2014-02-24 16:17:00 UTC
Highsec people are so unfriendly to newbies, its just a newbie making an uninformed assertion. This is another reason highsec needs to be nerfed, we don't need to encourage this newbie hostility.

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#43 - 2014-02-24 16:17:04 UTC
Caviar Liberta wrote:
Perhaps you would rather SP be gained through the killing of NPC? I'll pass on that. I did my share of xp grinding for over 10 years in Everquest.

The way eve has you set up to passively gain SP is fine by me.


If SP were gained through the killing of NPCs I'd have 4 billion skill points by now and would be able to fly planets lol.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-02-24 16:17:09 UTC
Alice Ituin wrote:
Grunanca wrote:


Erhm no? I live in low sec too... Looked up my own stats and found my top 3 in killtypes for the last few months:

Battleships killed 129
Battlecruisers killed 103
Cruisers killed 89

My alliance tends to fight a lot of different places in low sec, so would say my stats cover low sec pretty well.

The only place I see you guys in low sec is either near a titan or a cyno. Shouldn't be really surprising that you mostly catch slow moving battleships.
The average low sec population however travels by gate, in which case BS are incredibly impractical.


Shadow Cartel gets plenty of fights from faction warfare players also.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#45 - 2014-02-24 16:20:08 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
I'm suggesting that new players should start the game with the skills to fully t2 fit a frigate and cruiser of their choice.
This would have minimal repercussions for veterans, and encourage a ton of new people to subscribe to the game.
You don't really consider a lot of things here.
Firstly, that the minimum SP thing that most corps have isn't just a "you must fly T2" requirement. Part of it is security and part of it is know the player knows at least part of the game and likes it enough to stay. If all players started with a bunch of SP, that bar would just be higher, then we'd be in the same position.

Also, the assumption that letting people skip T1 would have no impact on the game is absurd. The T1 market would pretty much collapse. Noobies use T1 modules and T1 ships working their way up. if you suddenly gave them the option of skipping that, you'd drastically reduce the demand for T1 ships and modules.

Then you've got the issue of restriction. How do you ensure the newbies are using their SP to go the way you expect them to? They might dump it all in social skills or corp management. Now they have a bunch of useless skills because they didn't know what to put it in. All the while, us vets are starting alts and dumping it straight into trade skills or PI. Boom, instant alts.

Then you have the character bazaar. The influx of character with base SP would drastically alter the value of character, especially if you could leave it an unspent SP ready to go. The cost to produce a character would decrease, meaning they can undercut the prices of the existing market, then say "by the way Xm SP is unspent ready to be put into whatever you want". So this change would have to go hand in hand with the same amount of free SP for all currently created characters.

All in all, I don't think you've thought about it half as much as you need to to state that it is balanced and without repercussions.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Charlie Firpol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2014-02-24 16:21:47 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Caviar Liberta wrote:
Perhaps you would rather SP be gained through the killing of NPC? I'll pass on that. I did my share of xp grinding for over 10 years in Everquest.

The way eve has you set up to passively gain SP is fine by me.


If SP were gained through the killing of NPCs I'd have 4 billion skill points by now and would be able to fly planets lol.


And I could barely fly a noob frigate xD

@ Shadow Cartel: you guys basically are in a niche. Most of lowsec residents fight in cruisers and smaller.

The Butcher of Black Rise - eve-radio.com
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#47 - 2014-02-24 16:25:23 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Hi.
I'd like to propose a change that I think would be very good for EVE and attract a lot of new players.

Give new accounts free SP.
One of the most common reasons newbies give up on EVE is that they see it will take 60+ days to fly an effective cruiser, and ragequit.
The problem only gets worse when you consider higher level ships, or training other races' skills.
Many prestigious corporations in EVE will require you to have a full T2 fit battleship, HAC, or even capital ship before they consider your application.

Add support skills into the mix (as a new player your drones do 20% less damage for example) and you have a really discouraging formula.

This IMO, as time goes by, will be EVE's biggest problem. New player retention.

And before you say it's the fault of the community, and that they don't support newbs— it simply isn't true.
Newbs are looked after very well by corporations like E-UNI and BNI.
The help channels actively answer new players' questions, usually in a quick and helpful fashion.

Before you object— this would not cause imbalance.
Having a bunch more t2 fit tier one cruisers in the game would make hardly any difference at all to the strategic landscape.
New players would still be hundreds of days away from the heavy hitting ships like Dreadnoughts and Carriers.
I'm not suggesting the training time for the top level stuff be reduced— having more titan pilots in EVE would not be a good thing.

I'm suggesting that new players should start the game with the skills to fully t2 fit a frigate and cruiser of their choice.
This would have minimal repercussions for veterans, and encourage a ton of new people to subscribe to the game.


this is already possible, hint: this way => https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=277

see, no problemRoll
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#48 - 2014-02-24 16:28:49 UTC
Alice Ituin wrote:
Grunanca wrote:


Erhm no? I live in low sec too... Looked up my own stats and found my top 3 in killtypes for the last few months:

Battleships killed 129
Battlecruisers killed 103
Cruisers killed 89

My alliance tends to fight a lot of different places in low sec, so would say my stats cover low sec pretty well.

The only place I see you guys in low sec is either near a titan or a cyno. Shouldn't be really surprising that you mostly catch slow moving battleships.
The average low sec population however travels by gate, in which case BS are incredibly impractical.


I've tangled with Shadow Cartel on several occasions, not one of those occasions had a cyno involved, normal or otherwise...they've bitchslapped me about before and vice versa. All fights I've had with them have been pretty awesome to be honest.

Alternatively, if you want to see Battleships in lowsec, go to Sechmaren, Hiremir, Bersymaren (Kador Region). There's nearly always a Battleship or Command ship in them systems.

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Victor Andall
#49 - 2014-02-24 16:32:03 UTC
Cassia Aetius wrote:
Victor Andall wrote:
Then why do you talk like an entitled clueless noob?

No, really, I hate to contribute to the toxicity of the forums, but this is how I see it.

If a new player quits because he can't fly a Dominix during his first day we probably don't want him around anyway.



"We" as in CCP? I doubt CCP shares your thoughts, regardless of who people are, and how they play, players = money in the bank.



Unless I'm part of CCP and unaware of it then no. I did not mean that. Why would you even...

I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?

19.08.2014 - Dinsdale gets slammed by CCP Falcon. Never forget.
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#50 - 2014-02-24 16:59:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Azami Nevinyrall
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Hi.
I'd like to propose a change that I think would be very good for EVE and attract a lot of new players.

Give new accounts free SP.
One of the most common reasons newbies give up on EVE is that they see it will take 60+ days to fly an effective cruiser, and ragequit.
The problem only gets worse when you consider higher level ships, or training other races' skills.
Many prestigious corporations in EVE will require you to have a full T2 fit battleship, HAC, or even capital ship before they consider your application.

Add support skills into the mix (as a new player your drones do 20% less damage for example) and you have a really discouraging formula.

This IMO, as time goes by, will be EVE's biggest problem. New player retention.

And before you say it's the fault of the community, and that they don't support newbs— it simply isn't true.
Newbs are looked after very well by corporations like E-UNI and BNI.
The help channels actively answer new players' questions, usually in a quick and helpful fashion.

Before you object— this would not cause imbalance.
Having a bunch more t2 fit tier one cruisers in the game would make hardly any difference at all to the strategic landscape.
New players would still be hundreds of days away from the heavy hitting ships like Dreadnoughts and Carriers.
I'm not suggesting the training time for the top level stuff be reduced— having more titan pilots in EVE would not be a good thing.

I'm suggesting that new players should start the game with the skills to fully t2 fit a frigate and cruiser of their choice.
This would have minimal repercussions for veterans, and encourage a ton of new people to subscribe to the game.


This isn't a bad idea, just tweak it a little bit.

For example!

Nothing is stopping a Newbro from buying a few PLEX with IRL cash to buy a starter toon from the character bazaar. So, there's already ways for a new player to get into bigger and heavier ships within an hour of signing up!

A great idea would be to give new ACCTS an option to buy a maximum of 2-3 Mil SP that would go into their SP pool. When they first start the game. This wouldn't break anything considering you can purchase a 100 Mil SP toon and fly practically anything within hours of starting the game.

...
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#51 - 2014-02-24 17:23:16 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Hi.
I'd like to propose a change that I think would be very good for EVE and attract a lot of new players.

Give new accounts free SP.
One of the most common reasons newbies give up on EVE is that they see it will take 60+ days to fly an effective cruiser, and ragequit.
The problem only gets worse when you consider higher level ships, or training other races' skills.
Many prestigious corporations in EVE will require you to have a full T2 fit battleship, HAC, or even capital ship before they consider your application.

Add support skills into the mix (as a new player your drones do 20% less damage for example) and you have a really discouraging formula.

This IMO, as time goes by, will be EVE's biggest problem. New player retention.

And before you say it's the fault of the community, and that they don't support newbs— it simply isn't true.
Newbs are looked after very well by corporations like E-UNI and BNI.
The help channels actively answer new players' questions, usually in a quick and helpful fashion.

Before you object— this would not cause imbalance.
Having a bunch more t2 fit tier one cruisers in the game would make hardly any difference at all to the strategic landscape.
New players would still be hundreds of days away from the heavy hitting ships like Dreadnoughts and Carriers.
I'm not suggesting the training time for the top level stuff be reduced— having more titan pilots in EVE would not be a good thing.

I'm suggesting that new players should start the game with the skills to fully t2 fit a frigate and cruiser of their choice.
This would have minimal repercussions for veterans, and encourage a ton of new people to subscribe to the game.


This isn't a bad idea, just tweak it a little bit.

For example!

Nothing is stopping a Newbro from buying a few PLEX with IRL cash to buy a starter toon from the character bazaar. So, there's already ways for a new player to get into bigger and heavier ships within an hour of signing up!

A great idea would be to give new ACCTS an option to buy a maximum of 2-3 Mil SP that would go into their SP pool. When they first start the game. This wouldn't break anything considering you can purchase a 100 Mil SP toon and fly practically anything within hours of starting the game.

yes there is a difference.

the entry level.

to actually be worse selling, a toon need a minimum of skills, and will be worth more than at least 4 plex, since 2 are used to cover the transfert.

meaning the actual minimum for "power leveling sp" is a 4 PLEX worth toon, wich is WAY more than 2-3M SP toon.

also, since they are not that much valuable (when you factor in he game time required to train such a low sp toon), they tend to be scarce offer.

this is on purpose, to specificaly make the "pay to win" (even if this is not really pay to win) level high enought.

plus, from the gae pov, this would be SP printing, when the current situation is not, SP change hands, but is not created.
Dace Onio
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2014-02-24 17:33:51 UTC
I dont believe anyone should be giving anything for free, i do believe upon character creation though the current skills that have been trained may/could be better distributed to suit needs/tastes, why not just give new characters the sp instead of the trained skills? or recreate the character creator an include in it a choice of career an distribute the SP into relevant skills for the job they pick.

Probably to much work an a job CCP feels they dont need to do
Eleanor Wish
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2014-02-24 17:41:30 UTC
Please do this so I can make new gank and cyno alts without paying for DCT. Thanks.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#54 - 2014-02-24 17:43:22 UTC
Dace Onio wrote:
I dont believe anyone should be giving anything for free, i do believe upon character creation though the current skills that have been trained may/could be better distributed to suit needs/tastes, why not just give new characters the sp instead of the trained skills?
For much the same reason why they did away with the old career creation process (with race, ancestry, school and all that): because they're newbies. They have no idea what is a good and a bad way to spend the SP.

Right now, you learn what you need as you go. And as you learn what you need, you also learn to support the lifestyle you're building. It's an organic process that creates informed decisions (as long as there aren't any n00bcorp chat channel griefers around to fill your head with nonsense).

The idea of pre-defined ideas, while better, fall into much the same trap: they have no idea what they'll end up liking and they should definitely not be given the impression that this is a class-based game — that what they pick now is what they'll do in the future. Giving ample information and education and enabling choice is just a far better route to go.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#55 - 2014-02-24 17:48:18 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Hi.
I'd like to propose a change that I think would be very good for EVE and attract a lot of new players.

Give new accounts free SP.
One of the most common reasons newbies give up on EVE is that they see it will take 60+ days to fly an effective cruiser, and ragequit.
The problem only gets worse when you consider higher level ships, or training other races' skills.
Many prestigious corporations in EVE will require you to have a full T2 fit battleship, HAC, or even capital ship before they consider your application.

Add support skills into the mix (as a new player your drones do 20% less damage for example) and you have a really discouraging formula.

This IMO, as time goes by, will be EVE's biggest problem. New player retention.

And before you say it's the fault of the community, and that they don't support newbs— it simply isn't true.
Newbs are looked after very well by corporations like E-UNI and BNI.
The help channels actively answer new players' questions, usually in a quick and helpful fashion.

Before you object— this would not cause imbalance.
Having a bunch more t2 fit tier one cruisers in the game would make hardly any difference at all to the strategic landscape.
New players would still be hundreds of days away from the heavy hitting ships like Dreadnoughts and Carriers.
I'm not suggesting the training time for the top level stuff be reduced— having more titan pilots in EVE would not be a good thing.

I'm suggesting that new players should start the game with the skills to fully t2 fit a frigate and cruiser of their choice.
This would have minimal repercussions for veterans, and encourage a ton of new people to subscribe to the game.


No.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Ai Shun
#56 - 2014-02-24 17:57:51 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
I'm suggesting that new players should start the game with the skills to fully t2 fit a frigate and cruiser of their choice. This would have minimal repercussions for veterans, and encourage a ton of new people to subscribe to the game.


Diamond Zerg wrote:
Yeah, but plenty also quit.


"a ton" and "plenty" are not good words to use. If you'd said New player retention would be increased by between 10% and 15% and the average is for 30% of new players to the inability to fly a Cruiser during their trial period in the exit survey I may have believed you.

But, you're just making **** up and it doesn't seem as if you have anything beyond a feeling to back it up.

EVE is a long term game. Accelerating that removes a valuable lesson that new players need to learn - to plan for the future and play their way towards their goals in EVE. All your proposal would do is move the barrier to entry for them.

No, bad idea.
Kamai en Bauldry
Cosmos Industrial
Cosmos Origins
#57 - 2014-02-24 18:14:23 UTC
May I speak as a noob you're trying to help? NO. Part of this game is about figuring out how to do better knowing what you can't do. I don't mind that I can't fly anything better than a Frigate right now. I don't mind that I'm not on the same playing field as the vet manufacturers. It's already clear that this game rewards creativity/ingenuity more than it rewards bigger numbers, and how better to teach that then playing when you don't have all of the big numbers?

As far as having full skills to fit a T2 frigate? As I'm getting the different pieces of skills and parts, that also feels like leveling up.
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#58 - 2014-02-24 18:26:12 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
They did try giving new players free SP when they started for a while. If I remember right, was like 800k SPs. And it didn't last long. Why? Dunno, probably because it didn't work as planned or something.


Before when you first started every character would start with something like 800K skillpoints that would be mixed around in certain skills that was related to choices you made during the character generation. You could not actually choose your self what skills you wanted these SP put in, thus many people ended up having SP in skills they actually had no interest in at all.

This system was around for years, and i cant remember exactly when they got rid of it.

Now what they do is that you create a character and for a certain time period (think its actually until you have about 1.5 mill sp?) your training speed is increased by 100%.


Phoibe Enterprises

The Eve Reader -  Audio Recordings of Eve Chronicles
Blue Harrier
#59 - 2014-02-24 18:30:10 UTC
It’s weird but for the last few days I’ve re-activated an old account to re-learn some aspects of Eve because I’ve not played much for some time and the game has changed a lot.

I’ve made a new character and started from scratch doing all the tutorials etc just like a newcomer would, and while doing this I have not noticed one comment in any of the noob chat complaining about lack of skills. In fact most chat seems to be about what skills to train and people rejoicing when they reach a certain level and achieve that aim.

I say leave as is, let each have his/her moment of achievement, like watching your kids grow up, the time is soon gone and you can never turn the clock back.

"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
#60 - 2014-02-24 18:38:56 UTC  |  Edited by: AFK Hauler
Oh wait, this is a totally new concept, right?


The problem is that you do not have any fair use for that t1 frigate that returns a feeling of usefulness.
You grow board ratting or what not and think you should skill faster into the next ship class that you will, once again, become bored with. The cycle is vicious and never ending until you are in a capitol ship with the same problem.


Finding a group to fly with and making yourself useful with a t1 frigate will make all the difference in the "feeling" of a long time to train the next ship class.

Plenty of corporations are looking for that fast tackle frigate pilot who is willing to learn how to fly it properly... "properly" is not just undocking and warping to target.


tl;dr - no