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War Declaration: Could be better, let's fix it.
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Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#101 - 2014-02-24 04:18:53 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
and u try to say i cant read?

The gods of wisdom has smiled upon you. It took literally 15 attempts to tell you that and you finally caught it!

Daichi Yamato wrote:
u say ur experienced but have never been able to mine under the watch of corpies during a dec. uve never had an ally in ur war dec attack and kill aggressors. u say u've successfully ran away from all forms of PvP, so i doubt uve actually taken part in player vs player combat besides getting ur afk hauler miner destroyed.

What's the point of the watch anyway? You can't undock, corpies can't undock either, nothing to watch, nothing to do. Anyone who undocks just gets docked in his medical clone station anyway.
What's the point of allies if the enemy is invulnerable? Waste of ISK.
I've never lost a mining barge. Not to player, not to NPC, not to anything else. The closest I got to losing it is getting myself distracted on the move by the call from my job, which turned into 3 hours of hanging on the gate in the depth of Providence. I regained awareness of my space self when local who cleared npc spawns from my hanging procurer started locking me for giggles.

Daichi Yamato wrote:
u dnt know what is meant by the 'sandbox'. u dnt know what PvP is and the only element of PvP that ur aware exists ur still clueless about. u express ur opinion as fact despite large amounts of evidence to the contrary. u make baseless accusations and ad hominem attacks against everyone else in the thread.

Your meaning of sandbox is quite ********, but that's expected from someone of your ignorance.
Let me give you another repeat, I know you need those: Combat pvp part of eve is insignificant locked-out part, which many people won't ever bother to try more than once, due to the process being extremely SP-dependent, and lucking any fun factor whatsoever.
You know you should look in the mirror first? After at least 5 cases of severe ad hominem, you accuse others of it? Mine are never alone, almost always are a reaction to the ad hominem of others, and always have a reason pretext.
You provided ZERO evidence of whatsoever, so stop using the word evidence when talking about your delusional limited view on a sandbox.

Daichi Yamato wrote:
other than docking up at the first sign of trouble, what is it that u are so experienced in?

I'm finding it impossible to stay on topic when u'd rather just call everyone names.

requesting thread lock.

Ah, so now we ran out of arguments and crying to lock the thread, trying to snuggle that e-peen warming last word in?
I know my chances. War dec is zero reward pointless risk if you decide to undock, so undocking during current war dec system is stupid.
You calling me names all days, then say it's me who's calling names on everyone? That is just gold, sir, the height of your ignorance never ceases to impress me. Do you troll here often?

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Linkxsc162534
Silent Scourge
#102 - 2014-02-24 06:16:21 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:

What's the point of the watch anyway? You can't undock, corpies can't undock either, nothing to watch, nothing to do. Anyone who undocks just gets docked in his medical clone station anyway.
What's the point of allies if the enemy is invulnerable? Waste of ISK.
I've never lost a mining barge. Not to player, not to NPC, not to anything else. The closest I got to losing it is getting myself distracted on the move by the call from my job, which turned into 3 hours of hanging on the gate in the depth of Providence. I regained awareness of my space self when local who cleared npc spawns from my hanging procurer started locking me for giggles.

Your meaning of sandbox is quite ********, but that's expected from someone of your ignorance.
Let me give you another repeat, I know you need those: Combat pvp part of eve is insignificant locked-out part, which many people won't ever bother to try more than once, due to the process being extremely SP-dependent, and lucking any fun factor whatsoever.
You know you should look in the mirror first? After at least 5 cases of severe ad hominem, you accuse others of it? Mine are never alone, almost always are a reaction to the ad hominem of others, and always have a reason pretext.
You provided ZERO evidence of whatsoever, so stop using the word evidence when talking about your delusional limited view on a sandbox.

Ah, so now we ran out of arguments and crying to lock the thread, trying to snuggle that e-peen warming last word in?
I know my chances. War dec is zero reward pointless risk if you decide to undock, so undocking during current war dec system is stupid.
You calling me names all days, then say it's me who's calling names on everyone? That is just gold, sir, the height of your ignorance never ceases to impress me. Do you troll here often?



Ok 1, Why can't you undock? Cause WTs are in system. Youre corps not organized to the point that you have spare mining ships stored in another system with a JC waiting. You see WTs blobbing up on your regular area you work in. LEAVE, it'll take them plenty of time to make it all the way across HS to your other operations system and find you.
And the enemy isn't invulnerable. If they're out there trying to kill you, then they're vulnerable. Trust me.
Congrats on never losing a mining barge. I haven't either, big accomplishment u hear. Lot harder to lose one when you run and hide in a station for a week every time you get decced. I haven't lost one to mining in null/low/WH, or any ship to combat that I hadn't decided to be part of, with the exception of 1 CNR back before modern crimewatch was put in. It's not much of an accomplishment.

"Combat pvp part of eve is [an?] insignificant locked-out part, which many people won't ever bother to try more than once, due to the process being extremely SP-dependent, and lucking [lacking] any fun factor whatsoever." In particular makes me chuckle.
I've lost ships to PVP being flown by lower skilled players, and higher skilled players. SP matters to PVP combat about as much as whether or not I just took a leak. Yeah you do need a baseline amount of sp in combat related skills. But a 2 week char flying around in a wolf or rifter, is a surprisingly large power in small group PVP. And when you don't fear it like the plague, PVP CAN be fun. Even for a carebear like me (hence why I went and joined a lowrat corp, but then had to ship out to work for a few months and haven't gotten to shoot anything yet)

Also. its an "insignificant locked out part" are you high? Everything in Eve, ends up coming back to PVP. you mission to get money for PVP. Miners and indys make stuff for players to use to shoot eachother. We're not communists here, theres no big happy eve family, because that's not this game. Yeah theres some people out there who may not want to PVP themselves, but all the work they do helps someone PVP down the road.
And how is it locked out?
High SP requirements to get involved with it. Really untrue. Yeah coming from 0, to get into say a maxxed out HAC or t3, you might end up spending a few months. But if you're playing the game regularly, and vary your skills a bit (hell most indys I know ingame that are a year old are all capable of doing L4s in a T3 with atleast 1 of their alts) then you shoudl be mostly prepared for a scuffle here or there. Realize it doesn't matter to me much anymore, when it comes to subcap skills I can fly almost anything now years later, but within my second month, I was already fighting off gankers in a WH, in my drake.


Now I've said it before and I'll say it again. You really should step up your game a bit. Rather than whining of "unjust wardecs" you should "waste a month of precious mining time" and go learn to fight. And drag some corp newbies with you. Lrn to fight. And when baddies come. Stomp em in the nuts. I think its great that the longer this thread goes on, the more I'm siding with the deccers. My friend Miguel would be shouting traitor at me.
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#103 - 2014-02-24 06:33:36 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
No.

1,000 times no.

This described mechanic is bad and you should feel bad for suggesting it. Once you remove the non-consensual nature of wars by allowing corporations or alliances to escape wars based on the size of their wallet, you have simply lost the plot.

I further recommend the following, because the current wardec mechanics have already swung the pendulum too far in protecting pansy's and carebears from EvE's HTFU core axiom..

- Anyone leaving a corp under war dec like a pansy enters a one-week stasis period (or until war ends)
- NPC corp tax rates should be increased to 50-60%, so players are discouraged from hiding out there forever like pansy's
- All wardec fees paid to CONCORD should actually go into a bucket the defender can claim based on agressor ships killed, to inspire war-decced carebears not to be pansy's
- Players should get a 'Do you still wish to stay logged in? Y/N' prompt every 15 minutes of mouse inactivity, so that pansy carebears can't AFK in stations or cloaked in space

That is all...

F




Wow, the level of disdain that you have for people who dont want to be bullied by you is awe inspiring. As the reigning king of highsec wardeccing your words speak true to the ideals of your kind. If youre such hardasses go to low and nullsec and stop picking on those you know cant defend themselves.It never ceases to amaze me how asshurt you guys get when the person you were trying to 30v1 gets away.

I really cant believe this. A year since I started playing eve and you trolls are still wardeccing and camping every highsec corp thats smaller than you. Wow.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#104 - 2014-02-24 07:19:53 UTC
Linkxsc162534 wrote:
Ok 1, Why can't you undock? Cause WTs are in system. Youre corps not organized to the point that you have spare mining ships stored in another system with a JC waiting. You see WTs blobbing up on your regular area you work in. LEAVE, it'll take them plenty of time to make it all the way across HS to your other operations system and find you.
And the enemy isn't invulnerable. If they're out there trying to kill you, then they're vulnerable. Trust me.
Congrats on never losing a mining barge. I haven't either, big accomplishment u hear. Lot harder to lose one when you run and hide in a station for a week every time you get decced. I haven't lost one to mining in null/low/WH, or any ship to combat that I hadn't decided to be part of, with the exception of 1 CNR back before modern crimewatch was put in. It's not much of an accomplishment.

WTs are not in the system, but if you undock, they will be.
The enemy would not come in beatable fleet, so it's not vulnerable.
Trust is among the worst arguments you can bring on the table. Evidence please.

Linkxsc162534 wrote:
"Combat pvp part of eve is [an?] insignificant locked-out part, which many people won't ever bother to try more than once, due to the process being extremely SP-dependent, and lucking [lacking] any fun factor whatsoever." In particular makes me chuckle.
I've lost ships to PVP being flown by lower skilled players, and higher skilled players. SP matters to PVP combat about as much as whether or not I just took a leak. Yeah you do need a baseline amount of sp in combat related skills. But a 2 week char flying around in a wolf or rifter, is a surprisingly large power in small group PVP. And when you don't fear it like the plague, PVP CAN be fun. Even for a carebear like me (hence why I went and joined a lowrat corp, but then had to ship out to work for a few months and haven't gotten to shoot anything yet)

SP is everything, it makes ships different by an order of magnitude in parameters. More SP usually means automatic victory.
For entry-level combat pvp proficiency I estimate about 40 million SP is needed. Anything less just won't hold.
War dec are blob warfare, not a small group pvp. No matter how many frigs you bring, bigger SP blob would blob you.
You need a lot of 2 week chars to make a difference against single proper pvp char.
I don't fear pvp, I just don't see a reason to engage in zero-fun activity which requires a lot of SP investment and gives no return.

Linkxsc162534 wrote:
Also. its an "insignificant locked out part" are you high? Everything in Eve, ends up coming back to PVP. you mission to get money for PVP. Miners and indys make stuff for players to use to shoot eachother. We're not communists here, theres no big happy eve family, because that's not this game. Yeah theres some people out there who may not want to PVP themselves, but all the work they do helps someone PVP down the road.

There is immensely bigger part involved in shipping those ships at the lowest price. Then they go pop in blobs in fractions of a second. So yes, combat pvp is insignificantly tiny part of the picture.

Linkxsc162534 wrote:
And how is it locked out?
High SP requirements to get involved with it. Really untrue. Yeah coming from 0, to get into say a maxxed out HAC or t3, you might end up spending a few months. But if you're playing the game regularly, and vary your skills a bit (hell most indys I know ingame that are a year old are all capable of doing L4s in a T3 with atleast 1 of their alts) then you shoudl be mostly prepared for a scuffle here or there. Realize it doesn't matter to me much anymore, when it comes to subcap skills I can fly almost anything now years later, but within my second month, I was already fighting off gankers in a WH, in my drake.

SP requirements are not high, you just need more than the next guy. If the next guy registered earlier and continues to increase his SP, you will never reach him, which makes him a winner at every pvp attempt by definition of higher skill points advantage, until after 4-5 years your difference would shrink to the point where other factors would start being important.
However, in this hopeless race, the only winning move is to get +5 implants and not to play.
wh might be not a blob warfare, and it's hard to scout it, which makes it a pvp area of other plane. But it's not related to the topic, so I would leave it for other discussion.

Linkxsc162534 wrote:
Now I've said it before and I'll say it again. You really should step up your game a bit. Rather than whining of "unjust wardecs" you should "waste a month of precious mining time" and go learn to fight. And drag some corp newbies with you. Lrn to fight. And when baddies come. Stomp em in the nuts. I think its great that the longer this thread goes on, the more I'm siding with the deccers. My friend Miguel would be shouting traitor at me.

Learning to fight... for what? Baddies come in invincible blobs orders of magnitude higher in SP than you have. No matter how much you learn, you won't reach their numbers. No matter how much you train, you won't reach their SP, since they also train.
So you cannot stop baddies. Withing current system, stopping baddies is impossible. If you accidentally undock, they will help you back to your medical clone station right away.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#105 - 2014-02-24 10:35:24 UTC
Heh, the current iteration of WarDecs has the following Conflict Objectives:

For the aggressor, shoot at as many ships as you can in a week.
For the defender, don't get ******* shot this week.

Hardly seems interesting or emergent yea?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#106 - 2014-02-24 10:46:07 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:

Linkxsc162534 wrote:
"Combat pvp part of eve is [an?] insignificant locked-out part, which many people won't ever bother to try more than once, due to the process being extremely SP-dependent, and lucking [lacking] any fun factor whatsoever." In particular makes me chuckle.
I've lost ships to PVP being flown by lower skilled players, and higher skilled players. SP matters to PVP combat about as much as whether or not I just took a leak. Yeah you do need a baseline amount of sp in combat related skills. But a 2 week char flying around in a wolf or rifter, is a surprisingly large power in small group PVP. And when you don't fear it like the plague, PVP CAN be fun. Even for a carebear like me (hence why I went and joined a lowrat corp, but then had to ship out to work for a few months and haven't gotten to shoot anything yet)

SP is everything, it makes ships different by an order of magnitude in parameters. More SP usually means automatic victory.
For entry-level combat pvp proficiency I estimate about 40 million SP is needed. Anything less just won't hold.
War dec are blob warfare, not a small group pvp. No matter how many frigs you bring, bigger SP blob would blob you.
You need a lot of 2 week chars to make a difference against single proper pvp char.
I don't fear pvp, I just don't see a reason to engage in zero-fun activity which requires a lot of SP investment and gives no return.


Thats simply not true, look at our Brave Noobs, most of them can do jackshit but they compensate this with MOAR members.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#107 - 2014-02-24 15:05:00 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Thats simply not true, look at our Brave Noobs, most of them can do jackshit but they compensate this with MOAR members.

For people who didn't-read-lol...
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Eve has no combat pvp, bigger SP blob always wins, so the only way to do something with noobs is to have a crap ton of them. If you can assemble enough noobs to out-SP enemy blob, it's fine, but in war dec situation matching SP blob of a griefing corp is nigh impossible.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#108 - 2014-02-24 15:20:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Basil Pupkin wrote:

Ah, so now we ran out of arguments and crying to lock the thread, trying to snuggle that e-peen warming last word in?
I know my chances. War dec is zero reward pointless risk if you decide to undock, so undocking during current war dec system is stupid.
You calling me names all days, then say it's me who's calling names on everyone? That is just gold, sir, the height of your ignorance never ceases to impress me. Do you troll here often?


naw man

i request a close because this thread has been derailed from decs to a 'ur ignorant' 'no ur ignorant' level of arguments. its going nowhere.

-i try to explain ur options during a dec. u dnt like ur options and say there are none. Then say im lying despite the fact that u can look at my killboard and cross reference with war decs history to see for urself that u can fight back against wardecs. argument is going no where.
-i try to explain to u that u can avoid war decs if u leave for an NPC corp, u say that its not even an option. u want ur cake and to eat it to. u want reward without work or risk.
-i try to explain what a sandbox is to u. u cannot understand it. u think a sandbox has rules like concord? and war decs? but those are actually some of eve's non-sandbox mechanics.
-i try to explain that ur issue is with griefers, not wardecs. u cannot separate the two. CCP tried to nerf griefing when they made wardecs more expensive and gave the defender unlimited allies. it doesnt stop griefing and it made more deterrents for legitimate war decs. War decs =/= griefing.
-i try to explain what PvP is to u, but ur still oblivious to the fact that even mining is PvP.

i try to explain that allies do join wars and attack aggressors, u again say im lying. but if u want look up:

white-lotus vs. winmatar. 2014.02.03 - 2014.02.18
Isk Enterprises vs. Army Ants 2014.1.29 - 2014.02.06
where's the ketchup vs. Heimatar Treaty Alliance Organisation 2014.01.17 - 2014.01.18 (an example of where the introduction of an ally meant the dec was withdrawn the next day)

these are just the last month of joined decs by failed diplomacy, who often join ur dec for free.

u will not learn. u will not adapt. and it is no surprise to me that u've had such a poor EVE career...

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#109 - 2014-02-24 15:42:24 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:

-i try to explain ur options during a dec. u dnt like ur options and say there are none. Then say im lying despite the fact that u can look at my killboard and cross reference with war decs history to see for urself that u can fight back against wardecs. argument is going no where.
-i try to explain to u that u can avoid war decs if u leave for an NPC corp, u say that its not even an option. u want ur cake and to eat it to. u want reward without work or risk.
-i try to explain what a sandbox is to u. u cannot understand it. u think a sandbox has rules like concord? and war decs? but those are actually some of eve's non-sandbox mechanics.
-i try to explain that ur issue is with griefers, not wardecs. u cannot separate the two. CCP tried to nerf griefing when they made wardecs more expensive and gave the defender unlimited allies. it doesnt stop griefing and it made more deterrents for legitimate war decs. War decs =/= griefing.
-i try to explain what PvP is to u, but ur still oblivious to the fact that even mining is PvP.

1) There are 3 options. Suicide, ship spinning, unsubbing. Attempts to me tell that there are more options would naturally fail, because there isn't any.
2) Yep, leaving for NPC corp is not an option due to diplo reasons. You cannot live in low/null in an NPC corp (stupid cases aside, you need standings, and those are corp/alliance-level affairs). So by joining NPC corp you lock yourself in hisec, which is hardly an option, considering how poor hisec currently is.
3) Defender options aside, I am pointing out of 11th time (which means you will get it soon, keep trying), that attacker options are too damn good. But you keep ignoring your argument, because trying to refute it without epic fail is impossible. With your ignorance you can keep ignoring it forever, of course, no doubts on that.
4) Sandbox has rules, deal with it. Every eve mechanic is a rule. You want pure sandbox? Go create your own universe. Eve requires a PC to play, according to you, that already disqualifies it as sandbox.
5) War dec is griefing. Please point me at least a single example where non-mutual war dec is used without griefing purpose. I tried to find that example and stroke out. Until you show me that one, you have no proof that it isn't griefing. Once you get at least one, we can say that "there is at least one case where war decs were not used for griefing". Going further on this would probably be impossible, as even one example proves to be a challenge.
6) If you think mining is pvp, well, you need help. It's probably elite peeveepeepeepeepeepeeer syndrome where victim sees peeveepee behind every rock...

Daichi Yamato wrote:
i try to explain that allies do join wars and attack aggressors, u again say im lying. but if u want look up:

white-lotus vs. winmatar. 2014.02.03 - 2014.02.18
Isk Enterprises vs. Army Ants 2014.1.29 - 2014.02.06
where's the ketchup vs. Heimatar Treaty Alliance Organisation 2014.01.17 - 2014.01.18 (an example of where the introduction of an ally meant the dec was withdrawn the next day)

these are just the last month of joined decs by failed diplomacy, who often join ur dec for free.

u will not learn. u will not adapt. and it is no surprise to me that u've had such a poor EVE career...

Ok, so you found three examples of elite peeveepeepeepeepeepeers running in fear from a bigger blob. In a month.
Marmite alone gives out 10 war decs per day.
So, getting allies to join (and not even doing anything yet, just scaring the griefers) stops about 1% of Marmite alone monthly total decs.
Measure with 1% efficiency was in line with my estimation of it, thank you for evidence.
Also, "poor EVE career", hahahaha "look this guy has less e-peen than me, praise the great me". You really love e-peening, a real griefer, aren't you?

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#110 - 2014-02-24 15:47:20 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Heh, the current iteration of WarDecs has the following Conflict Objectives:

For the aggressor, shoot at as many ships as you can in a week.
For the defender, don't get ******* shot this week.

Hardly seems interesting or emergent yea?


the objective is whatever the aggressor and defender make for themselves.

the aggressor might be hired to shoot as many ships as they can. or it might want to remove a certain POS, or as many POS's as they can.

The defender can try to fight back if it wants and make the war as costly to the aggressor as possible, or it can try to bore the aggressor. if u choose to dock up, thats ur choice, no one elses. if u feel u have no choice because u chose not to gather friends, because u chose not to invest in combat skills because u chose to never PvP, then that was ur decision. and in a PvP centric sandbox, that decision has such consequences.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#111 - 2014-02-24 16:05:22 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
the objective is whatever the aggressor and defender make for themselves.

Except attacker objective are freebies and defender objectives are to be docked up.

Daichi Yamato wrote:
the aggressor might be hired to shoot as many ships as they can. or it might want to remove a certain POS, or as many POS's as they can.

Just saying, buying the damn POS is almost always cheaper than shooting it. But the elite peeveepeepeepeepeeer syndrome people see peeveepeee in every rock, so...

Daichi Yamato wrote:
The defender can try to fight back if it wants and make the war as FULL OF GRIEFING FUN OF BLOBBING to the aggressor as possible

fixd.
Daichi Yamato wrote:
if u choose to dock up, thats ur choice, no one elses. if u feel u have no choice because u chose not to gather friends, because u chose not to invest in combat skills because u chose to never PvP, then that was ur decision. and in a PvP centric sandbox, that decision has such consequences.

If you choose to undock, you're forcefully docked into medical clone station, regardless of your reasoning. That is 12th repeat of that, you almost got it, just 3 more to go!
You were just trying to tell me that sandbox is sandbox because it centers about freedom, now you claim it centers about peeveepee, which is insignificantly small and most restricted part of it.
Once again, 13th reply on options topic:
a) Attacker has overwhelmingly good options and free to do anything he wants, any time he wants, any way he wants.
b) Defender has options to suicide and get into medical clone station, spin ships, or unsub.
Trying to prove people those are viable options and balanced situation which does not destroy the game just makes you look more stupid and ignorant with every post (which you define new height to in my eyes, I thought it isn't possible to look more stupid and ignorant than you already do).

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Anys Thes'Realin
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2014-02-24 16:08:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Anys Thes'Realin
Skimming through this post (I'll read it a bit closer later) I really like the OP's idea. My friend's corp just went through this not too long ago, and because it was around the holidays, they couldn't get any reinforcements from anybody (even I tried to get them some allies, with no success).

I'd like to add one extra caveat to this: If the Aggressor is part of Factional Warfare - they can't Wardec corporations belonging to their faction. I know player corps can't technically "belong" to any of the big factions unless they fully enlist in FW, but it would be nice if they could, at least align themselves with one of the for empires (especially if they have good enough standings to anchor a Highsec POS in their territory). To give some incentive for this kind of change, perhaps an enemy faction gets a slightly reduced Wardec cost? (Caldari Wardeccing a Gallente corporation?)

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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#113 - 2014-02-24 16:16:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Quote:
2) Yep, leaving for NPC corp is not an option due to diplo reasons. You cannot live in low/null in an NPC corp (stupid cases aside, you need standings, and those are corp/alliance-level affairs). So by joining NPC corp you lock yourself in hisec, which is hardly an option, considering how poor hisec currently is.


are u saying ur worried about wardecs in null sec? standings can be given to players as well u know.

Quote:
3) Defender options aside, I am pointing out of 11th time (which means you will get it soon, keep trying), that attacker options are too damn good. But you keep ignoring your argument, because trying to refute it without epic fail is impossible. With your ignorance you can keep ignoring it forever, of course, no doubts on that.


the aggressor has no options that are afforded to him by being an aggresor in a war dec except for whom they chose as a target. every other option they have is given to them by what they train and the friends they make. the defender has the same such options, they can blob just as much as the aggressors if they made the friends and trained the SP, plus they can leave corp and get allies.

Quote:

4) Sandbox has rules, deal with it. Every eve mechanic is a rule. You want pure sandbox? Go create your own universe. Eve requires a PC to play, according to you, that already disqualifies it as sandbox.


eve has rules yeah. but its not a perfect sandbox. especially when it comes hi-sec. but im not saying it should be, just that u dnt know what is meant by the term 'sandbox'.

Quote:
5) War dec is griefing. Please point me at least a single example where non-mutual war dec is used without griefing purpose. I tried to find that example and stroke out. Until you show me that one, you have no proof that it isn't griefing. Once you get at least one, we can say that "there is at least one case where war decs were not used for griefing". Going further on this would probably be impossible, as even one example proves to be a challenge.


difficult to prove, but look at Swamp Bucket Empires dec history. we had incoming decs from ppl who claimed to be hired (difficult to validate) and our outgoing decs were against competitors that had presence in our systems, or in one case it was vengeance against them deccing us first. coolstory? lol.

Quote:
6) If you think mining is pvp, well, you need help. It's probably elite peeveepeepeepeepeepeeer syndrome where victim sees peeveepee behind every rock...


yes. yes it really is. any competition between players is PvP. so when someone comes into ur belt and starts taking the rocks u want, it becomes PvP. and when u compete with other miners when selling ore or minerals for the best price, that is also PvP. Most of EVE's market is PvP.

yeah i found three examples from one corp in the past month. yeah failed have many more decs, but thats when they are aggressor or defender. those three examples were EVERY finished dec they've joined in the past month. in line of ur estimation of it?

'2) cool story, bro. Never happened, but cool. I kinda wish it could, though, then the whole ally system would prolly make sense.'

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#114 - 2014-02-24 16:20:18 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:

You were just trying to tell me that sandbox is sandbox because it centers about freedom, now you claim it centers about peeveepee, which is insignificantly small and most restricted part of it.


u have the freedom to mine, but others have the freedom to inflict PvP upon u. be ready at all times. its in the EVE FAQ.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#115 - 2014-02-24 16:37:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Anys Thes'Realin wrote:
Skimming through this post (I'll read it a bit closer later) I really like the OP's idea. My friend's corp just went through this not too long ago, and because it was around the holidays, they couldn't get any reinforcements from anybody (even I tried to get them some allies, with no success).

I'd like to add one extra caveat to this: If the Aggressor is part of Factional Warfare - they can't Wardec corporations belonging to their faction. I know player corps can't technically "belong" to any of the big factions unless they fully enlist in FW, but it would be nice if they could, at least align themselves with one of the for empires (especially if they have good enough standings to anchor a Highsec POS in their territory). To give some incentive for this kind of change, perhaps an enemy faction gets a slightly reduced Wardec cost? (Caldari Wardeccing a Gallente corporation?)


why cant we have civil wars? Or Feuds?

what corporations belong to a faction outside of faction warfare? Caldari FW corps are already at war with gallente corps in FW. how do u define a gallente corp with no POS thats outside of FW?? why would u 'align' urself knowing u can now be decced for cheaper?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#116 - 2014-02-24 17:07:52 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:

...
P.S. Grats on war deccing my permadocked Jita character. Alliance was delighted and asked if you're coming to Delve to meet them. Even if I'm a carebear, they definitely aren't. Good luck.

Well I do hope you at least sent an email of apology to Raul deSoya for getting his Oracle zapped, that would be the polite thing to do. Props also to Marmite for joining us on helping you on your education, hope Macolm Lionel was able to replace his Gnosis your mouth got killed?

EvE, every action a consequence, even if you think you are safe as a lame forum warrior who never undocks, your friends aren't.

Although, your alliance just sent us a surrender offer...wonder if we should counter-offer we will drop the decs if they execute you publicly at Jita 4-4? That would be amenable...

Quote:

...
Please explain me, what's awesome about a phony coolstory which sounds like "One day during routine griefing operation we had a gudfait, and now I want every hisec pilot to ask for my permission to play eve due to that."

I can understand how a forum warrior is so inept that he cannot do the basic research on Eve kill or Battleclinic to discover the facts around a compelling story, but to question my integrity...shocking.

Would you like to know more?
Clementina
University of Caille
#117 - 2014-02-24 17:08:14 UTC
Quick Question Basil Pupkin, Why do you think you know anything about PvP when you have not actually participated in it? By your own admission (and your killboard stats) you have never shot at another player for any reason. You have never tried to fight as a defender in a war, you have not tried to fight as an attacker in a war. (You also don't seem to realize that you can look up an organization's war history by going to its war history tab. If you did you wouldn't say that I was lying)

While we're at it, how do you know so much about alliance rules and regulations when you don't seem to ever participate in any alliance cooperative play? I've been around the block a few times and I have not ever seen a corp with such oppressive rules that you describe (Also before you further beclown yourself, you can look up a corporation's tax rate on it's attributes tab).

Also while we are here, why should I even believe that you are even good at carebearing? I hear nothing from you about the POSes that you have defended or financed, or the POCOs that you own, or the Tech 2 researching that you do, or the capital ships that you have built. You complain that nerfs prevent you from high-sec mining (as though high-sec miners ever mattered at all). You also whine that war decs prevent you from hauling when Red Frog seems to haul just fine during times of war.

Why don't you just go play WoW? You seem to suck at this game.
JetStream Drenard
Digital Ghosts
#118 - 2014-02-24 22:19:12 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Although, your alliance just sent us a surrender offer...wonder if we should counter-offer we will drop the decs if they execute you publicly at Jita 4-4? That would be amenable...

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!
Maybe you should make them provide anything they know about his alt characters too, as a condition. Because, he still doesnt get it...
JetStream Drenard
Digital Ghosts
#119 - 2014-02-24 22:47:27 UTC
Clementina wrote:
Quick Question Basil Pupkin, Why do you think you know anything about PvP when you have not actually participated in it? By your own admission (and your killboard stats) you have never shot at another player for any reason. You have never tried to fight as a defender in a war, you have not tried to fight as an attacker in a war. (You also don't seem to realize that you can look up an organization's war history by going to its war history tab. If you did you wouldn't say that I was lying)

While we're at it, how do you know so much about alliance rules and regulations when you don't seem to ever participate in any alliance cooperative play? I've been around the block a few times and I have not ever seen a corp with such oppressive rules that you describe (Also before you further beclown yourself, you can look up a corporation's tax rate on it's attributes tab).

Also while we are here, why should I even believe that you are even good at carebearing? I hear nothing from you about the POSes that you have defended or financed, or the POCOs that you own, or the Tech 2 researching that you do, or the capital ships that you have built. You complain that nerfs prevent you from high-sec mining (as though high-sec miners ever mattered at all). You also whine that war decs prevent you from hauling when Red Frog seems to haul just fine during times of war.

Why don't you just go play WoW? You seem to suck at this game.

If I gauge basil right, he is one of those guys who checks his market orders every 15-20 minutes. His only real motivation is how high his wallet balance can get, maybe he thinks he can catch up to Sumer if he tries hard enough, only 500 trillion isk to go!

If you noticed in one of his earlier posts, market pvp is the only pvp he endorses, probably because it is possible to remain anonymous at jita 4-4 market. He hasnt quite figured out yet, that if he put this much effort into the real life stock market, he might actually move out of his mom's basement.

In fact he seems to want to make this game play more risk free and simple to operate then minecraft, which he probably plays in between checking the market every 15-20 minutes. anything that requires effort such as setting up a pos or doing research, is probably too difficult to deal with since it is more complicated then minecraft.

(since he obviously does no research on his half baked posts, as every single lame brained belief has been disproved many times over and he keeps repeating the same self righteous, self serving dogma over again like that might somehow make it more true. combined with the fact that he makes broad accusations, which are easily and immediately disproved with a cursory search, it shows that he has know ability to click that google button and figure it out. after all, it is so much easier to believe you know everything already...)

Also he cant seem to make up his mind if he played now for a year or several years, so chances are, given his proclivity to exaggerate, its more like 1-2 months and he will unsubb soon. Which means that he bought this character and hasnt yet gained the isk to purchase is "uber elite pvper", which he thinks is a magic bullet for actual experience, tactics and teamwork.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#120 - 2014-02-24 22:51:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
Feyd needs to modify his Corp Description to say, "New Player Friendly!"

Then when other grief-dec corps come after him, they're in for a big surprise.

Also when a newbro comes his way, he can shepherd them away from that which he despises.

THAT is emergent gameplay!

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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