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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Lasers Need Love
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Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2014-02-23 21:06:00 UTC
Stephanie Rosefire wrote:
ive used an apoc in the test server that can fire 327km out...


Which is worthless because if you're further than 150km out in any ship an on-grid probe gets them a warpin at any range they want within 100km in about 5 seconds.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#42 - 2014-02-23 21:09:11 UTC
When that Apocalypse can target that far out you will have an argument.

Rails have more Falloff than they do optimal, significantly more. Rails can have optimals way past 100km. I am not at a computer where I can give specifics, but I know what I fly. I am not certain how the appropriate regular Rail ammo (Irridium I think, and not our longest range) stacks up with damage around 100km to a similar beam and its ammo, but I am pretty sure the rail will outrange your beam in the end.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#43 - 2014-02-23 21:13:55 UTC
Stephanie Rosefire wrote:
ive used an apoc in the test server that can fire 327km out...


How?

I'll just leave this here (although it goes without saying, anything more than 250km is idiotic).
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#44 - 2014-02-23 21:24:36 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Stephanie Rosefire wrote:
ive used an apoc in the test server that can fire 327km out...


Which is worthless because if you're further than 150km out in any ship an on-grid probe gets them a warpin at any range they want within 100km in about 5 seconds.


Probes are just fancy. Get an interceptor and up there and warp to it, or Microjump. There are lots of ways to get right up in a battleships business, and not much it can do about it.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#45 - 2014-02-23 21:24:52 UTC
OP are you suggesting to change all the resists on minmatar t2 ships too?
Stephanie Rosefire wrote:

thats just skills. you are forgetting mods and range bonuses. the Apoc has slightly more range then the rokh

how? What?
Chihiro Chugakusei
Fortune Hunters - Navy Operations
#46 - 2014-02-23 22:01:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Chihiro Chugakusei
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Lasers and Amarr ships in particular are pigeonholed to EM and thermal damage, so this is a proposal to change just the T2 laser crystals (Conflagration, Scorch, Aurora and Gleam) to EM and Kinetic damage. This puts the lasers on more equal footing with respect to missiles, projectiles and drones.


Nice idea. Not sure how to explain it away though. I could go for a 100% EM crystal though, or a 90%thermal 10% em. Make amarr the kings of EM and thermal, or just EM.

Keep it up, +1
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#47 - 2014-02-23 22:45:06 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
OP are you suggesting to change all the resists on minmatar t2 ships too?

Um… what? The proposal was just to swap out thermal for kinetic damage on the T2 faction crystals (only). That's it. In most cases EM damage will still dominate, so the change isn't as drastic as might appear at first glance. But hey, if players are perfectly fine with EM-Thermal - far be it for me to suggest otherwise...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#48 - 2014-02-23 22:59:28 UTC
Ah, finally I understand the point.

You want to keep the EM/THERM on the rest of the ammo, with the option for KIN on T2 Crystals, and thus reduce one of the drawbacks of lasers as a weapon system.

Lasers have issues, this isn't one of them. At least, no one that needs solving.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#49 - 2014-02-23 23:04:44 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Ah, finally I understand the point.

You want to keep the EM/THERM on the rest of the ammo, with the option for KIN on T2 Crystals, and thus reduce one of the drawbacks of lasers as a weapon system.

Exactly.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#50 - 2014-02-23 23:10:35 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
There should be tech 1 Amarr ships with a full missile setup, complete with EM damage bonus. I'd start with the Tormentor, we don't need 3 laser frigates. Heck, why don't we make the Tormentor into the Amarr logi frigate, and switch Inquisitor back to missiles like it used to be?

Next up, either Omen or Maller should be full missiles. I vote Maller, but what do you guys think? I'm thinking Maller because it's more defensive and I think the top offense cruiser should be left to the main weapon type.

Lastly, the Armageddon should have a full rack of bonused launcher hardpoints. I don't think that would be overpowered. It still has to take off a launcher to add a neutralizer, and vice versa.


i approve the use for the Tormentor (its how it should have been since the start)

now, about the omen and maller, NO, the arbitrator already fills that part, what we could do is give it 2 launcher hardpoints more, so it can focus in either EWAR or full laser/missile platform with drones, the armageddon could receive the same treatment but you have to take in account that being drone platforms they dont need aditional weapon hardpoints. that's the problem.

right now the only missile frigate left for Amarr is the magnate, with 2 hardpoints and space for a maximum of 3 light drones, in order to balance the thing and get it in check with the larger drone+missile platforms i proposed the Crucifier to get 2 launcher hardpoints, which should make sense being an EWAR ship of the same type as the dragoon or arbitrator...
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2014-02-23 23:16:37 UTC
Please don't change Amarr cruisers to missiles. Medium lasers are a very good weapon system, pretty much all missiles except for Cruise are terrible.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#52 - 2014-02-24 00:05:21 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Please don't change Amarr cruisers to missiles. Medium lasers are a very good weapon system, pretty much all missiles except for Cruise are terrible.

Depends on application.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Flaming Forum Spammer
Doomheim
#53 - 2014-02-24 00:44:11 UTC
years ago, CCP did a massive ammo change, but then a quick rollback.

This was considered and rightly rejected.

Amarr would benefit more from an across the board cap regen bonus.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#54 - 2014-02-24 00:55:00 UTC
Flaming Forum Spammer wrote:
years ago, CCP did a massive ammo change, but then a quick rollback.

This was considered and rightly rejected.

Amarr would benefit more from an across the board cap regen bonus.



No. Cap is the price you pay for Lasers.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2014-02-24 01:04:01 UTC
Amarr don't need more capacitor for lasers, Minmatar need less cargo space for ammo and cap booster charges. Also, artillery should take multiple units of ammo with each volley so that it burns through it fast despite the slow fire rate. That would put Winmatar ammo problems on par with other race's ammo problems.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#56 - 2014-02-24 01:10:04 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Amarr don't need more capacitor for lasers, Minmatar need less cargo space for ammo and cap booster charges. Also, artillery should take multiple units of ammo with each volley so that it burns through it fast despite the slow fire rate. That would put Winmatar ammo problems on par with other race's ammo problems.

If we've moved on to buffs, Caldari could certainly benefit from expanded cargo space.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2014-02-24 01:18:05 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
There should be tech 1 Amarr ships with a full missile setup, complete with EM damage bonus. I'd start with the Tormentor, we don't need 3 laser frigates. Heck, why don't we make the Tormentor into the Amarr logi frigate, and switch Inquisitor back to missiles like it used to be?

Next up, either Omen or Maller should be full missiles. I vote Maller, but what do you guys think? I'm thinking Maller because it's more defensive and I think the top offense cruiser should be left to the main weapon type.

Lastly, the Armageddon should have a full rack of bonused launcher hardpoints. I don't think that would be overpowered. It still has to take off a launcher to add a neutralizer, and vice versa.

How about we exapnd on what Fozzie and Rise want to do already, and just remove lasers entirely instead of rebalncing them into a good, easily usable spot.

amarr are now the missile/drone/neut and sometimes laser race, and every ship they change to something other than lasers the community loves to death, so obviously lasers are unwanted and have no placce in EVE and deserve the same treatment as Incarna.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#58 - 2014-02-24 01:30:52 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
amarr are now the missile/drone/neut and sometimes laser race, and every ship they change to something other than lasers the community loves to death, so obviously lasers are unwanted and have no placce in EVE and deserve the same treatment as Incarna.

Do I detect a note of cynicism…?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#59 - 2014-02-24 01:31:19 UTC
Lasers are in no way sidelined in the Amarr ship lineup. They do more than adequate damage at excellent range. Everyone facing them but T2 Minmatar ships have to spend a slot filling the EM hole in their shields on half their damage, and no one has really good thermal resists natively. They are not the very best in every conceivable way, but that does not make them crap. Too many people see only the downsides
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#60 - 2014-02-24 01:48:11 UTC
I blame the Hulls more then lasers themselves. The only problem I have with lasers is the low tracking on the small and medium pulse turrets.


Punisher: Not enough cap, not enough mid slots (lasers are about range control, and you can't dictate with 2 mids)
Tormentor: Not enough DPS (2 unbonused drones are the only thing pushing it ahead of the other frigs)
Executioner: Fine for it's role

Maller: Not enough Cap
Omen: Fine for it's role

Apoc: Stupendously good applied dps (not counting alpha)
Baddon: no comment (don't fly)

Zealot: no comment (don't fly)
Legion (laser sub): Very good with right tackle fitted
Legion (covert sub): Completely anemic

Overhaul Dscan!