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I would like for the Phoenix to finally be made viable.

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Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-02-22 21:33:15 UTC
Let the Phoenix mount bomb launchers. Big smile
AnotherUseless Alt
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-02-22 22:24:59 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:
Too many people have fallen into the trap of being fans of battlestar galatica, trained for caldari cap ships only to waste millions of skill points. Please tell me that I am not the only one who wanted to defeat the cylons?


It is viable, Fully insure it, then suicide it at a jump beacon for a Jump freighter...win/win.

"Self help is all in your head"
Atalia Madeveda
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-02-22 22:26:07 UTC
Give it railgun bonuses built around range.
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Doomheim
#24 - 2014-02-22 22:36:46 UTC
I know a lot of people that have trained phoenixes for the lolz. They sit on the undock and when people sit like 100KM off station they shoot a volley at them. I've seen phoenixs that have killed interceptors, hacs, etc just because the enemy was not moving laughing in local because they say a phoenix.

Honor is a fools prize. [I]Glory is of no use to the dead.[/I]

Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager
Esteban Dragonovic
Saidusairos Nebula Concern
#25 - 2014-02-23 07:56:25 UTC
I might note that the problem with the phoenix is not necessarily the ship, but rather the deplorable state of capital missiles. (Which is also why Levis are good most repects except their primary weapon system)
Rumtin
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#26 - 2014-02-23 09:04:48 UTC
Esteban Dragonovic wrote:
I might note that the problem with the phoenix is not necessarily the ship, but rather the deplorable state of capital missiles. (Which is also why Levis are good most repects except their primary weapon system)


I agree, the citadel missiles are the screw up, not necessarily the ship itself.
Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#27 - 2014-02-23 09:17:58 UTC
I have a Phoenix. I get mocked when I show up in it. I'm currently selling it. I mean; trying to.

I went Phoenix cos my first character was Caldari and the alliance I was with was supplying its rank and file with dreads.

I think "The Brick" looks great, I love the capstability and its tank isnt that bad either. But like others pointed out; unless I find a stationary object I'm just out there for my looks.

So yeah; a bit of tweaks to make me feel more than just an escort would be great.
Claud Tiberius
#28 - 2014-02-23 10:43:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Claud Tiberius
Yarda Black wrote:
I have a Phoenix. I get mocked when I show up in it. I'm currently selling it. I mean; trying to.

I went Phoenix cos my first character was Caldari and the alliance I was with was supplying its rank and file with dreads.

I think "The Brick" looks great, I love the capstability and its tank isnt that bad either. But like others pointed out; unless I find a stationary object I'm just out there for my looks.

So yeah; a bit of tweaks to make me feel more than just an escort would be great.

I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking, what was your regular amount of damage inflicted per missile against other capitals? And what were the circumstances (the missile type used, modules you were using, your relevant skill levels, the target, its speed, resistances (if known)). Thanks

Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2014-02-23 11:06:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Grath Telkin
Malcanis wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
i'm sorry but when people say "wasted sp" it's a pretty good indicator that they're either uninformed or whining. usually both.

This might be the exception that proves the rule. The pheonix is pretty awful


I could disprove this fairly quick but I feel like a GD discussion isn't really the place to do it.

The Phoenix has a fairly powerful alpha and a huge brick tank on it. For capital engagements like B-R and or HED where the targets aren't likely to move very much and or structure shoots the Phoenix is actually king.


EDIT: rather than post wildly a simple screen shot to help you out:

http://i.imgur.com/kHyTmon.png

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#30 - 2014-02-23 12:30:49 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
i'm sorry but when people say "wasted sp" it's a pretty good indicator that they're either uninformed or whining. usually both.

This might be the exception that proves the rule. The pheonix is pretty awful


I could disprove this fairly quick but I feel like a GD discussion isn't really the place to do it.

The Phoenix has a fairly powerful alpha and a huge brick tank on it. For capital engagements like B-R and or HED where the targets aren't likely to move very much and or structure shoots the Phoenix is actually king.


EDIT: rather than post wildly a simple screen shot to help you out:

http://i.imgur.com/kHyTmon.png


Wish I could use that in L4 Missions in HighSec. Blink

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Harland White
Adventurer's Guild
#31 - 2014-02-23 12:44:36 UTC
troll troll troll

irrelevant, obnoxious post

unmerited insult

i'm better than you

i know more than you

i think i'm witty and edgy

**** YOU for asking a question or creating a thread on these forums, **** YOU

i'm a miserable, pathetic, powerless kid in real life, i use this game and these forums to pretend like i'm cool somehow

/eveforums

By their fruit you will recognize them.
Qweasdy
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-02-23 13:15:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Qweasdy
Xearal wrote:
Jandice Ymladris wrote:
Look at it the brigth way, it has the highest survival rate of all dreadnoughts. Probably because nobody targets it.... heared rumours that titans can speed-tank a Phoenix Dreadnought, albeit it sounds a bit exaggerated.


Actually, it's not exaggerated, anything that moves faster than about 50m/s can speedtank a phoenix. yes, that means even freighters can SPEEDtank a phoenix in siege.



Not neccesarily anything over 50m/s, the missile damage formula is a bit smarter than that, it takes into account the size of the target it's shooting at too, yes a freighter can speed tank a phoenix:

I implemented the formula in python (cause I'm too lazy to do maths :D) and with max skills a phoenix shooting at an obelisk will apply 71% of it's damage.

Anyone who says, however, that a super can speed tank a phoenix is wrong, the sig radius of a super is just far too big for it to be able to speed tank anything, in fact an avatar would have to be doing well over 300 m/s to even begin to speed tank a phoenix firing citadel torps.

TLDR, phoenix sucks, just not quite as bad as some people think

This is a terrible thread. As such, it's locked. - CCP Falcon
Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#33 - 2014-02-23 13:24:51 UTC
Claud Tiberius wrote:
Yarda Black wrote:
I have a Phoenix. I get mocked when I show up in it. I'm currently selling it. I mean; trying to.

I went Phoenix cos my first character was Caldari and the alliance I was with was supplying its rank and file with dreads.

I think "The Brick" looks great, I love the capstability and its tank isnt that bad either. But like others pointed out; unless I find a stationary object I'm just out there for my looks.

So yeah; a bit of tweaks to make me feel more than just an escort would be great.

I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking, what was your regular amount of damage inflicted per missile against other capitals? And what were the circumstances (the missile type used, modules you were using, your relevant skill levels, the target, its speed, resistances (if known)). Thanks


To be fair; I dont really know. Unless I'm trying to gank somebody I only get a general idea about those kinds of numbers. Big or low number for damage etc. What I experienced was:

- POS, IHUB, TCU etc; siege and get to work
- Moving stuff (as in not sieged dreads or titans) - keep it docked and bring a carrier

So I cant really support my lack of enthusiams for the Phoenix on exact numbers. Sorry about that. Maybge some other Phoenix guy did those maths tho. I'd be interested as well. Next thing you know there is a trick to make em work after all!
Claud Tiberius
#34 - 2014-02-23 13:33:37 UTC
You should do a friendly dual with another capital. Best way to test out ships imo

Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.
Qweasdy
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2014-02-23 13:42:39 UTC
Yarda Black wrote:
Claud Tiberius wrote:
Yarda Black wrote:
I have a Phoenix. I get mocked when I show up in it. I'm currently selling it. I mean; trying to.

I went Phoenix cos my first character was Caldari and the alliance I was with was supplying its rank and file with dreads.

I think "The Brick" looks great, I love the capstability and its tank isnt that bad either. But like others pointed out; unless I find a stationary object I'm just out there for my looks.

So yeah; a bit of tweaks to make me feel more than just an escort would be great.

I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking, what was your regular amount of damage inflicted per missile against other capitals? And what were the circumstances (the missile type used, modules you were using, your relevant skill levels, the target, its speed, resistances (if known)). Thanks


To be fair; I dont really know. Unless I'm trying to gank somebody I only get a general idea about those kinds of numbers. Big or low number for damage etc. What I experienced was:

- POS, IHUB, TCU etc; siege and get to work
- Moving stuff (as in not sieged dreads or titans) - keep it docked and bring a carrier

So I cant really support my lack of enthusiams for the Phoenix on exact numbers. Sorry about that. Maybge some other Phoenix guy did those maths tho. I'd be interested as well. Next thing you know there is a trick to make em work after all!


While I've not actually flown a phoenix it should do around 15-25k (depending on resists) damage to a slowcat fit carrier with around 25% damage lost to speed tanking.

This is a terrible thread. As such, it's locked. - CCP Falcon
Mixu Paatelainen
Eve Refinery
#36 - 2014-02-23 14:05:00 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
pheonix


/head explodes
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2014-02-23 14:29:30 UTC
Oh goody, I've been waiting for this thread to appear again just so I could pull this out. Final blow is by a Phoenix, which did roughly the same amount of damage as most of the other dreads on the field.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Qweasdy
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-02-23 14:54:16 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Oh goody, I've been waiting for this thread to appear again just so I could pull this out. Final blow is by a Phoenix, which did roughly the same amount of damage as most of the other dreads on the field.


Well there's some hard proof that supers can't actually speed tank a phoenix.

This is a terrible thread. As such, it's locked. - CCP Falcon
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#39 - 2014-02-23 16:22:12 UTC
Job Valador wrote:
Give it bonuses and hardpoints for hybrids. There, fixed.

Except it will get optimal range bonuses instead of damage bonuses like all the other crappy Caldari ships.

Oh god.
ashley Eoner
#40 - 2014-02-24 17:06:28 UTC
Qweasdy wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Oh goody, I've been waiting for this thread to appear again just so I could pull this out. Final blow is by a Phoenix, which did roughly the same amount of damage as most of the other dreads on the field.


Well there's some hard proof that supers can't actually speed tank a phoenix.

Was it moving? Was the pheonix shooting for an hour before the rest? Was teh moons aligned?
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