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HP / DPS

Author
Steel-Stone
Wolf-Run
#1 - 2014-02-23 01:42:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Steel-Stone
I have a question between the 2.

Which one is more important in the game, DPS, or HP? The reason I ask this question is because i set up (2) rifter frigates one frigate gave me:

120.5 DPS
74 Hp
15 Hp

The other frigate gave me:

93.6 DPS
163 Hp
33 Hp

It seems the 93.6 DPS is the better one since it does more HP damage, weird.


EDIT: What is more important the higher hit point damage your guns do, or the higher DPS your guns do?
Orlacc
#2 - 2014-02-23 01:49:46 UTC
It all depends on what you are doing or trying to do.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#3 - 2014-02-23 01:53:37 UTC
Are you being shot?

- Tank helps

Are you shooting and not being shot?

- (Applied) DPS helps
Lilliana Stelles
#4 - 2014-02-23 02:00:51 UTC
The HP on both of those is deplorable.
How did you get your HP that low?

Usually even on a frigate you'll want several thousand effective hitpoints. (Base HP/(1.0-lowest resist)).

Though the amount you can self-repair is also important.
A ship that can self-repair fast enough doesn't need as much HP.
But in your case the ship is very likely to get one-shotted by anything larger than it.

Not a forum alt. 

Steel-Stone
Wolf-Run
#5 - 2014-02-23 02:41:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Steel-Stone
Maybe i misspoke but that is the damage my ship is doing with my guns to my opponent ship.

The HP damage is from my guns. So my first fit my guns do 120 DPS and apply 74 hp to one shield and 15 to another shield.
While the other set up gives me 93 DPS which gives a HP damage to my opponent of 163 hp and 33 Hp of damage
Ralen Zateki
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#6 - 2014-02-23 02:43:25 UTC
Steel-Stone wrote:
Maybe i misspoke but that is the damage my ship is doing with my guns to my opponent ship.

The HP damage is from my guns.



Google EVE University and read up on some of their tutorials... specifically fitting, tanking, dps....

Helps a lot and will answer your question prolly...
James Nikolas Tesla
Tesla Holdings
#7 - 2014-02-23 02:45:35 UTC
You mean like the base hp/shield damage from your guns?

CODE is just a bunch of pirates; smart, organized pirates. It doesn't help to rage at them because that is exactly what they want. Dust yourself off and get back on your feet, you don't even have to talk to them.

Steel-Stone
Wolf-Run
#8 - 2014-02-23 02:47:01 UTC
Maybe its me but i always thought if you did large DPS with your guns then your HP damage from your guns should be also high. But as you can see the smaller DPS gives a higher HP damage
Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
#9 - 2014-02-23 02:48:39 UTC
I think he is referring to direct DPS and then the two types of specific damage his ammo does per volley.
Steel-Stone
Wolf-Run
#10 - 2014-02-23 02:50:13 UTC
Hadrian Blackstone wrote:
I think he is referring to direct DPS and then the two types of specific damage his ammo does per volley.


Yes

I wanted to know is having a higher Hit point damage more important from your guns or having a higher dps from your guns?
Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
#11 - 2014-02-23 03:00:33 UTC
Steel-Stone wrote:
Hadrian Blackstone wrote:
I think he is referring to direct DPS and then the two types of specific damage his ammo does per volley.


Yes

I wanted to know is having a higher Hit point damage more important from your guns or having a higher dps from your guns?


Well like someone else said, it depends.

You may have noticed that when facing rats who do EM your shield melts quick, well that's because a normal shield has a 0% resist to EM, so even though lasers don't do a ton of direct DPS, every shot hits harder on your shields because you aren't protected from it (unless you tank for it specifically).

Doing PvE, it's easy to prepare your resists accordingly because certain rats do only specific types of damage.

PvP is a lot harder to predict especially if you are just going around looking for a fight, because you never know what you will face, which is why most PvP fits are not resist specific, but spread out evenly.

In PvP fights where you don't know what you will expect, it's better just to focus on the DPS itself and not what specific type of damage your ammo inflicts.
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#12 - 2014-02-23 03:12:28 UTC
You can hit high HP all in one shot or high HP over time, it's a trade off.

For difficult enemies you will want more DPS. If you are doing something like easy missions and you want it quick, you may prefer a long range high HP gun to kill enemies in one shot.

I put railguns on my catalyst after training skills to fit the best I can fit, and do level twos in it. After linking the guns a lot of enemies in those missions die in one shot.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-02-23 04:15:09 UTC
You are looking at it the wrong way.

A rifter can fit small arty, or small autocannons.

Most setups fit autocannons.

For autocannons tech 1, for PvP, best ammo type is republic fleet EMP - because most PvP frigates fly with a shield extender, and shields are weak to EM.

For autocannons tech 2, best ammo type is either barrage for range, or republic fleet EMP for damage.

You can go for phased plasma, or fusion, but thermal/explosive is iffy damage type, not as versatile as EMP.

Every other ammo type has inferior damage profile and does less raw damage, so never use those in PvP unless you know 100% in advance the resit holes on your target.

There was a chart discussing autocannon ammunition made a long time ago, let me see if i can find it...
Here it is: http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Raz/ProjectileChart.jpg

Basically, ammo types are like this (stolen from a 2011 forum post):

Projectile ammo in it's current incarnation has mixed damage types, but tends to deal more of one type over others.

As with all other turret ammunition, the closer range ammo deal more damage (this is ammo with a negative range bonus). There are three "categories" for range with projectile ammo: close range, medium range and long range. The medium range ammo also have a tracking bonus on them, making it easier to hit those fast moving targets.

EMP = close range EM damage
Phased Plasma = close range Thermal damage
Fusion = close range Explosive.

Titanium Sabot = medium range Kinetic damage
Depleted Uranium = medium range, mixed damage (equal parts thermal and explosive, part kinetic)

Proton = long range EM
Carbonized Lead = long range Kinetic
Nuclear = long range Explosive

Note that all projectile ammo has 2 or 3 damage types
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#14 - 2014-02-23 07:37:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
I think the OPs confusion on DPS vs. HP damage is a question of Rate of Fire.

HP or Volley is the damage a single shot will do before you account for resists. This may also be referred to as "Alpha".

DPS is the damage your guns will do over time before you account for resists. It takes into account your Rate of Fire (but not any reload time).

Looking at the numbers you gave the first is likely a Rifter fit with Auto-Cannons and the second is likely Artillery. The Auto-Cannons cycle faster so will have higher DPS but will do less damage per cycle than the Artillery. Because the Artillery cycles slower, you will get more punch (HP) per shot but that punch will come slower (less DPS).

The Artillery is great is you intend to navigate at range (see the optimal and falloff of Artillery vs. Auto-Cannon) and try to snipe your target. If you prefer to get in someone's grill and do damage that will outpace any repair or logistics they have in place, Auto-Cannons may be the way to go.

Additionally, you're likely better off posting this in the Ships and Fittings Discussion Forum.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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Dave Stark
#15 - 2014-02-23 08:04:21 UTC
wrecks do 0 dps. remember that.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-02-23 10:02:18 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
wrecks do 0 dps. remember that.


Words to live by.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik

Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#17 - 2014-02-23 10:27:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Steel-Stone wrote:
I have a question between the 2.

Which one is more important in the game, DPS, or HP? The reason I ask this question is because i set up (2) rifter frigates one frigate gave me:

120.5 DPS
74 Hp
15 Hp

The other frigate gave me:

93.6 DPS
163 Hp
33 Hp

It seems the 93.6 DPS is the better one since it does more HP damage, weird.


EDIT: What is more important the higher hit point damage your guns do, or the higher DPS your guns do?


Not sure if someone else mentioned it but those armor and shield HP numbers you see on ammo stats are fake, they're not actually stats in any way and all they signify is "how much damage those damage types would do against average shield or armor resits". There's tons and tons of non-logical crap in EVE, over the years they've slowly been removing the silliness but this one they haven't bothered with yet.



In short, forget about the shield armor damage stats in the ammo info because they're fake.


Also, the difference between alpha damage and dps. Generally you'll want dps unless your strategy is base on oneshotting targets or, in a fleet, get through the target's repping.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#18 - 2014-02-23 13:03:17 UTC
Most of the time higher DPS is better than higher volley

However, in a fleet fight where throwing a MASSIVE amount of damage at something at once is vital using a high volley would be paramount.

If you want range and want to kite then you're kinda stuck with the high volley instead of higher DPS because the long range guns are all designed to be volley based.

Decent DPS is still important for high volley guns though, because high volley guns compensate for their high striking power by having a really slow rate of fire in comparison to other guns. This low rate of fire could mean that your target has already repaired some of their HP back before you fire again. If you wanna crack a sustained tank like that then raw DPS is the key.

The Drake is a Lie

Pew Terror
All of it
#19 - 2014-02-23 13:59:04 UTC
Ralen Zateki wrote:
Steel-Stone wrote:
Maybe i misspoke but that is the damage my ship is doing with my guns to my opponent ship.

The HP damage is from my guns.



Google EVE University and read up on some of their tutorials... specifically fitting, tanking, dps....

Helps a lot and will answer your question prolly...


Only viable answer in this thread.

Damage application is actually quite complex in EvE and for example "paper dps" numbers mean almost nothing when you want to fit an actual combat ship. You will need to read up on the basics, or just fly different setups and learn from experience.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#20 - 2014-02-23 17:37:26 UTC
Steel-Stone wrote:
Hadrian Blackstone wrote:
I think he is referring to direct DPS and then the two types of specific damage his ammo does per volley.


Yes

I wanted to know is having a higher Hit point damage more important from your guns or having a higher dps from your guns?


DPS is damage per second

The HP figure depends where you are looking for it, as it may or may not be with skills applied. You are probably thinking of damage per shot, which combined with your rate of fire equates to your DPS.

In PVE, DPS is always better.
In PVP, DPS is always better unless there is a specific reason you need to do higher damage per shot, but less damage over time.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

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