These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Wormholes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Duke Wendo

Author
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#1 - 2014-02-21 23:43:13 UTC
Duke Wendo wrote:
I would like to see POS/ stations broken down into more components so that small- medium gangs can threaten more in a system.

The ship/ ammo building facilities, research, P.I - all that stuff should not be allowed inside a station or a force field where it is protected from all but the most dedicated attackers.

The 'farms and fields' idea that is thrown around so much makes a lot of sense to me as well as the ability of null sec alliances to project their power so far across the void.

These changes would mean people would have to be active in their home systems if they wanted to defend them and if they didn't then people like us could constantly raid them.

The bigger power blocks could still blue doughnut each other but they would not be able to project pilots all over the place to blob everything into TiDi hell.

Wormhole entities would be in the same position in terms of defending their systems from raiders.

People could still POS/ station up when the enemy fleet was too big to handle but then their industry and stuff would be vunerable to attackers and the attackers might even gain something from attacking.


I didn't want to **** up my ideas thread with discussion, so allow me to respond.

Your idea for having people be active to have to defend is fine in theory, but what about time zone differences? To expect a small corp to be able to defend themselves now is hard enough, but if their tz is totally opposite of yours, it would be virtually impossible to have any defense against anyone with what you are proposing. The only thing that gives the smaller corps any hope is the effort it takes to smash a pos/system. Taking the bulk of that away would not encourage anyone to stay in wh space once all their stuff is gone.

No trolling please

TurboX3
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#2 - 2014-02-22 00:13:10 UTC
Bane we love you, I think you are now the official forum warrior!
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#3 - 2014-02-22 00:20:54 UTC
TurboX3 wrote:
Bane we love you, I think you are now the official forum warrior!


You don't have the authority to grant that title.

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe

Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#4 - 2014-02-22 00:33:00 UTC
TurboX3 wrote:
Bane we love you, I think you are now the official forum warrior!


Only when the weather completely takes a dump on all sports activities at work.

No trolling please

Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#5 - 2014-02-22 01:00:01 UTC
I'd like to take a "non-troll" approach to this thread. Ignore my first post.

Quote:
I would like to see POS/ stations broken down into more components so that small- medium gangs can threaten more in a system.


In my recommendation to Bane, I said "settlements". I agree with your idea, and I think that wormholes would benefit with allowing options that create infrastructure and elevate a wormhole from a barren field/forest to a town/settlement. Creating components that are engagable intice would-be invaders.

Quote:
The ship/ ammo building facilities, research, P.I - all that stuff should not be allowed inside a station or a force field where it is protected from all but the most dedicated attackers.

The 'farms and fields' idea that is thrown around so much makes a lot of sense to me as well as the ability of null sec alliances to project their power so far across the void.


I wrote an article about farms and fields for nullsec ages ago and I think something similar would be good for wormholes, but only at a system level of course.

Quote:
These changes would mean people would have to be active in their home systems if they wanted to defend them and if they didn't then people like us could constantly raid them.


I agree with Bane to a degree that TZ's would create an issue with this idea, however timers have been the historic answer to this issue, but also, to properly implement a conflict driver to wormhole farms and fields, we would need something drive visitors to attack inhabitants, while making it lucrative for inhabitants to build the structures.

Quote:
Wormhole entities would be in the same position in terms of defending their systems from raiders.

People could still POS/ station up when the enemy fleet was too big to handle but then their industry and stuff would be vunerable to attackers and the attackers might even gain something from attacking.


Yes. Make it lucrative to build a settlement, requiring the settlers to protect their home, but also make it lucrative to invade. CONFLICT DRIVERS.

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe

Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-02-22 09:43:51 UTC
Calling someone out like this is a **** move IMO. You should have just responded in your own thread.

FYI, it is not our job to design and balance the game. It is easy to poke holes in someone's idea and it is even easier for me to suggest a counter to your hole poking but is in the end, it doesn't get us anywhere.

And don't be too harsh on Duke, he gets all his ideas from Rek Seven. Blink
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#7 - 2014-02-22 09:46:27 UTC
I fail to see how it's a shiit move. I wasn't doing it to be insulting. I simply didn't want a ton of discussions going on in that thread

No trolling please

Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#8 - 2014-02-22 09:58:11 UTC
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Bane, you seem quite buyist towards low class wormholes and I'm not quite sure where you get the idea that there is no isk to be made in them. I'm not going to argue this point or explain the advantages of having a system with 2 statics as I don't want to derail your thread.

To help brawden your views, I sugesst you take a look at some of the old threads that discuss the need for more conflict drivers.

This is something that I would like adding to the list - more conflict drivers. I want to see a new feature or mechanic added to wormhole space that allows us to roll into someone's wormhole and interact with this new feature in a way the benefits people for fighting. For example, if the residents are unwilling to defend it they lose something while the attackers gain something. I guess it's a similar principle to the ESS.



It's not that I am bias toward low class wormholes. It's that for years I lived in a c2. I advocated for years that lower class wormhole life is just as relevant as 5/6 space. It's simply a matter of the higher class wormhole folks simply thinking life only existed in their small, empty c5/c6 for a long time, even when the "little" c2 corp I was in killed more in wh space than anyone.

Also, conflict drivers are as much a community issue as it is a CCP issue. When my corp brings 25 sub caps into a wormhole, only to have 6 dreads, 4 carriers, and 30 lokis dropped on it, it's not driving conflict. It's padding the killboard. When we are told "we don't/wont have shield ships to fight in your pulsar", that isn't some flawed mechanic CCP has to fix. Does CCP have some work to do to help wormhole space evolve? Absolutely, but so does the wormhole community.

No trolling please

Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-02-22 09:59:17 UTC
I guess I take issue with using his name in the title but if duke is okay with it, I am.

Still, stop the hole poking.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#10 - 2014-02-22 10:01:16 UTC
Quinn Corvez wrote:


Still, stop the hole poking.


Hole poking is how we live! You are anti wh space. P

No trolling please

Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-02-22 10:20:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Quinn Corvez
No offence, but it's irrelevant here just like when you were posting in the C7 discussion. Ideas have holes at the beginning but as they are developed and fleshed out, those ideas can be implemented in a balanced way. As I said, it is not our job to design the game.

On conflict drivers, not fighting in your pulsar is simply a lack of will. People don't really want to fight a group that uses doctrines perfectly designed for the system effect, especially if the aggressor doesn't have the right ships. This is all to do with convenience and willpower, not really conflict driving. Conflict driving is the reason and force pushing people to fight each other.
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#12 - 2014-02-22 10:45:21 UTC
Quinn Corvez wrote:
No offence, but it's irrelevant here just like when you were posting in the C7 discussion. Ideas have holes at the beginning but as they are developed and fleshed out, those ideas can be implemented in a balanced way. As I said, it is not our job to design the game.

I fully agree, how dare a candidate for the CSM show signs of being able to evaluate suggestions for game improvements

you ******* ******
Duke Wendo
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2014-02-22 10:53:27 UTC
Idea discussion on a level playing field, minus the trolls, egos, alliance backgrounds and instant idea 'shoot downs' is fine.

As for the time zone differences-

My first response would be 'tough luck'- you decide to set up your stuff in dangerous space- expect there to be danger.
Either recruit people from around the globe or don't set up what you can't defend.

Other than that you can have the reinforce timer system that means the gangs can roam around and reinforce P.O.C.Os and towers and then wait 2 days for anything to happen. Obviously that can be a major time investment to people -especially WH gangs that have shifting connections. It also gives defenders time to bat phone everyone they know or titan bridge in everyone they have.

The 'farms and fields' ideas would mean more action- I personally would scan EVERYWHERE if it meant I could take out gangs and even if we couldn't find a similar gang to fight, then we had the option to burn at least some of their stuff down and take home a profit without shooting through a million hit points and waiting 24 hours for a timer to end.

For me the aim is more player interaction, more destruction, more fights but also more fights and destruction mean more industry and mining. Everyone is a winner.
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-02-22 10:57:18 UTC
Vote Duke for CSM
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#15 - 2014-02-22 11:08:43 UTC
Strange to write this but I have to agree with Bane on this matter. The idea suggested would only serve as further insentive for the megacorps/alliances of 300+. All well and fine in c6 space but to expect a c4 or below corp to muster around the clock timezone coverage is not healthy for wormholepsace at all.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#16 - 2014-02-22 11:16:28 UTC
Quinn Corvez wrote:
No offence, but it's irrelevant here just like when you were posting in the C7 discussion. Ideas have holes at the beginning but as they are developed and fleshed out, those ideas can be implemented in a balanced way. As I said, it is not our job to design the game.

On conflict drivers, not fighting in your pulsar is simply a lack of will. People don't really want to fight a group that uses doctrines perfectly designed for the system effect, especially if the aggressor doesn't have the right ships. This is all to do with convenience and willpower, not really conflict driving. Conflict driving is the reason and force pushing people to fight each other.


Conflict driving is as much about attitude as it is game mechanics. You can add all the game mechanics in the world to try and bring conflict, but if the other side is afraid of something that is a little harder or their killboard may have a chance of having some red on it, it doesn't matter. Many times over my corp has made it a point to take fights that we will most likely lose or have to disengage from. Thankfully, there are other groups (Disavowed, Hard Knocks, etc..) who feel the same way. Without that sort of thinking, no conflict would ever get driven.Certainly, some of the mechanics could use some improvement but don't pretend that's all that needs work.


No trolling please

Sunrise Starburst
Doomheim
#17 - 2014-02-22 11:20:01 UTC
Duke Wendo wrote:

As for the time zone differences-
My first response would be 'tough luck'- you decide to set up your stuff in dangerous space- expect there to be danger.
Either recruit people from around the globe or don't set up what you can't defend.


Typical comment from a "high class power bloc"

So a corp waits until it can provide 24 hour coverage before moving into wormspace or doesn't come at all?

Great idea for getting more folks into wormspace right there Einstien, maybe you should run for CSM?
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#18 - 2014-02-22 11:25:59 UTC
Duke Wendo wrote:
Idea discussion on a level playing field, minus the trolls, egos, alliance backgrounds and instant idea 'shoot downs' is fine.


Trolls, egos, etc.. are irrelevant if the point stands. If you present an idea that people believe won't add anything or only benefit a few, they should point that out. It just sounds like some of you are taking it personally, on both sides of the discussion.


Duke Wendo wrote:

As for the time zone differences-

My first response would be 'tough luck'- you decide to set up your stuff in dangerous space- expect there to be danger.
Either recruit people from around the globe or don't set up what you can't defend.


I see what you are saying here, but at the same time giving a ton of advantages to the attacking forces while essentially limiting the defenders to just having more people on isn't balanced at all. That just means the biggest groups always destroy stuff and the smaller groups sit there and take it. It needs a measure of counter balance imo. You shouldn't get some reward just because you show up and no one is online or they are too small to defend against your fleet.



No trolling please

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#19 - 2014-02-22 11:36:34 UTC
Bane Nucleus wrote:
Quinn Corvez wrote:
No offence, but it's irrelevant here just like when you were posting in the C7 discussion. Ideas have holes at the beginning but as they are developed and fleshed out, those ideas can be implemented in a balanced way. As I said, it is not our job to design the game.

On conflict drivers, not fighting in your pulsar is simply a lack of will. People don't really want to fight a group that uses doctrines perfectly designed for the system effect, especially if the aggressor doesn't have the right ships. This is all to do with convenience and willpower, not really conflict driving. Conflict driving is the reason and force pushing people to fight each other.


Conflict driving is as much about attitude as it is game mechanics. You can add all the game mechanics in the world to try and bring conflict, but if the other side is afraid of something that is a little harder or their killboard may have a chance of having some red on it, it doesn't matter. Many times over my corp has made it a point to take fights that we will most likely lose or have to disengage from. Thankfully, there are other groups (Disavowed, Hard Knocks, etc..) who feel the same way. Without that sort of thinking, no conflict would ever get driven.Certainly, some of the mechanics could use some improvement but don't pretend that's all that needs work.


Big issue is that - once pilots settled into a HUGE corp/alliance, they forget how to do things on their own (regarding pvp). For most hostile scanners I see, it's mostly the same one/two scanners each time.

To the Pulsar-effect: Good choice. No wolf-rayet entity opening up to you even has an incentive to fight on the hole, but I doubt that's news to you. Such a connection is just worthless, can roll it right away. Inside the Pulsar, armorships are just going to get blapped by dreads, and the pulsarguys won't follow into the WR for obvious reasons. Been there, fought with an armorgang inside neighbours c5 pulsar, they dropped carriers, we went home, they didn't follow cause *WR, wtf fight on this side cowards*.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#20 - 2014-02-22 11:46:50 UTC
Where we live doesn't mean we only fly shield ships. We have doctrines for all types of ships, including armor. Most of our fights are taken inside someone elses wormhole, so I fail to see how such a connection is worthless. Maybe people need to learn how to adapt to different environments and fly something other than armor T3s.

My response isn't aimed at you or your guys personally Lloyd. It's a general statement so don't take it as me poking at you guys. Hell, I don't think I have ever run into you Sad

No trolling please

12Next page