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Rookie ships! easily introducing newbies to fit theories. an idea!
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Thirtythousand
#1 - 2014-02-11 15:41:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Thirtythousand
i like the ideology of: Show, don't tell. eve has enough telling you what to do as it is. but i have an idea!

since the tutorial is already a mega text wall, and no matter how many times i told my friends they need to actually do it, they all skipped it thinking they knew best. after the lawls at their fail fits they finally went back and did them, still coming to me for fitting support as the theory of fitting is hard to tell, but easier to show.


    i am using a basic format of
    #) primary idea
  • #a. subsection

    • notes: Notes go here. so the basics dont get cluttered

    wall text mode GO!

    propositions!
    1) provide fitted rookie ships with a basic set of role centered modules! (will include proposed fits below)
  • 1a. remove all limiting requirements from the civilian modules that fit ships roles (civilian damage control, civilian afterburner, all offensive civilian turrets)
  • 1b. adding a mid slot to all rookie ships for their intended EWAR.
  • 1c. tweaking the CPU/pg to just fit all the t1 modules with the most basic skills, without fitting skills.
  • 1d. block rookie ships from using tech 2 modules. so that they cannot be better then frigates.
  • 1e. giving the velator and imparior 10m3 drone bay and 10mb drone bandwith for drone control but leaving bonuses as is.

    • notes on 1: introducing new players to roles and role bonuses as well as further reinforcing the ISIS. Showing newer players what modules that race`s ship tree offer in the long run as well as providing a clear theory to learn and build off of. the civilian mining turret can stay, but the 1 trit can go. it's had a good run.
    reasoning? to help show new players whats available, as well as giving them a platform to build on, and like a civilian car, comes with the basics that you can then swap out and upgrade with aftermarket parts. only there are more guns.....

    2) 6 newish civilian items will need to exist, but should not have significant impact on the game.
  • 2a. the civilian personal protection drone or the CPPD for short (SEE WHAT I DID THERE) basically a nerfed hobgoblin
  • 2b. Civilian overdrive injector.
  • 2c - f. civilian target painter, civilian multispectral jammer, civilian tracking disruptor, civilian sensor dampener.

    • notes on 2: civilian drones are supplied to the rookie ships so that they get introduced to drones from the beginning. should have no skill requirement to use like the other civilian modules but with a max dron control range of about 5km. the velator and imparior will start with 2. the ibis and reaper get 1. dps could be 1/2 the civilian turrets without bonuses.
    civilian overdrive injector comes on ibis and reaper to introduce range control, as the imparior and velator gets the web for range control (proposed fittings below). the civilian line of E-WAR modules is primarily to introduce new players to the concept and show them what they do. all about 1/2 as strong and require 1/2 cpu/pg of their t1 counterparts. sensor damp and tracking disruptor will not make use of scripts. after bonuses they are still less effective then t1 modules as intended
    each module can come with a brief description of how the module works and maybe even a description of what the numbers mean.
    e.g.1. the civilian target painter makes turrets and missiles hit targets harder and effectively doing better damage by increasing the designated target's signature radius, allowing targeting systems to acquire and track the marked target better.
    e.g.2. the civilian tracking disruptor affects the opponents wartime systems effectively causing the turrets to have a harder time tracking your position as well as lowers the turrets effective ranges. other variants of tracking disruptors can use specialized script to increase effects.
    could add some more text to existing modules, e.g. on the civilian web add "rumors in flight school suggest that using a web with a warp scrambler can keep a target from warping away and slow enough to control the range in engagements."

    3) Rookie ships are reimbursed based on the type of station the ship is awarded in.
  • 3a. pirate factions will give out the rookie ships based on the hulls the station is modeled on.
  • 3b. factions that are on their own (concord, SOE for example) would remain as is, giving the rookie ship based on character race.


notes for 3: instead of race deciding the rookie ship you get, the station's race type would grant that races rookie ship. why? this one is mostly for immersion, like you wouldn't expect amarr to reimburse reapers because the minmatar are kind of enemies, but it would also allow a new players to try out different weapon systems, EWAR and other stuff in an environment that is cruel enough as it is.

i don't think this would impact the game in any serious manner, although im sure large fleet of rookie ships would be a blast (GET IT?) :P but they can already be fitted with t1 modules and gank for fun.

why? based on my experiences in game, the tutorial is skipped for the most part as most new players (i did it myself when i started too) un-dock instantly and want to see pretty spaceships shooting and explosions. at least this way, there is a bit more of a "heres a toy! go play! come back and do the tutorial later when you want to get into something bigger". thus helping retain more new players.
you never know~

edite: adding this to original post!

Pend Insurance Inc. wrote:

Pend Insurance Inc.
From: Secure Commerce Commission
Sent: 2014.02.11 10:51

We from the friendly insurance company Pend Insurance regret your temporary lack of spacecraft. According to the agreement between Pend Insurance and SCC, we hereby grant you a brand new Velator, fully fitted. Also included is a gratuity gift of Tritanium.

clearly Pend insurance inc. and I dont agree on what a fully fitted ship looks like.

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Thirtythousand
#2 - 2014-02-11 15:41:45 UTC
fittings are designed around t1 fits. without skills. PG and CPU changes may unbalance some things, thats why you test and tweak! this is still a proposition so hear me out :P also, with the fittings so tight it should limit some of the issues. altho i do see one area of problem, primarily the ibis needing as much cpu as a t1 frig.

PG/CPU is the only thing really needing changing except the slot layout of 2/3/2 for proposed civilian ewar mods and the included pre-fit civilian ships given to you by the great pend insurance company!

so basically

ship:
pg/cpu required for both civilian and at least t1 fit using same mods (with 2x weapons and no miner)
drone bay/bandwidth

lows
mids
highs

drones

_________________

ship:
Velator
132cpu/26pg
10m3 drone bay/10mb bandwidth

lows
Civilian Damage control
Civilian Armor repairer

mids
Civilian Afterburner
Civilian Stasis webifier
Civilian Sensor dampner

highs
Civilian Miner
Civilian light electron blaster

drones
2x Civilian personal protection drones.
_________________

ship:
reaper
98cpu/16pg
5m3 drone bay/5mb bandwidth

lows
Civilian Damage control
Civilian Overdrive injector

mids
Civilian Afterburner
Civilian Shield booster
Civilian Target painter

highs
Civilian Miner
Civilian Gatling auto cannon

drones
1x Civilian personal protection drones.
_________________

ship:
Ibis
155cpu/22pg
5m3 drone bay/5mb bandwidth

lows
Civilian Damage control
Civilian overdrive Injector

mids
Civilian Afterburner
Civilian Shield booster
Civilian ECM Multifrequency Jammer

highs
Civilian Miner
Civilian Light Missile launcher

drones
1x Civilian personal protection drones.
_________________

ship:
Imparior
134cpu/30pg
10m3 drone bay/10mb bandwidth

lows
Civilian Damage control
Civilian armor repairer

mids
Civilian Afterburner
Civilian Stasis webifier
Civilian Tracking disruptor

highs
Civilian Miner
Civilian Gatling pulse laser

drones
2x Civilian personal protection drones.
_________________

let me know what ya think. please keep this on topic.

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Linkxsc162534
Silent Scourge
#3 - 2014-02-11 17:56:44 UTC
I see no problem, actually it would be pretty lulzy to me to see a gang of 50 ibis running around with their gimped multispecs.
Endovior
PFU Consortium
#4 - 2014-02-11 18:06:26 UTC
I approve of this idea. A properly-fit ship should still be vastly superior to any noobship... but the extra free civilian modules provided will make it more practical for new players to do things with them, and be more illustrative of the uses of slots than the current version.

Also, inherent potential of lulz for veteran players doing serious PvP in free fitted noobships.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#5 - 2014-02-11 22:46:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Ines Tegator
I approve. Most newbs have no idea what the core modules they need to fit are, much less how to make a proper fit. (hang out in the Help channel for 5 mins if you need proof). The most basic core module types should be given on rookie ships:

-Weapon (done)
-Miner (done)
-Drone
-Prop Mod
-Warp Disrupter
-Active Tanking mod
-DCU or Hardener

All as Civilian version ofc.

That should give Newbs an example of the core modules for most fits, and help them know what to look for when they start making their own. The disrupter is included for lulz, to allow podded pilots to immediately undock and mess around in a ship that has nonzero usefulness. Pirate

Overhaul Dscan!
Thirtythousand
#6 - 2014-02-11 23:11:08 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:

All as Civilian version ofc.

That should give Newbs an example of the core modules for most fits, and help them know what to look for when they start making their own. The disrupter is included for lulz, to allow podded pilots to immediately undock and mess around in a ship that has nonzero usefulness. Pirate


i actually chose to not include warp scramblers or disruptors as a proposed civilian module almost entirely for the fact that a civilian module of it would either do nothing at all or be as powerful as the t1 version with just less range, which would then make rookie ships perfect throw away tackle with no risk/cost causing a meta shift.

altho you can already drop those mods on there so theres nothing stopping someone from just buying them off market ;)

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Mascha Tzash
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2014-02-11 23:28:43 UTC
Thirtythousand wrote:
Ines Tegator wrote:

All as Civilian version ofc.

That should give Newbs an example of the core modules for most fits, and help them know what to look for when they start making their own. The disrupter is included for lulz, to allow podded pilots to immediately undock and mess around in a ship that has nonzero usefulness. Pirate


i actually chose to not include warp scramblers or disruptors as a proposed civilian module almost entirely for the fact that a civilian module of it would either do nothing at all or be as powerful as the t1 version with just less range, which would then make rookie ships perfect throw away tackle with no risk/cost causing a meta shift.

altho you can already drop those mods on there so theres nothing stopping someone from just buying them off market ;)


How about allowing the civilian module to only tackle rookie ships?
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#8 - 2014-02-11 23:38:29 UTC
Thirtythousand wrote:
Ines Tegator wrote:

All as Civilian version ofc.

That should give Newbs an example of the core modules for most fits, and help them know what to look for when they start making their own. The disrupter is included for lulz, to allow podded pilots to immediately undock and mess around in a ship that has nonzero usefulness. Pirate


i actually chose to not include warp scramblers or disruptors as a proposed civilian module almost entirely for the fact that a civilian module of it would either do nothing at all or be as powerful as the t1 version with just less range, which would then make rookie ships perfect throw away tackle with no risk/cost causing a meta shift.

altho you can already drop those mods on there so theres nothing stopping someone from just buying them off market ;)


I figure a 10km disrupter would be pretty harmless. That's basically scram/web range and puts the rookie at a sever disadvantage. Rookie ships are already slow, low EHP and easy to kill. This just allow them to engage at all, not so much engage effectively.

It's minor compared to the newb teaching aspects of the fit though and I'd be compeltely negotiable on it.

Overhaul Dscan!
Thirtythousand
#9 - 2014-02-11 23:54:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Thirtythousand
Ines Tegator wrote:


I figure a 10km disrupter would be pretty harmless. That's basically scram/web range and puts the rookie at a sever disadvantage. Rookie ships are already slow, low EHP and easy to kill. This just allow them to engage at all, not so much engage effectively.

It's minor compared to the newb teaching aspects of the fit though and I'd be compeltely negotiable on it.


i tried to stay as close to "for defensive purposes only" on the whole civilian idea (why i called the drones what i did, didnt even notice the acronym joke until my 3rd or 4th edit pass).
as well, new pilots usually spend the first few days doing missions.

Mascha Tzash wrote:

How about allowing the civilian module to only tackle rookie ships?


altho i did consider that idea. i dont think its beneficial to eve in allowing a warp disruptor that can only work on other rookie ships.

still nothing stopping people from just buying them :P as the fittings i proposed does have enough wiggle room to support warp disruption with skills.

keeping the theme of introducing basic concepts. tackle is something that can be learnt later, as many pvp pilots are more then willing to teach i found. and there are still things the tutorial should teach.

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Mascha Tzash
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2014-02-12 10:48:27 UTC
Thirtythousand wrote:

altho i did consider that idea. i dont think its beneficial to eve in allowing a warp disruptor that can only work on other rookie ships.

still nothing stopping people from just buying them :P as the fittings i proposed does have enough wiggle room to support warp disruption with skills.


Might be the regular modules can be bought on the market.
I think it might help people to loose some hesitation towards loosing a ship or two.

Like you get to engange into basic combat against other noobship pilots for free. If you want to get into the big guys game, you have to use some ISKies.

But anyways... Your basic idea is great and the pointing stuff is only a small part of this. Blink
Thirtythousand
#11 - 2014-02-12 13:13:44 UTC
Mascha Tzash wrote:
Thirtythousand wrote:

altho i did consider that idea. i dont think its beneficial to eve in allowing a warp disruptor that can only work on other rookie ships.

still nothing stopping people from just buying them :P as the fittings i proposed does have enough wiggle room to support warp disruption with skills.


Might be the regular modules can be bought on the market.
I think it might help people to loose some hesitation towards loosing a ship or two.

Like you get to engange into basic combat against other noobship pilots for free. If you want to get into the big guys game, you have to use some ISKies.

But anyways... Your basic idea is great and the pointing stuff is only a small part of this. Blink


with no losses being sustained, i wouldnt think many people to warp off from a fight that you'd loose or gain nothing from loosing or winning ;) but this is eve....

as well. i decided to actually read the ingame letter. and it clearly states fully fitted...

Pend Insurance Inc. wrote:

Pend Insurance Inc.
From: Secure Commerce Commission
Sent: 2014.02.11 10:51

We from the friendly insurance company Pend Insurance regret your temporary lack of spacecraft. According to the agreement between Pend Insurance and SCC, we hereby grant you a brand new Velator, fully fitted. Also included is a gratuity gift of Tritanium.


see! lies!

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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#12 - 2014-02-12 15:24:46 UTC
the rookie ships are now seeing new use as throw away gank delay ships

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#13 - 2014-02-12 15:28:23 UTC
Would like to see a mining newbie ship.
Kenrailae
Scrapyard Artificer's
Just Lizard
#14 - 2014-02-12 15:46:24 UTC
I was killded by your wall of text.

So I'll just say the tutorial could use some more visual's and explaining in fit theory and 'EFT warrioring.'

+1

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Lethin
Gold Star Red Swords and White Shield
#15 - 2014-02-13 14:47:30 UTC
yeap.
Pew Terror
All of it
#16 - 2014-02-13 19:50:43 UTC
death2alltutorials
Jasmine Panzer
Ciaba Ventures
#17 - 2014-02-15 16:17:24 UTC
+1 a great idea

But I actually would take it further: give away a free properly fitted t1 frig!

Just one at a time, per account, in all of New Eden, to avoid abuse.

Player that just got his one free ship popped gets to choose what kind of new free ship he wants each time: tackle, combat, logi, explo, mining, etc...

Teaches noobs to properly fit their ships with real modules, not civilian stuff they will never ever use again in their eve carreer.

Entirely eliminates rookie ships and civilan modules from the game - they're useless imho except for 1) somebody occasionally trying to pvp in them for the lulz 2) market scams (overpriced civilian mods sold in noob systems).

Encourages everyone to try pvp with no risk of loss. Or try L2 missions in a t1 frig. Or mining/exploration in lowsec. Endless possibilities!

The newbies have more fun, the vets can pop 'em all they want!

Sure, goes against the 'losses are meaningful' concept but c'mon, a 1-2mil t1 frig is meaningful??? Anyone think it would make the game unbalanced in any way??? I'd say having more new players out and about trying to blow stuff up (or generally try risky stuff) is much more 'meaningful' and good for the game!
Thirtythousand
#18 - 2014-02-19 19:35:52 UTC
altho i do like the idea of teaching things like logi and minning, fleet ops will teach fleet centered hulls, like logi.

you forget how hard making that 1st million was as a new player. unless you beg in a trade hub. or someone generously donates isk.

the reason civilian mods are good is because they have no fitting requirements, requiring no training time. and are useless in comparison to t1 so that new pilots would want to upgrade into t1 fits/frigates. and flooding the market with useless t1 mods will probably end the scams in new player systems (and shame on you scammers for leeching off of new players, you are cancers)

getting into the t1 variant requires skills. some of which require a day or so (prop jamming, ewar, logi, drones)

the tutorial already gives a bunch of t1 ships/mods. and loot through missions supplies more mods.

i like the idea of trying to get new players into pvp*. but that's what fw pvp is for, altho i really think faction frigs should be barred from novice sites. but thats a different post.

the rookie ship/civilian modules is Supposed to be useless to promote upgrading to t1. with t1 fittings it can (currently) survive most l1 missions. with changes should easily survive most l1 missions.

1-2 mill frigs for a new pilot is expensive. and most of the first week is spent training into frigates. the sandbox can supply the rest.

the concept im going for is an instant undock ship for new players on day 1 with some basic fittings that can show a new player what he/she needs to work on for fitting theory. without giving them too much info as to confuse/anger/rage new players.

*no risk and big rewards is a threadnaught waiting to happen. just look at any "high sec players make too much isk" threads.

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