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Tracking range and battelships
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Freiday
HC - Voo-Doo Witch
#1 - 2014-02-18 21:31:28 UTC
I think it's a bad idea to have it impossible for battleships to track and shot any vessel within 10km. It's just unrealistic that a small ship can destroy a battleship and it's annoying on missions. At least it should be possible to fit a short range gun for short range.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#2 - 2014-02-18 21:34:37 UTC
it is for game balance

and, this is why you need to train to have basic drone skill. Because you suppose to use drone to kill frigates.

b/w wtf with this statement "fit a short range for short range" are you suggest current short range weapon is not short enough?
Freiday
HC - Voo-Doo Witch
#3 - 2014-02-18 21:42:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Freiday
unidenify wrote:
it is for game balance

and, this is why you need to train to have basic drone skill. Because you suppose to use drone to kill frigates.

b/w wtf with this statement "fit a short range for short range" are you suggest current short range weapon is not short enough?


I am suggesting you could fit a special gun or missle launcher that could attack frigates close range, but otherwise are more or less useless. Drones don't work well enough, they can be lured away and picked off, besides in a drones even the heavy attack ones at max skill have a lousy shielding. I don't see why there should be a balance issue between cheap frigates with zero skill and a battleship with lots of skill and ISK. It shouldn't be that way.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#4 - 2014-02-18 21:53:52 UTC
Freiday wrote:
unidenify wrote:
it is for game balance

and, this is why you need to train to have basic drone skill. Because you suppose to use drone to kill frigates.

b/w wtf with this statement "fit a short range for short range" are you suggest current short range weapon is not short enough?


I am suggesting you could fit a special gun or missle launcher that could attack frigates close range, but otherwise are more or less useless. Drones don't work well enough, they can be lured away and picked off, besides in a drones even the heavy attack ones at max skill have a lousy shielding. I don't see why there should be a balance issue between cheap frigates with zero skill and a battleship with lots of skill and ISK. It shouldn't be that way.


same logic can be used on capital ship as they require much more skills and isk, but yet CPP balance them so they can't dominate against sub-capital ships easy

(Phoenix, Caldari Dreadnought, can't even kill sub-capital ships without support due to very terrible damage application)
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#5 - 2014-02-18 21:56:07 UTC
Megathron with blasters, webs, tracking computer, Heavy neut and warrior IIs.



What frigate?

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-02-18 21:56:22 UTC
you could fit a smaller gun, but that would sacrifice a larger gun. also the rapid launchers are capable somewhat, dont expect any ceptors to die easy though. unless you want both in which case no thank you. you either specialize or diversify.
Freiday
HC - Voo-Doo Witch
#7 - 2014-02-18 21:58:21 UTC
As titans don't do missions or fly alone I don't think the comparisson is valid.
Freiday
HC - Voo-Doo Witch
#8 - 2014-02-18 21:59:21 UTC
Rowells wrote:
you could fit a smaller gun, but that would sacrifice a larger gun. also the rapid launchers are capable somewhat, dont expect any ceptors to die easy though. unless you want both in which case no thank you. you either specialize or diversify.


I don't think you can fit a smaller gun on a battleship ... it should be possible.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#9 - 2014-02-18 22:01:52 UTC
Freiday wrote:
Rowells wrote:
you could fit a smaller gun, but that would sacrifice a larger gun. also the rapid launchers are capable somewhat, dont expect any ceptors to die easy though. unless you want both in which case no thank you. you either specialize or diversify.


I don't think you can fit a smaller gun on a battleship ... it should be possible.



you can fit, nothing stop you.

one strange npc corp chat where I joke about put Rapid Heavy on Phoenix to make it viable for L5 mission.

thanks god that I am poor and low skill that it never come to life.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2014-02-18 22:02:55 UTC
Freiday wrote:
Rowells wrote:
you could fit a smaller gun, but that would sacrifice a larger gun. also the rapid launchers are capable somewhat, dont expect any ceptors to die easy though. unless you want both in which case no thank you. you either specialize or diversify.


I don't think you can fit a smaller gun on a battleship ... it should be possible.



It IS possible. Just unfit one of your large guns.


or pack some drones like a normal person if bringing support is too hard for you.
Freiday
HC - Voo-Doo Witch
#11 - 2014-02-18 22:06:31 UTC
Real life battleships would not be bothered by small boats , and real life large combat ships also of course have smaller guns. There should be a side-gun especially for dealing with the frigate - battleship imbalance. It's just too nonsensical that a single frigate can defeat a battelship in combat.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#12 - 2014-02-18 22:09:38 UTC
is this an army of alts putting all this crap up?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=322607

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=321843&find=unread

big ships dnt hit small ships because they are too small and fast. this is because of balance.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#13 - 2014-02-18 22:10:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ellendras Silver
Freiday wrote:
I think it's a bad idea to have it impossible for battleships to track and shot any vessel within 10km. It's just unrealistic that a small ship can destroy a battleship and it's annoying on missions. At least it should be possible to fit a short range gun for short range.


so you think that the huge guns on a battle ship should be able to follow (because that is what tracking is) a small fast moving ship and blow it out of the sky from 10Km with sniper precision?

talking about unrealistic!

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#14 - 2014-02-18 22:14:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Freiday wrote:
Real life battleships would not be bothered by small boats , and real life large combat ships also of course have smaller guns. There should be a side-gun especially for dealing with the frigate - battleship imbalance. It's just too nonsensical that a single frigate can defeat a battelship in combat.


but RL battleships were bothered by fighters and bombers. its basically what lead to air craft carriers obsoleting battleships.

no there should not be a side gun. u should learn2eve

if u want to take out frigs in close proximity, use drones or smart bombs

edit- if u want realistic, then we should be able to fit anti ship missiles on interceptors, and nukes on stealth bombers...

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#15 - 2014-02-18 22:19:17 UTC
Freiday wrote:
unidenify wrote:
it is for game balance

and, this is why you need to train to have basic drone skill. Because you suppose to use drone to kill frigates.

b/w wtf with this statement "fit a short range for short range" are you suggest current short range weapon is not short enough?


I am suggesting you could fit a special gun or missle launcher that could attack frigates close range, but otherwise are more or less useless. Drones don't work well enough, they can be lured away and picked off, besides in a drones even the heavy attack ones at max skill have a lousy shielding. I don't see why there should be a balance issue between cheap frigates with zero skill and a battleship with lots of skill and ISK. It shouldn't be that way.


You can. Nothing says you have to fit large weapons on your BS. We even have Rapid Heavy Missile Launchers now. I hear precision heavies are pretty good vs frigates. I know T1 cruise missiles are.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Freiday
HC - Voo-Doo Witch
#16 - 2014-02-19 15:02:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Freiday
Daichi Yamato wrote:
is this an army of alts putting all this crap up?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=322607

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=321843&find=unread

big ships dnt hit small ships because they are too small and fast. this is because of balance.


No, I haven't even read those threads. But if people are voicing the point, maybe it is a common issue.
Freiday
HC - Voo-Doo Witch
#17 - 2014-02-19 15:04:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Freiday
The balance issue comes down to the fairness of being rewarded for skill time spent and not only ISK and game time to earn that isk spent. That a 30 day account should be able to take down a 6 month skill set is not balance, it's making long time comitments to training skills and using game time pointless for players.
Freiday
HC - Voo-Doo Witch
#18 - 2014-02-19 15:08:32 UTC
Ellendras Silver wrote:
Freiday wrote:
I think it's a bad idea to have it impossible for battleships to track and shot any vessel within 10km. It's just unrealistic that a small ship can destroy a battleship and it's annoying on missions. At least it should be possible to fit a short range gun for short range.


so you think that the huge guns on a battle ship should be able to follow (because that is what tracking is) a small fast moving ship and blow it out of the sky from 10Km with sniper precision?

talking about unrealistic!


I think 10km is a pretty long distance even for 800mm guns.
Freiday
HC - Voo-Doo Witch
#19 - 2014-02-19 15:09:43 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Freiday wrote:
unidenify wrote:
it is for game balance

and, this is why you need to train to have basic drone skill. Because you suppose to use drone to kill frigates.

b/w wtf with this statement "fit a short range for short range" are you suggest current short range weapon is not short enough?


I am suggesting you could fit a special gun or missle launcher that could attack frigates close range, but otherwise are more or less useless. Drones don't work well enough, they can be lured away and picked off, besides in a drones even the heavy attack ones at max skill have a lousy shielding. I don't see why there should be a balance issue between cheap frigates with zero skill and a battleship with lots of skill and ISK. It shouldn't be that way.


You can. Nothing says you have to fit large weapons on your BS. We even have Rapid Heavy Missile Launchers now. I hear precision heavies are pretty good vs frigates. I know T1 cruise missiles are.


That's a point, and if the RHML actually work at distances of 1km - 250m then I withdraw my sugestion.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#20 - 2014-02-19 15:16:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Freiday wrote:
The balance issue comes down to the fairness of being rewarded for skill time spent and not only ISK and game time to earn that isk spent. That a 30 day account should be able to take down a 6 month skill set is not balance, it's making long time comitments to training skills and using game time pointless for players.


Doesnt know how eve works

Freiday wrote:

I think 10km is a pretty long distance even for 800mm guns.


Doesnt know how AC's work

Freiday wrote:


That's a point, and if the RHML actually work at distances of 1km - 250m then I withdraw my sugestion.


Doesnt know how missiles work

edit- what im trying to say is, ur knowledge of the game seems pretty limited. u can ask corp members, or just ppl in local on how to best counter frigs rather than asking for a significant part of the game to be changed.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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