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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Non-scannable locations in space

First post
Author
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#261 - 2014-02-06 14:23:33 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Actually I just thought that concept could be expanded to planetary rings.

Those things already are huge, thousands of km wide, not quite as deep but still enough.

You could fly to a planetary ring, with your mining barge fly around at the fringes and well, mine stuff and if you really want to be the brave explorer you could always "dive" into the ring, were the light of the local star can't quite reach you because of all the dust and debris and asteroids drifting around, were you can't warp out because of all the interference.

That way getting into and out of the area would still be quite the piece of work but at the same you can discern a general direction for the fastest way out as the ring would not be as deep as it is wide.

And (I really like that part) it wouldn't just vanish after a few days, you could actually stay in there, there could be small structures that a player would attach to an asteroid (of sufficient size), to further mask it's signature and create a little base of operations and if you want to bring your corp mates those could attach/anchor their own structures to asteroids nearby (yes I know, space city cliché)...

For some reason that picture won't leave my head, you're there with your little manticore or even Astero exploring the ring, the light is all diffuse and yellowish because of all the dirt and dust in the area, you navigate around a particular large asteroid when suddenly you stumble about something that almost resembles a little capsuleer city, haulers slowboating around between all those little micro bases, micro production facilities are active, producing ammo, ships and whatnot else for the local market and you look around a little bit and notice their capsuleer made jumpgate as it flashes and a few cruisers and maybe even battleships arrive on grid, returning from some roam or some anomaly to repair and restock on ammo.

The base had been well hidden, away from the main entry routes and the most ore ich areas, surrounded by enough sensor impairing debris and every structure attached to a bigger asteroid to mask its signature, you only found it by accident. Jackpot! Pirate

Now it's only a matter of bringing your buddies, and enough of them, to get what you want from them. But they'll have guards (no not THE guard), it's a concorde free zone after all, no one to interfere, no one between you and them...


EDIT: Grrr, now I can't stop thinking about that and how cool it would be. Thank you very much Dinsdale. X


Baby steps...simplicity first.
But yeah, the possibilities based on the base concept are quite a few.

Frankly, I always thought that asteroid belts should generate a ton of interference.
They mess up our physical movement now.
Messing up our electronics would be a natural extension.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#262 - 2014-02-06 14:27:27 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Baby steps...simplicity first.
But yeah, the possibilities based on the base concept are quite a few.

Frankly, I always thought that asteroid belts should generate a ton of interference.
They mess up our physical movement now.
Messing up our electronics would be a natural extension.


Yeah, actually what I described was more or less what I expected when I jumped to an asteroid belt for the very first time.

I left quite disapointed. Straight

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#263 - 2014-02-06 14:37:56 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I have it on good authority that this concept was presented at the CSM.
Where it goes after this, is anyone's guess.

The general thought conveyed to me was that bits of the idea may be folded into some other idea already on the table.
That is typically how things like this work.

I would not expect this concept to show up as a whole, independent mechanism.


Yes, I have faith in devs too.
After all they answered to "do something for null to make our lives better" with ESS. Roll

Your cloud concept is cool but I don't believe we will ever see anything even close to what you started and others expanded upon. And sad fact is that main problem standing in a way is far away from actual implementation and technical details.

In general I am changing my stance to "yeah well whatever" regarding anything CCP promises to do or teases us about with bits and trolls and stuff that is not on TQ. As long as I can continue to murder newbies using my advantage of skills, wallet and experience I don't really care about how miserable other gameplay areas are.

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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#264 - 2014-02-06 14:40:06 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Any of the more agreed upon ideas presented would be good additions to the exploration aspects of Eve I think, and the better rounded the ideas the more likely to be considered. This has definately been one of the better threads here with people actually trying to be constructive rather than just shoot ideas down!


Yeah, I have kept my "other" theories away from the this read, and so has everyone else.
I think that pretty much everyone can envision benefits or expansions for whatever playstyle they enjoy has a lot to do with it staying positive.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#265 - 2014-02-14 12:12:05 UTC
Bump for greatness, great justice and a lot of other great things!Big smile

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#266 - 2014-02-14 12:29:00 UTC
I saw in another post that gates can be used to determine the size of a fleet jumping through, would be nice if the same mechanic could be applied to rat bases inside the region, have a triger distance from the base and a larger assessment range to base the number/type of rats on...could give a nasty surprise to someone unaware of a fleet 150 Km away but still in range for the base threat assessment...

P.S. please don't ban stupidity, that's the one skill I started with at lvl V...
Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
#267 - 2014-02-15 18:22:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Zepheros Naeonis
buyer Bedala wrote:
My primary concern would be how this interacts with local. The obvious strategy in this zone would be to just warp out or cloak if you see someone in local. This eliminates much of the risk in these zones. When doing exploration, its already common practice to cloak or leave the site if someone shows up in local. The only area these zones could work in is wormholes. And even then, you can be fairly safe by having someone watch the entrances.


I think this is where the 'multiple entrances/exits', if not possibly unlimited would come into play. These DDC's could almost be seen as giant mazes with potential entrances bringint you to a dead end, or a trap. There may be a dozen safe entrances in one DDC and only 2 in another. It needs to be possible to completely randomize these sites while being able to reproduce them in such a way that isn't terribly hard to code (sounds contradicting).

As far as local goes, I think it could work in the same manner that cloaking has been suggested in these areas with the overview flickering to make you aware of a presence, or that the flickering of a player in local over a period of time could be a sign that they are actively in a DDC at the moment. Or simply just remove the player from local as if they exited the system. You wouldn't know unless you visually watched them enter the DDC.

Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
My view is that no ship larger than a cruiser should be able to fly in (gravitational forces putting too much stress on higher mass ships or something). This would mean a site could not be camped with a fleet of supercaps and then farmed. It would keep combat and exploration fast and fluid. It would also mitigate somewhat agàinst local since it could still be worth your time to inve§tigate given that ghose in the DDC will have exactly the same advantages and disadvantages.


I don't think it should necessarily be limited, but restricted based on the strenght of the force within the DDC. Have it vary wildly so ships of all sizes could join in OR potentially make a ships size a contributing factor to finding your way through a DDC. If the gravitational force exerted wasn't harmful to ship of a certain mass(cruiser), but maybe to a BC that weighed sufficiently more and it started to take damage, you would know you were off the path or going the wrong way.

Jori McKie wrote:
A BS with 100,000,000 kg is able to enter but after that the grid shuts down for anybody else.
(Capitals and Supercapitals allowed to enter are not a problem as the travel time to another grid would be hilarious, in case someone is going to abuse it make so that only the outer grids aka "warp in grids" are enterable for Capitals and Supercapitals )
Why is that needed?
Without an unknown random mass limit all bigger alliances/corps be it RvB, CFC, N3 etc etc. can just bring 50, 100, 200 players into this area and farm it without any trouble at all.
The unknown mass limit is working in both directions, if the orginal explorer want to abuse it to shut down the grid in case he found something shiny to farm, he won't know when the mass limit is reached and can't be sure he can enter the grid after the xth time.


I don't think a mass limit would be the solution, but more like a weight scale. The more mass that enters a region of the DDC, the larger the side effects on the ships. Maybe the gravitational force becomes too excessive and causes damage to larger ships until the mass limit is reduced or even have it reduce permanently as a result of poor decision making on the players part. Now the mass limit has excluded carriers and larger from entering due to instability. You could have other effects outside of mass/gravity as well such as increased electronic interference, NPC rats spawn as a spring trap, electromagnetic storms, etc.

As far as the other concerns brought up...

- warping, MJD/MMJD
I agree that warping shouldn't be plausible. I also don't feel pods should have the ability to warp out for any particular reason. You enter this area of space knowing full well what the consequences can be. I think that M/MJD's can be used effectively without presenting an 'OP' factor for bigger ships that would normally be slow-boating it. Maybe the M/MJD has interference caused by the intensity level of certain DDC's? Maybe its calibration gets thrown off and you only warp 30km instead of 100km? Maybe your ships warp core isn't as stable as you thought and you need extra WC stabs in the lows to compensate for effective use of a M/MJD? (would give another reason for stabs to exist). Or the delay to reactivate it increased significantly to limit the pace at which a large ship can traverse a DDC.

These are just some ideas and would help to negate the other complaint of the initial size of these DDC's. The bigger the better, IMO. Don't make these small.

- gate camping entrances
I did address this briefly earlier up in my post with multiple entrances or a lack thereof of actual entrances/exits and rather having safe zones to enter. So that scouts truly need to navigate safe zones for other ships. This way the increased size of said DDC can negate 'campers' from having an effective means to stop players from entering through the only way when they themself do not know how many entrances there are.

(haven't fully read through, will later. Absolutely love this discussion.)
Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
#268 - 2014-02-15 18:58:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Zepheros Naeonis
More thoughts I had while working...

Back onto MMJD/MJD, I think they could have tactical advantages/disadvantages. For example, you may have helped scout out a path to the prize which is guarded by ships beyond your potential. So you deployed some MMJD along the way for your friends. Well along the way your friend comes across 2 MMJD's 15km away from each other. Now they have a dilemma and a potentially risky choice to make. Which do they use? One will probably lead them to you while the other is unknown. It may be a trap. There could be a gravitational effect at the end of one MMJD that absolutely tears your friend's BS apart, after which an Anathema decloaks and loots the wreck. Unaffected by the grav. since the mass of his ship is so much smaller.

Same could be said for ships with MJD's. If there is no course plotted, they could MJD in a random direction if they so choose. It could be a big risk or a potential life saver if they were being pursued.

As far as DDC size and scalability goes I don't think there should be any center point to warp in a DDC from. If two ships jumped to the DDC from completely different sides of the solar system, they should both land on the edge of the DDC based on the intended path of their warp. This would negate any initial "camping" from players, like what can happen with anomalies. Now obviously once a safe entrance was scouted out, it could be bookmarked for friends/allies to jump too. I agree with what Dinsdale said about not being dragged out of warp because of the DDC, but if you are warping TO it, I do think you should land according to your path and not a central point.
Jasmine Panzer
Ciaba Ventures
#269 - 2014-02-15 19:22:50 UTC
+1 awesome idea!

An idea for the goodies to be found inside: abbandoned ships!

Make it so any single ship in the game can be found, including caps, supercaps, titans, hell why not super rare tourney ships, too? Naturally, the more precious, the less likely they'll spawn. CCP could even add a new ship or two that could only be found here.

Why ships? Because 'somebody' got lost in the nebula and never got out alive! And all that remains is the cool ship he/she was flying...

Also: EVE players love spaceships. Spaceships are the ultimate reward. Any other reward is just something to convert to ISK to get... spaceships!

Also, make it so the only way to claim these ships is ejecting from your own ship and boarding it in space! Lucky sub-cap pilot finds an Aeon? Good, now he needs to find someone capable of flying and Aeon and figure out how to get something out of this without getting scammed...

Finally, ejecting from your ship means that someone else that comes along and missed the 'shiny' can get your ship as a consolation prize (if its worth it)!

Just imagine these sites littered with abbandoned ships, both game-spawned and player owned... So cool!

(also, it would be nice if unmanned ships were invulnerable in the nebula, even though i can imagine this could be exploited...)
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#270 - 2014-02-17 08:15:52 UTC
Jasmine Panzer wrote:
+1 awesome idea!

An idea for the goodies to be found inside: abbandoned ships!

Make it so any single ship in the game can be found, including caps, supercaps, titans, hell why not super rare tourney ships, too? Naturally, the more precious, the less likely they'll spawn. CCP could even add a new ship or two that could only be found here.

Why ships? Because 'somebody' got lost in the nebula and never got out alive! And all that remains is the cool ship he/she was flying...

Also: EVE players love spaceships. Spaceships are the ultimate reward. Any other reward is just something to convert to ISK to get... spaceships!

Also, make it so the only way to claim these ships is ejecting from your own ship and boarding it in space! Lucky sub-cap pilot finds an Aeon? Good, now he needs to find someone capable of flying and Aeon and figure out how to get something out of this without getting scammed...

Finally, ejecting from your ship means that someone else that comes along and missed the 'shiny' can get your ship as a consolation prize (if its worth it)!

Just imagine these sites littered with abbandoned ships, both game-spawned and player owned... So cool!

(also, it would be nice if unmanned ships were invulnerable in the nebula, even though i can imagine this could be exploited...)

Could make it so that a ship's self-destruct mechanism malfunctions in the cloud, forcing pilots to eject and sd the pod if they get lost.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#271 - 2014-02-17 08:25:01 UTC
Some variant of THE CLOUD could have visible timer counting down from some time (10 min / 1 hour / 2 days / whatever) to 0. When it hits 0 your ship and pod explodes. It resets every time you leave THE CLOUD and starts again when you come back.

Few guys in ceptors go in one at the time leaving trail of MMJDs or cans as a way points for following ships and if/when one of them finds something rest of fleet (players/alts/whatever) is jumping in and do whatever is needed.

So no hiding there forever, you gotta move, grab what you can be that site, rats, wrecks or players and GTFO.

But I still don't believe it will ever happen...

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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#272 - 2014-02-17 08:56:56 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Some variant of THE CLOUD could have visible timer counting down from some time (10 min / 1 hour / 2 days / whatever) to 0. When it hits 0 your ship and pod explodes. It resets every time you leave THE CLOUD and starts again when you come back.

Few guys in ceptors go in one at the time leaving trail of MMJDs or cans as a way points for following ships and if/when one of them finds something rest of fleet (players/alts/whatever) is jumping in and do whatever is needed.

So no hiding there forever, you gotta move, grab what you can be that site, rats, wrecks or players and GTFO.

But I still don't believe it will ever happen...


We just don't know if CCP will implement even a small portion of the concepts people have been throwing around.
But it won't happen soon, that is for sure.

That being said, I would think if CCP WAS gung-ho about the idea, they could fairly quickly set up randomized clouds where nothing is in them, and the only effect is no D-Scan, pretty much identical to the modular unit except for the size and randomized locations, and dump that on Sisi. That would be signal that they were messing with the idea.
SKINE DMZ
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#273 - 2014-02-17 20:34:56 UTC
So how come there is no response on this awesome idea yet? The least CCP could do is give a response (really, this thread deserves a response more than most threads CCP give a response to), even if they think the idea does not fit with their long term plan.

I disagree

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#274 - 2014-02-17 21:16:30 UTC
SKINE DMZ wrote:
So how come there is no response on this awesome idea yet? The least CCP could do is give a response (really, this thread deserves a response more than most threads CCP give a response to), even if they think the idea does not fit with their long term plan.


I talked with someone in the CSM.
I don't think I am breaking any personal trust to tell you that the concept was presented to CCP at the last CSM summit.
What CCP does with it though, that is anyone's guess.
But given all the other stuff on their plate at this time, I just don't think we can expect a response from CCP.

I don't know if there are many concepts that are directly presented to CCP via the CSM, and I am grateful that was even done.
So I guess I am pretty sanguine about any progress on it right now, or acknowledgment from CCP.
They know about it.

If you want to get REALLY FUNKY about this, take it one step further:
Tie it into Valkyrie.

Now, you are inside the ship, actually seeing everything through headset you are wearing,
You have a HUD that shows whatever this area is limited to.

Imagine this:

You are in an asteroid belt, hundreds of km long, where scanning does not work, maybe warp does not work, cloaking may or may not work, or is intermittent at best, and you physically cannot see from one end of the belt to the other because of the physical cloud.
Now imagine you are in a frigate, trying to hunt down some miners, OR you are in a frigate, running picket duty for said miners.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#275 - 2014-02-18 14:03:05 UTC
Finally had time to read the whole thread and what can I say? I wholeheartedly agree that this needs to be implemented post haste.

Eve currently is quite predictable, PvE content much more so. This feature would make space what it should be, vast and unknown. Unknown is what makes people think and put the available tools to new ingenious uses. Some of the stuff that people have come up with here is just pure awesome.

Can't wait to plunge in to one of these Dinsdale Clouds.

+1

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#276 - 2014-02-18 14:12:40 UTC
I will believe when I see it on TQ.

I really hope for such "chaotic" system that can't be analyzed and documented on eve-survival but chances are if we ever will get anything it will be another type of cans exploding when timer reaches zero with new color of cloud effect that will kill half of players with boredom and another half with their GPUs melting down.

Prove me wrong CCP :)

Invalid signature format

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#277 - 2014-02-18 17:28:49 UTC
im not sure from a physics point of view why these would disappear and reappear somewhere else randomly ...

static nebula clouds would make more sense.. people could even live in there ... maybe massive permanent gas clouds would be the main pve.. perhaps some sleepers hibernating in there could be disturbed .. only ships moving appear on overview..
perhaps nebula samples could have some value if given to NPC stations ..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#278 - 2014-02-18 20:05:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
About "turret locking" from not being able to lock on:


I would hope that one thing we should be able to do with a ship, whether unable to lock on in a "Dinsdale Cloud Effect Phenomenon" (heh) or just plain jammed by ECM, is to be able to fire our weapons with locked turrets and bays.

We can already see a demonstration in the Stealth Bomber, the bomb launcher, of a weapons system that does not require a lock and shoots straight forward. If all turrets and bays could do this, that at least would be a working "last resort" for the situation prescribed in this thread and being jammed. If the effect is to simply be "unable to lock and then just sit there like you were reloading rapid missile launchers and watching your ship die to smart bombs and scream" then these clouds will be avoided like the plague.

(or the only ship you will see in them will be stealth bombers)

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#279 - 2014-02-18 20:11:52 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
About "turret locking" from not being able to lock on:


I would hope that one thing we should be able to do with a ship, whether unable to lock on in a "Dinsdale Cloud Effect Phenomenon" (heh) or just plain jammed by ECM, is to be able to fire our weapons with locked turrets and bays.

We can already see a demonstration in the Stealth Bomber, the bomb launcher, of a weapons system that does not require a lock and shoots straight forward. If all turrets and bays could do this, that at least would be a working "last resort" for the situation prescribed in this thread and being jammed. If the effect is to simply be "unable to lock and then just sit there like you were reloading rapid missile launchers and watching your ship die to smart bombs and scream" then these clouds will be avoided like the plague.

(or the only ship you will see in them will be stealth bombers)

Don't forget the Auto-Targeting varieties of missiles, to go along with the fixed fire turret scheme...

It would certainly create an unusual dynamic, with ships aiming themselves at each other directly in order to crudely target...
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Thermodynamics
#280 - 2014-02-18 20:34:53 UTC
I love it. +1

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone