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Dearest Providence;

Author
Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-02-13 11:43:50 UTC
Sometimes I wonder if Freddy even listens to the words that come out of his mouth. This is why I don't use boosters anymore.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-02-13 12:05:13 UTC
I have approached CVA privately and I am assured that so long as I am in Goonwaffe that I will not be invited peacefully to Providence.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#23 - 2014-02-13 12:06:37 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
I have approached CVA privately and I am assured that so long as I am in Goonwaffe that I will not be invited peacefully to Providence.

What about Amokdotte?

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.

Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#24 - 2014-02-13 14:49:23 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:

The situation is very different. My corporation was betrayed by Goonswarm you see. Thats how filthy these people are.


Well, I believe you best said it yourself:

Fredfredbug4 wrote:
A CFC alliance or corp is a permanent cancer on your enployment history...


By your own words, due to your CFC involvement, you are permanently tainted. Asking for swift destruction of everything barely related to CFC and acting as a penitent regarding the same don't really work hand-in-hand, mr. Fred.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#25 - 2014-02-13 14:54:13 UTC
Leopold Caine wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:

The situation is very different. My corporation was betrayed by Goonswarm you see. Thats how filthy these people are.


Well, I believe you best said it yourself:

Fredfredbug4 wrote:
A CFC alliance or corp is a permanent cancer on your enployment history...


By your own words, due to your CFC involvement, you are permanently tainted. Asking for swift destruction of everything barely related to CFC and acting as a penitent regarding the same don't really work hand-in-hand, mr. Fred.

"Kill everyone that ever allied with goon, except us we are cool...."

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-02-13 16:52:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Leopold Caine wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:

The situation is very different. My corporation was betrayed by Goonswarm you see. Thats how filthy these people are.


Well, I believe you best said it yourself:

Fredfredbug4 wrote:
A CFC alliance or corp is a permanent cancer on your enployment history...


By your own words, due to your CFC involvement, you are permanently tainted. Asking for swift destruction of everything barely related to CFC and acting as a penitent regarding the same don't really work hand-in-hand, mr. Fred.


I never said it wasn't a cancer for us. The reason why we had trouble finding another alliance to join after we were screwed over was because we had Goonswarm taint on us. Nobody would take us because of that horrid tumor. I think we can speak for ourselves how nobody wants a former goon, we experienced it first hand.

A wise man took pity on us and we were able to prove ourselves again. This was our chemo. This cured us. We seak to administer this cure to the rest of null, by force if necessary.

Anyone other self proclaimed experts on a corp they know nothing about?

Alizabeth Vea wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if Freddy even listens to the words that come out of his mouth. This is why I don't use boosters anymore.


Now, now. Go run back to your corner of insignificance please. You can pretend you are important there.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#27 - 2014-02-13 17:02:31 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Leopold Caine wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:

The situation is very different. My corporation was betrayed by Goonswarm you see. Thats how filthy these people are.


Well, I believe you best said it yourself:

Fredfredbug4 wrote:
A CFC alliance or corp is a permanent cancer on your enployment history...


By your own words, due to your CFC involvement, you are permanently tainted. Asking for swift destruction of everything barely related to CFC and acting as a penitent regarding the same don't really work hand-in-hand, mr. Fred.


I never said it wasn't a cancer for us. The reason why we had trouble finding another alliance to join after we were screwed over was because we had Goonswarm taint on us. Nobody would take us because of that horrid tumor. I think we can speak for ourselves how nobody wants a former goon, we experienced it first hand.

A wise man took pity on us and we were able to prove ourselves again. This was our chemo. This cured us. We seak to administer this cure to the rest of null, by force if necessary.

Anyone other self proclaimed experts on a co

Alizabeth Vea wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if Freddy even listens to the words that come out of his mouth. This is why I don't use boosters anymore.


Now, now. Go run back to your corner of insignificance please. You can pretend you are important there.

Um, Fred, I don't want to be an alarmist, but you're starting to sound like Daina Kim.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-02-13 17:12:59 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:

Um, Fred, I don't want to be an alarmist, but you're starting to sound like Daina Kim.


I suppose I do. However unlike her, I have a personal vendetta against Goons rather than a prejudiced hatred.

And even still, my demeanor isn't as hostile as the text would imply. The hyperbolic nature is really just to get under their skin. Im not pounding furiously into my neocom with bushed eyebrows, a red face, and seething teeth and then going outside to kick puppies when I'm finished. Merely writing what would agitate a Goon.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#29 - 2014-02-14 00:14:31 UTC
Gosakumori Noh wrote:
Successful insurgency evolves naturally into status quo. The bees behave in accordance with political history, and the circle must complete (or, in this case, the toroid).


This is sad but true. Throughout history, in every society, there have been the high, middle and low. The goal of the high are to remain where they are. The goal of the middle is replace the high. The goal of the low, when they bother to have one, has been abolish all classes. But every now and then the middle manages to trick the low into being the muscle in a revolution against the high by promising them whatever they want to hear. Once it is all over, the middle become the new high, the high get knocked down to the middle, and the low quickly get shoved right back into the same unpleasant position as before.

So Goonswarm did not truly defeat Band of Brothers - they merely took their place. And if anyone ever defeated Goonswarm, then that group would quickly become the new villains of New Eden. The Goonswarm are merely the actors of the moment in a role that is eternal.
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#30 - 2014-02-14 00:51:45 UTC
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:
Gosakumori Noh wrote:
Successful insurgency evolves naturally into status quo. The bees behave in accordance with political history, and the circle must complete (or, in this case, the toroid).


So Goonswarm did not truly defeat Band of Brothers - they merely took their place. And if anyone ever defeated Goonswarm, then that group would quickly become the new villains of New Eden. The Goonswarm are merely the actors of the moment in a role that is eternal.


Thank you for the link, Lady Devonshire. I shall celebrate it with a swish of brandy and perhaps a chocolate chip cookie. No, two of each.

Now, for the record, I do not begrudge any Master its day, and I applaud the Swarm's ability to keep things together as long as it has. The logistical complexity of such an operation is formidable. In truth, I block out its disagreeable statements and root for its success in closing the circle, primarily because I wish to know "what happens next." My belief is that we have passed a tipping point, and that the Swarm shall - within say half of a year - control more of the Cluster's resources than all of its rivals combined. This may already be the case, or close to the case, based on relationships between the Alliance members, but I expect any such ambiguity to evaporate within the proposed time frame.

At that point, only a non-linear increase in the logistical challenge of conquest would stop closure. Resistance would, to borrow a phrase, "be futile."

However, my further belief is that the forces of this emergent shogunate will not be able to abide the boredom of victory, nor will the emergent shogunate have the ability to disarm its knights (as similar empires were able to do under different technological paradigms).

Consequently, the Master of the Master Swarm will, ironically, be the chaos unleashed by victory.

As for the eponymous region, unfortunately, I believe there are only three convenient paths from Fortress Delve to Origin Feythabolis. One is through a cluster@#$! of its own, one is way the @#$! out in the middle of nowhere, and one is Providence. Fortunately for those sympathetic to the glory of Amarr, Providence would not remain particularly important to the emergent shogunate as the circle neared completion.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#31 - 2014-02-14 02:26:58 UTC
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:
Gosakumori Noh wrote:
Successful insurgency evolves naturally into status quo. The bees behave in accordance with political history, and the circle must complete (or, in this case, the toroid).


This is sad but true. Throughout history, in every society, there have been the high, middle and low. The goal of the high are to remain where they are. The goal of the middle is replace the high. The goal of the low, when they bother to have one, has been abolish all classes. But every now and then the middle manages to trick the low into being the muscle in a revolution against the high by promising them whatever they want to hear. Once it is all over, the middle become the new high, the high get knocked down to the middle, and the low quickly get shoved right back into the same unpleasant position as before.

So Goonswarm did not truly defeat Band of Brothers - they merely took their place. And if anyone ever defeated Goonswarm, then that group would quickly become the new villains of New Eden. The Goonswarm are merely the actors of the moment in a role that is eternal.


I disgree that the middle always becomes the high, however this certainly is an interesting way to look at things.

I prefer where this discussion is heading over where it began.

-Eran

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-02-14 02:47:21 UTC
I will give the Goons credit where it is due, the cluster could not have asked for a better villain. No single entity in the galaxy can be both hated by everyone, yet admired by everyone all the same.

They still have to go though, don't get me wrong.

However, a major power rarely falls and disappears. It usually splits off into many different factions. The CFC is a coalition, made up of alliances, made up of corporations, made up of capsuleers. Whether they win or lose, there is no way that so many diverse groups of people with differing interest can exist without a hitch. Look at what happened to the Federation. The Caldari split off and we lost roughly a third of our country as a result.

One screw up, and it's all over for the Goons. Mathematically, philosophically, and what ever "ly" you can think of, gaurantees it will happen eventually. And when it does, I and many others will relish that day.

Additionally, everyone likes to back up the underdogs. Watching someone who always wins is boring. The side that has to struggle and fight against all odds makes for the better story. The Goons will never truly win because there will always be resistance, if only for the sake of resisting.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#33 - 2014-02-14 05:08:40 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
I will give the Goons credit where it is due, the cluster could not have asked for a better villain. No single entity in the galaxy can be both hated by everyone, yet admired by everyone all the same.

They still have to go though, don't get me wrong.

However, a major power rarely falls and disappears. It usually splits off into many different factions. The CFC is a coalition, made up of alliances, made up of corporations, made up of capsuleers. Whether they win or lose, there is no way that so many diverse groups of people with differing interest can exist without a hitch. Look at what happened to the Federation. The Caldari split off and we lost roughly a third of our country as a result.

One screw up, and it's all over for the Goons. Mathematically, philosophically, and what ever "ly" you can think of, gaurantees it will happen eventually. And when it does, I and many others will relish that day.

Additionally, everyone likes to back up the underdogs. Watching someone who always wins is boring. The side that has to struggle and fight against all odds makes for the better story. The Goons will never truly win because there will always be resistance, if only for the sake of resisting.


It also probably doesn't help their case that most of their opponents don't have the courtesy to actually die. For us, truly, "Like victory, defeat is but a moment under the stars."

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Malik Kalak
Long Yazi
#34 - 2014-02-14 05:17:18 UTC
Greetings everyone, I must say that I've enjoyed the discussion about the goons and the future of the space they put their pods in. I find it most insightful and intriguing, no matter how ætheric the nature of the future.
I must admit that, as time passes, the division of classes, into lower, middle and high, fades from my vision into one plane of existance. Though I see how such a structure makes for a resilient and more manageable and focused chain of command.
In the end capsuleers prosper, and capsuleers piloting together prosper together. And everything has it's season, every planet and every region as every corporation and alliance.
Granted they vary in span of time, they all exist in the same span of time.

Now as for piloting in Providence, even if you are not on the CVA KOS list, there are other entities piloting there and though many of them operate under NRDS policies, some of them can be quick to cry spy in local and set you red. Leaving little room for neutrals, cause spies be witches and witches be burned after a witch hunt.

It is outside of Concord's safe embrace, treat it as such.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#35 - 2014-02-15 09:27:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Malik Kalak wrote:
Greetings everyone, I must say that I've enjoyed the discussion about the goons and the future of the space they put their pods in. I find it most insightful and intriguing, no matter how ætheric the nature of the future.
I must admit that, as time passes, the division of classes, into lower, middle and high, fades from my vision into one plane of existance. Though I see how such a structure makes for a resilient and more manageable and focused chain of command.
In the end capsuleers prosper, and capsuleers piloting together prosper together. And everything has it's season, every planet and every region as every corporation and alliance.
Granted they vary in span of time, they all exist in the same span of time.

Now as for piloting in Providence, even if you are not on the CVA KOS list, there are other entities piloting there and though many of them operate under NRDS policies, some of them can be quick to cry spy in local and set you red. Leaving little room for neutrals, cause spies be witches and witches be burned after a witch hunt.

It is outside of Concord's safe embrace, treat it as such.


If you're talking about your personal experience, having Jericho Fraction in your employment history was probably a factor.

If you commit a crime against Providence, simply changing corps won't help.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Myxx
The Scope
#36 - 2014-02-16 08:08:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Myxx
Isus Jarode
Bondage Goat Zombie
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#37 - 2014-02-17 01:34:12 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
I will give the Goons credit where it is due, the cluster could not have asked for a better villain. No single entity in the galaxy can be both hated by everyone, yet admired by everyone all the same.

They still have to go though, don't get me wrong.

However, a major power rarely falls and disappears. It usually splits off into many different factions. The CFC is a coalition, made up of alliances, made up of corporations, made up of capsuleers. Whether they win or lose, there is no way that so many diverse groups of people with differing interest can exist without a hitch. Look at what happened to the Federation. The Caldari split off and we lost roughly a third of our country as a result.

One screw up, and it's all over for the Goons. Mathematically, philosophically, and what ever "ly" you can think of, gaurantees it will happen eventually. And when it does, I and many others will relish that day.

Additionally, everyone likes to back up the underdogs. Watching someone who always wins is boring. The side that has to struggle and fight against all odds makes for the better story. The Goons will never truly win because there will always be resistance, if only for the sake of resisting.


I would remind you, neighbor, of one inherent flaw in your argument: the Federation isn't dead. We not only survived when the Caldari abandoned us, we thrived from our schism. One could even argue that our two great nations have grown stronger because we are apart.

And keep in mind the history of Goonswarm: they have experienced schisms in the past. They rose, clashed against their great foe, stood victorious, and grew bulbous from their spoils. They grew slack from comforts. They collapsed upon themselves, had to rebuild, start fresh. And now they have returned from the ashes. Whose to say that they will ever die? Even if you wiped out every present and former Goon their ideal would survive, their lifestyle would infect others. Goonswarm will not only survive, they shall always return and thrive.

Do not waste your thoughts on pipe dreams, neighbor. Focus on other pressing matters. The Goonswarm are a force now, all one can do is let them pass like the wind and the storm.
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#38 - 2014-02-17 01:53:05 UTC
Isus Jarode wrote:
They rose, clashed against their great foe, stood victorious, and grew bulbous from their spoils.


The Swarm is now responsible, either directly or indirectly, for bringing the word "slubberdegullion" and the phrase "grew bulbous from their spoils" to my attention, for which I must necessarily be grateful. I do believe the only enemy which can fell the giant presently is the boredom of its constituent body parts, a process not unlike the bulbousness referred to above.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-02-17 05:09:43 UTC
Isus Jarode wrote:


And keep in mind the history of Goonswarm: they have experienced schisms in the past. They rose, clashed against their great foe, stood victorious, and grew bulbous from their spoils. They grew slack from comforts. They collapsed upon themselves, had to rebuild, start fresh. And now they have returned from the ashes. Whose to say that they will ever die? Even if you wiped out every present and former Goon their ideal would survive, their lifestyle would infect others. Goonswarm will not only survive, they shall always return and thrive.



People said the same about Band of Brothers.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Kithrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2014-02-17 17:30:42 UTC
I watched this topic for a while thinking: Not sure if serious or just being a goon.

All joking aside I was looking into your request and though I can't speak for the holder council as someone who is a holder and has much invested in our space I can safely say I don't trust you as far as I can shoot you.

And I like my pulse lasers.

CVA-diplo is always open to you if your honest but you don't have my vote as long as you wave that bee flag.


Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.

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