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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2301 - 2014-02-14 03:33:50 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
**** no. Why would anyone buy a ship less than a month after its release. Thats just asking to pay like 200% markup cuz of scarcity and "new hotness" value. Ill get a few in a couple months. Provide CCP doesn't chunk all over it before then.

How much do you realistically expect the price to drop? Because it's still hovering around the $1.6-billion mark...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Divi Filus
New Xenocracy
#2302 - 2014-02-14 03:36:40 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
**** no. Why would anyone buy a ship less than a month after its release. Thats just asking to pay like 200% markup cuz of scarcity and "new hotness" value. Ill get a few in a couple months. Provide CCP doesn't chunk all over it before then.

How much do you realistically expect the price to drop? Because it's still hovering around the $1.6-billion mark...


Because it is still tied to its faction LP conversion rate, unlike every other pirate faction. The drone chip drops will remove this constraint. It is not guaranteed, but not unreasonable to suppose, that these drops will create a downward pressure on the market value.
Mario Putzo
#2303 - 2014-02-14 03:43:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
**** no. Why would anyone buy a ship less than a month after its release. Thats just asking to pay like 200% markup cuz of scarcity and "new hotness" value. Ill get a few in a couple months. Provide CCP doesn't chunk all over it before then.

How much do you realistically expect the price to drop? Because it's still hovering around the $1.6-billion mark...


Probably down to around 1.1-1.3B and when the Chips thing goes live I could see it sitting around 800K-1B. Similar to other faction ships. Might even go cheaper than 800K hard to say until the chips rarity is confirmed. I don't think Nestor will ever be as useful as the Vindi so using it as bench marks with my "in the head" math.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#2304 - 2014-02-14 04:36:17 UTC
The drone chips will probably have more downward pressure on the price than bpc drops for other pirate factions because of how....algorithmically the drone regions are farmed
Divi Filus
New Xenocracy
#2305 - 2014-02-14 07:52:47 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
The drone chips will probably have more downward pressure on the price than bpc drops for other pirate factions because of how....algorithmically the drone regions are farmed


I see what you did there.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#2306 - 2014-02-14 08:33:40 UTC  |  Edited by: TrouserDeagle
Mario Putzo wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
**** no. Why would anyone buy a ship less than a month after its release. Thats just asking to pay like 200% markup cuz of scarcity and "new hotness" value. Ill get a few in a couple months. Provide CCP doesn't chunk all over it before then.

How much do you realistically expect the price to drop? Because it's still hovering around the $1.6-billion mark...


Probably down to around 1.1-1.3B and when the Chips thing goes live I could see it sitting around 800K-1B. Similar to other faction ships. Might even go cheaper than 800K hard to say until the chips rarity is confirmed. I don't think Nestor will ever be as useful as the Vindi so using it as bench marks with my "in the head" math.


they could reduce the vindicator's highslots by 8 and it would still be stupidly OP (yes, it's time to derail the thread).
Mario Putzo
#2307 - 2014-02-14 10:10:13 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
**** no. Why would anyone buy a ship less than a month after its release. Thats just asking to pay like 200% markup cuz of scarcity and "new hotness" value. Ill get a few in a couple months. Provide CCP doesn't chunk all over it before then.

How much do you realistically expect the price to drop? Because it's still hovering around the $1.6-billion mark...


Probably down to around 1.1-1.3B and when the Chips thing goes live I could see it sitting around 800K-1B. Similar to other faction ships. Might even go cheaper than 800K hard to say until the chips rarity is confirmed. I don't think Nestor will ever be as useful as the Vindi so using it as bench marks with my "in the head" math.


they could reduce the vindicator's highslots by 8 and it would still be stupidly OP (yes, it's time to derail the thread).


Where did the bad vinditouch you.
Jell Feed
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2308 - 2014-02-14 14:59:17 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Logis aren't overpowered. Besides, if you nerf them, we'll just bring more of them.


1 scythe repping 1 moa reps 1300 dps, roughly 3-4x the damage that a typical cruiser can put out. As a cruiser, it should rep about the same damage that a cruiser does.

1 scythe repping 1 moa should rep more like 300 dps. It should also do it at typical cruiser ranges of maybe 20-30km.

Even on a shield thorax, the scythe reps over 800 dps.

A team of 1 scythe+1 thorax vs another scythe+thorax ends in a stalemate - neither side can kill the other.

And this is without getting into t2 logi which rep even more. (A basi reps almost twice as much)


Michael Harari wrote:
A team of 1 scythe+1 thorax vs another scythe+thorax ends in a stalemate - neither side can kill the other.


Really... kill the other scythe first...

Michael Harari wrote:

As a cruiser, it should rep about the same damage that a cruiser does.
1 scythe repping 1 moa should rep more like 300 dps. It should also do it at typical cruiser ranges of maybe 20-30km.


then whats the point of a logistic ship... 2 actvive tanked dps ships will always be better.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2309 - 2014-02-14 22:23:32 UTC
I keep seeing the odd comment that Nestors don't suck. I think the sales numbers speak for themselves, but I'd like to hear from some satisfied owners (not speculators)...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#2310 - 2014-02-14 23:49:29 UTC
Regarding the Nestor and reps:

It is my opinion that reps themselves need a bit of a looking at. I think all remote reppers/remote transfer arrays of all sizes need to have their ranges looked at. I think they are all a bit too short ranged which is one reason they aren't all too hot when mounted to something other than a logistics cruiser. I think increasing the range on all remote assistance would help ships like the Nestor as well as potentially improve the meta a bit by making their fittment to non logi/support vessels a bit more viable. I know spidertanking has been a thing for the longest time, but it can't hurt to t

Obviously a buff in rance means logis would need their bonus scaled back, but the range after bonus should remain about the same
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2311 - 2014-02-15 00:39:42 UTC
Nestor is garbage.

A 180mil dominix is better then nestor in every single way.

So, devs, take your nestor, take your drone region drops idea, and go back to the drawing board.
Mario Putzo
#2312 - 2014-02-15 01:46:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Nestor is garbage.

A 180mil dominix is better then nestor in every single way.

So, devs, take your nestor, take your drone region drops idea, and go back to the drawing board.



This is actually false. You can get similar DPS, similar damage application, better tank, better on field longevity. You can fit the Nestor to be a very strong fleet ship in larger numbers, to the point that it would wipe the field with any equally fielded dominix fleet.

Ill sell the Fits start bib @ 1B each.

The only thing the Dominix does better is it costs less. That being said the Nestor does need some help to make it more friendly for smaller group use (which I think was its intended use)
Hena Muri
Perkone
Caldari State
#2313 - 2014-02-15 03:27:09 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Nestor is garbage.

A 180mil dominix is better then nestor in every single way.

So, devs, take your nestor, take your drone region drops idea, and go back to the drawing board.



This is actually false. You can get similar DPS, similar damage application, better tank, better on field longevity. You can fit the Nestor to be a very strong fleet ship in larger numbers, to the point that it would wipe the field with any equally fielded dominix fleet.

Ill sell the Fits start bib @ 1B each.

The only thing the Dominix does better is it costs less. That being said the Nestor does need some help to make it more friendly for smaller group use (which I think was its intended use)


The problem here is that if you bring the same cost to the field the Domi's will wipe the board with you. You can get almost 10 Domi's for every 1 Nestor right now. If they get the price down to 800mil that's still 4-5 domi's per Nestor.

If you do the same comparison with Rattlesnakes + Logi's you're in so deep you won't be able to kill a single ship before your fleet is gone (barring alpha shot tactics from mass sentry drone assisting in massive fleet engagements but the Rattlesnake has 150K EHP compared to the 90k of the nestor so it takes more drones per kill as well). You can literally get three rattlesnakes and a Logi for every Nestor. The Rattlesnake puts out the same DPS, has a godly tank, and is less than 1/3 the going price of a Nestor. A single Logi will easily outperform two Nestor's.

On a per person basis I like the Nestor. It has the ability to fleet force multiply in ways only carriers can otherwise. But that cap. Damn, when I'm fitting a Nestor, I spend sooooooo much fitting on getting the cap to useable levels on an ALL V character that by the time I finish there is no way I can justify even 800 million on this ship.

A well fit tengu is about 600 mil, fielding four of those brings me to 2.4 mil. If the Nestor was at 800 mil just the tech 2 cap rigs needed to make it work would still bring an equivalent fleet to 3 billion isk and have way more risk running sites. All of that for 1 less player. (Note: that I am not calculating in the sig radius reduction or the training time of the tengu either as that makes this comparison even more absurd.)

I'd like to see what the Nestor would be like with a more reasonable cap. The Nightmare has 6950 base capacitor with 15 cap/sec and uses only four lasers compared to the Nestor's 5. The Nestor currently has 6200 with 14.8 cap per second. I would love to see the Nestor treated like it's actually supposed to fire it's lasers and be brought up to 6950 as well, but keep the same recharge time, it'll only amount to about a 1.7 cap per second increase or about 12% but that'll mean one less Capacitor Control Circuit or one less Cap recharger needed which will hopefully give the ship the extra tank/DPS that most people are looking for to justify the billion isk price tag it should have.

Simulating this with EFT using a large Cap Battery 2 (only adds 700 instead of 750) gives more reasonable cap numbers.

As long as I don't swap to conflag I can easily fire 4 lasers and keep two reps going constantly. Given the ship really needs one drone link augmentor anyway that's a full fit.

Alternatively, (but this doesn't help the sentry people any, and maybe that's the point). You could put a done navigation computer 2's bonus in the drone bonus for the ship which frees up that mid slot instead. My issue there is that this ship feels heavily bonused already and while some of them will largely be unused, it still feels wrong to fix it through bonuses than base stats.

Just my $.02
_WAter_
Mario Putzo
#2314 - 2014-02-15 03:32:21 UTC
You'll have to pay the price if you want the advice.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2315 - 2014-02-15 04:09:52 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
You'll have to pay the price if you want the advice.

Notice there are no takers...?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mario Putzo
#2316 - 2014-02-15 05:54:56 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
You'll have to pay the price if you want the advice.

Notice there are no takers...?


Well no ****. No one is going to pay 1B for a fit they can figure out themselves in EFT. It shouldn't be to hard for people to figure out how to fit one tbh.

Ill make you a special offer though for this limit time only I will provide you with the DPS fit, and the Tank Fit for the low price of 500M.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2317 - 2014-02-15 06:14:02 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Well no ****. No one is going to pay 1B for a fit they can figure out themselves in EFT. It shouldn't be to hard for people to figure out how to fit one tbh.

Ill make you a special offer though for this limit time only I will provide you with the DPS fit, and the Tank Fit for the low price of 500M.

"By Grabthar's hammer... what a savings!"

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mario Putzo
#2318 - 2014-02-15 06:40:49 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Well no ****. No one is going to pay 1B for a fit they can figure out themselves in EFT. It shouldn't be to hard for people to figure out how to fit one tbh.

Ill make you a special offer though for this limit time only I will provide you with the DPS fit, and the Tank Fit for the low price of 500M.

"By Grabthar's hammer... what a savings!"


Big smile Really though, it isn't fit much different than a domi. It has a bit less overall range and tracking but it has a much higher EHP, and is capable of scaling much higher RR numbers and being Cap Stable. With the exact same DPS and Alpha Damage.

Basically you pay for Cap Stability, A higher DPS tank, and a Higher buffer EHP. When the price comes down this ship will be better to field over a domi in most scenarios. Exception being small numbers.
sabastyian
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#2319 - 2014-02-15 06:42:17 UTC
http://i.imgur.com/3modQ1Q.jpg
The tank is underwhelming for the price of 6b ( slaved, 2.3-2.5 for the fit ) Cap life is horrible, cap transfers give more cap then they take and this fit is receiving 2 transfers. Needs the mindflood and ra-706 to be cap stable, could probably make this a little better, this is just something i threw togther
Mario Putzo
#2320 - 2014-02-15 06:43:05 UTC
That is a terrible fit.