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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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TXG SYNC
Dad Jokes R Us
#2261 - 2014-02-12 23:28:33 UTC  |  Edited by: TXG SYNC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
and all it took was three scorpions


...thus countering the argument that in a small gang (admittedly, about a dozen pilots on each side, not 8) three Guardians are "not killable"; also, remember that third Scorpion was very late on the field, but may have been the tipping point that led our opponents to evac rather than stay on-field.

ECM works well, even against ECCM'd Guardians (as demonstrated). Falcons and Rooks are arguably more effective than Scorpions at this job. Neuts work. Damps work in a situational fashion. Tracking disruptors... heh, heh, moving on...

Actually it would be really cool if tracking disruptors worked to disrupt remote rep in some way.

I simply suggest that anyone who thinks a trio of Guardians is nigh-unkillable in a small gang simply has not had enough experience in the different ways people will show you how useless a Guardian is against a prepared gang. The counter isn't "bring your own Guardians"; there are many different types of Paper to cover the Guardian's Rock!

The Nestor, even more so due to the aforementioned limitations of range, lock time, signature, etc.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#2262 - 2014-02-12 23:33:03 UTC
TXG SYNC wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
and all it took was three scorpions


...thus countering the argument that in a small gang (admittedly, about a dozen pilots on each side, not 8) three Guardians are "not killable"; also, remember that third Scorpion was very late on the field, but may have been the tipping point that led our opponents to evac rather than stay on-field.

ECM works well, even against ECCM'd Guardians (as demonstrated). Falcons and Rooks are arguably more effective than Scorpions at this job. Neuts work. Damps work in a situational fashion. Tracking disruptors... heh, heh, moving on...

Actually it would be really cool if tracking disruptors worked to disrupt remote rep in some way.

I simply suggest that anyone who thinks a trio of Guardians is nigh-unkillable in a small gang simply has not had enough experience in the different ways people will show you how useless a Guardian is against a prepared gang. The counter isn't "bring your own Guardians"; there are many different types of Paper to cover the Guardian's Rock!

The Nestor, even more so due to the aforementioned limitations of range, lock time, signature, etc.


have you considered that ecm is also overpowered? and the amount of neuting required is way out of proportion. I see no reason for logistics to have special near-immunity to neutralisers, it's bad.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Shadow Cartel
#2263 - 2014-02-12 23:47:16 UTC
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
Steph Livingston wrote:
Eh, I'm willing to give the Nestor the benefit of the doubt for now. I won't buy one off the market, but I may pick one up using LP, when I have a surplus.

I know it's not the greatest ship right now, but I really want to be able to give CCP some solid feedback so they can balance it properly over the next few patches.


The idea that it will take a few patches to fix a single object that was said to be flawed and tried before its release (unlike other modules that we wont mention) is indicative of CCP's fail staff and development process.



Exactly right. The people who develop the game, who supposedly know it inside and out, were too dumb to see that this ship was crap from the get go. How they released it in it's current form is beyond me; hilarious, really.

They fail miserably in so many regards *cough* links.
TXG SYNC
Dad Jokes R Us
#2264 - 2014-02-12 23:47:36 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
I see no reason for logistics to have special near-immunity to neutralisers, it's bad.


You do have to fit to fight the neuts, expecting that they'll be coming. Triple cap transfer seems to be a popular thing right now, otherwise a neut Legion will easily 1-for-1 counter a Guardian or Basilisk in a trio (the other two can keep going, but 1 ship to counter 1 ship is acceptable). It's a tough trade-off to justify as a general-purpose fit; in our fleet fight last night, if all four of our Guardians had not had four reppers apiece, we'd have certainly lost several T3s instead of pulling off a victory with only one loss.

That said, yes, a triple-transfer setup on a Guardian gives you near-immunity to neuts.

A Nestor has no such bonus.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Shadow Cartel
#2265 - 2014-02-12 23:48:47 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
TXG SYNC wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
and all it took was three scorpions


...thus countering the argument that in a small gang (admittedly, about a dozen pilots on each side, not 8) three Guardians are "not killable"; also, remember that third Scorpion was very late on the field, but may have been the tipping point that led our opponents to evac rather than stay on-field.

ECM works well, even against ECCM'd Guardians (as demonstrated). Falcons and Rooks are arguably more effective than Scorpions at this job. Neuts work. Damps work in a situational fashion. Tracking disruptors... heh, heh, moving on...

Actually it would be really cool if tracking disruptors worked to disrupt remote rep in some way.

I simply suggest that anyone who thinks a trio of Guardians is nigh-unkillable in a small gang simply has not had enough experience in the different ways people will show you how useless a Guardian is against a prepared gang. The counter isn't "bring your own Guardians"; there are many different types of Paper to cover the Guardian's Rock!

The Nestor, even more so due to the aforementioned limitations of range, lock time, signature, etc.


have you considered that ecm is also overpowered? and the amount of neuting required is way out of proportion. I see no reason for logistics to have special near-immunity to neutralisers, it's bad.



ECM is blatantly overpowered. Another thing CCP somehow fails to realize.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#2266 - 2014-02-12 23:58:53 UTC
Phaade wrote:



ECM is blatantly overpowered. Another thing CCP somehow fails to realize.


Rise has stated he hates ECM. Problem is resourses... It would take programers and QA people away from other items that currently higher on the list.

One day ECM will be fixed one day.

I mean I fixed it years ago... just waiting on the implementation

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#2267 - 2014-02-13 00:08:34 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
It would take programers and QA people away from other items that currently higher on the list.
Indeed! We certainly would NOT want to prevent them from focusing on more fantastic content like "loot bukkake", the Nestor, and ESSs! I mean it's not like people actually fight in small engagements anyway, sov-blob is where it's at... yo. \o/
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#2268 - 2014-02-13 00:33:05 UTC
TXG SYNC wrote:

A Nestor has no such bonus.


I still don't get why you think this is a bad thing.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#2269 - 2014-02-13 00:40:28 UTC
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Why are you guys acting like this is a logistics cruiser ballance thread?

Logistics are I vital part of any fleet. Part of being a good FC it making sure you can counter enemy logistics with good e-war and if you know the other side has overwhelming logistics, you simply don't take the fight if you are not willing to loose.

Perhaps guardians could do with a little Leeds scan res and sensor strength but that's about it.



They could do with repping an amount of damage that a t2 cruiser can output, not 4 battleships.
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2270 - 2014-02-13 01:10:41 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Why are you guys acting like this is a logistics cruiser ballance thread?

Logistics are I vital part of any fleet. Part of being a good FC it making sure you can counter enemy logistics with good e-war and if you know the other side has overwhelming logistics, you simply don't take the fight if you are not willing to loose.

Perhaps guardians could do with a little Leeds scan res and sensor strength but that's about it.



They could do with repping an amount of damage that a t2 cruiser can output, not 4 battleships.



actually they could deal with 4 bs too in spider tank mode but ccp gave them far to few of a cap recharge.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#2271 - 2014-02-13 01:55:18 UTC
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Why are you guys acting like this is a logistics cruiser ballance thread?

Logistics are I vital part of any fleet. Part of being a good FC it making sure you can counter enemy logistics with good e-war and if you know the other side has overwhelming logistics, you simply don't take the fight if you are not willing to loose.

Perhaps guardians could do with a little Leeds scan res and sensor strength but that's about it.



They could do with repping an amount of damage that a t2 cruiser can output, not 4 battleships.



actually they could deal with 4 bs too in spider tank mode but ccp gave them far to few of a cap recharge.


Englishes very much hard
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#2272 - 2014-02-13 02:06:40 UTC
Is it me or did the Astero and Stratios once have the ability to fit a covert cyno that got removed?

Or was I drunk? Why did I train it?

I know the Nestor never did. Ugh


They give the Nestor something special yet?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2273 - 2014-02-13 02:42:03 UTC
Astero and Stratios never had that ability, as far as I can recall.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Mario Putzo
#2274 - 2014-02-13 02:51:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
I am selling 2 Nestor Fits that are actually useful in a fleet.

Start the bidding at 1B.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Shadow Cartel
#2275 - 2014-02-13 03:05:56 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Phaade wrote:



ECM is blatantly overpowered. Another thing CCP somehow fails to realize.


Rise has stated he hates ECM. Problem is resourses... It would take programers and QA people away from other items that currently higher on the list.

One day ECM will be fixed one day.

I mean I fixed it years ago... just waiting on the implementation



What could be higher on the list than balance? Aside from a 0.0 revamp, which will never happen.
Mario Putzo
#2276 - 2014-02-13 03:26:21 UTC
Phaade wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Phaade wrote:



ECM is blatantly overpowered. Another thing CCP somehow fails to realize.


Rise has stated he hates ECM. Problem is resourses... It would take programers and QA people away from other items that currently higher on the list.

One day ECM will be fixed one day.

I mean I fixed it years ago... just waiting on the implementation



What could be higher on the list than balance? Aside from a 0.0 revamp, which will never happen.


ECM is an easy fix. Instead of shutting off all targeting systems. Make it shut off drone bandwidth. People can still do other stuff, but they lose connection to drones, and must reconnect and reassign.

Send me my check plz CCP.
Mike Flynn
Energy
#2277 - 2014-02-13 03:40:43 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Phaade wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Phaade wrote:



ECM is blatantly overpowered. Another thing CCP somehow fails to realize.


Rise has stated he hates ECM. Problem is resourses... It would take programers and QA people away from other items that currently higher on the list.

One day ECM will be fixed one day.

I mean I fixed it years ago... just waiting on the implementation



What could be higher on the list than balance? Aside from a 0.0 revamp, which will never happen.


ECM is an easy fix. Instead of shutting off all targeting systems. Make it shut off drone bandwidth. People can still do other stuff, but they lose connection to drones, and must reconnect and reassign.

Send me my check plz CCP.


Makes sense actually. ECM should counter Gallente ships well and it really counters everything except Gallente main strength.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#2278 - 2014-02-13 11:38:14 UTC
Mike Flynn wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Phaade wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Phaade wrote:



ECM is blatantly overpowered. Another thing CCP somehow fails to realize.


Rise has stated he hates ECM. Problem is resourses... It would take programers and QA people away from other items that currently higher on the list.

One day ECM will be fixed one day.

I mean I fixed it years ago... just waiting on the implementation



What could be higher on the list than balance? Aside from a 0.0 revamp, which will never happen.


ECM is an easy fix. Instead of shutting off all targeting systems. Make it shut off drone bandwidth. People can still do other stuff, but they lose connection to drones, and must reconnect and reassign.

Send me my check plz CCP.


Makes sense actually. ECM should counter Gallente ships well and it really counters everything except Gallente main strength.


it would make sense if it cut off all electronic signals that gives orders too drones ,,, might be a nice way besides nerfing sentries (drone assist too) too balance drones better with a harder counter as they have very little too counter them atm.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2279 - 2014-02-13 11:51:34 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
I am selling 2 Nestor Fits that are actually useful in a fleet.

Start the bidding at 1B.


I never buy second-hand goods that people want to sell. I always feel that if the goods were useful, they wouldn't be for sale.

If you're willing to take a 2Bn loss just to be rid of these two abominations, I can only assume you believe that they'll never be useful to you.

Which is what I believe too.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2280 - 2014-02-13 12:16:21 UTC
Mike Flynn wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Phaade wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Phaade wrote:



ECM is blatantly overpowered. Another thing CCP somehow fails to realize.


Rise has stated he hates ECM. Problem is resourses... It would take programers and QA people away from other items that currently higher on the list.

One day ECM will be fixed one day.

I mean I fixed it years ago... just waiting on the implementation



What could be higher on the list than balance? Aside from a 0.0 revamp, which will never happen.


ECM is an easy fix. Instead of shutting off all targeting systems. Make it shut off drone bandwidth. People can still do other stuff, but they lose connection to drones, and must reconnect and reassign.

Send me my check plz CCP.


Makes sense actually. ECM should counter Gallente ships well and it really counters everything except Gallente main strength.


No it doesn't make sense at all... Actually it's a pretty ridiculous proposal as not all ships use drones.

ECM is fine for the most part, they just need to reduce the chance of being perma jammed.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...