These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

What happened to the stuff Incarna was supposed to bring?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ai Shun
#141 - 2014-02-11 21:19:59 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
They'd still want to keep their head down - DUST mercs are trained to throw themselves into the fight heedless of danger, I imagine capsuleers would still prefer to use cover and concealment. Especially if dying stationside as a capsuleer came with some serious drawbacks, like losing all the SP you'd gained since the last time you jumpcloned or were podded.


This image, from one of the Chronicles if I recall correctly, was burned into my mind as the visage of a capsuleer. I will always struggle to reconcile Han Solo or Malcolm Reynolds, amazing as they are in their sci-fi universes, with the immortal gods that are capsuleers. It never made sense for me that capsuleers would reduce themselves to a physical form like that with all the risks involved in it. That always seemed to be more for the mundane, those who fly regular ships or - worse - as cargo. Hence, in my suggestion thread, I suggested that capsuleers use a simulacrum or other projection - not their real, pod-bound bodies.

Quote:
Despite the advances made in cloning tech, in almost every single environment retransplantation of the mind at time of death is still risky ground. The crucial element in the process relies on a brain-scan snapshot being taken at the precise time of death and transmitted to the waiting clone, and so the transneural burning scanner required to do so needs to be mounted somewhere close to the person at all times. Since the snapshot itself causes massive physical damage to the gray matter, there can be no margin of error; it needs to be done at the exact time of death. In planetary vehicles, the cloning companies have experimented with mounting the transneural scanner in a variety of locations, but the almost limitless potentiality of planet-bound environments has proved time and again that it just isn’t safe – snapshots either go off due to false stimuli, leaving healthy clients in a vegetative state, or fail to go off due to circumstances unforeseen by the safeguard mechanism, leaving clients dead with no chance of retransplantation.

In the capsule, however, things are different. All the equipment needs to do is detect a breach in the pod, because – as every cadet has hammered into his head from the moment he starts training – pod breach, without exception, spells doom for the person inside. Therefore, the instant the egg begins to crack, two things happen: the wire-cap on the pilot’s head injects an instantly lethal nanotoxin into his bloodstream and the scanner sends its piercing light into his skull. Scarce seconds later, he begins the muddy climb towards consciousness in a new body, light years away.


Of course, Dust has changed the way cloning works. But that's the way it used to be for us Smile
Paul Panala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#142 - 2014-02-11 22:04:35 UTC
Tarpedo wrote:
There are rumors CCP has fully functional Gallente station interiors - on internal test server...


There are rumors I will double any amount of ISK you send me.
Billy McCandless
Zacharia Explorations Group
#143 - 2014-02-11 22:09:40 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
I imagine ... a ....projection.... of the... almost limitless potentiality of ...circumstances unforeseen..
In the capsule..... for us Smile



<3 <3 <3

mi two bebbei

mi two

<3 <3 <3

"Thread locked for being deemed a total loss." - ISD Ezwal
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#144 - 2014-02-11 22:13:30 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
They'd still want to keep their head down - DUST mercs are trained to throw themselves into the fight heedless of danger, I imagine capsuleers would still prefer to use cover and concealment. Especially if dying stationside as a capsuleer came with some serious drawbacks, like losing all the SP you'd gained since the last time you jumpcloned or were podded.


This image, from one of the Chronicles if I recall correctly, was burned into my mind as the visage of a capsuleer. I will always struggle to reconcile Han Solo or Malcolm Reynolds, amazing as they are in their sci-fi universes, with the immortal gods that are capsuleers. It never made sense for me that capsuleers would reduce themselves to a physical form like that with all the risks involved in it. That always seemed to be more for the mundane, those who fly regular ships or - worse - as cargo. Hence, in my suggestion thread, I suggested that capsuleers use a simulacrum or other projection - not their real, pod-bound bodies.

Quote:
Despite the advances made in cloning tech, in almost every single environment retransplantation of the mind at time of death is still risky ground. The crucial element in the process relies on a brain-scan snapshot being taken at the precise time of death and transmitted to the waiting clone, and so the transneural burning scanner required to do so needs to be mounted somewhere close to the person at all times. Since the snapshot itself causes massive physical damage to the gray matter, there can be no margin of error; it needs to be done at the exact time of death. In planetary vehicles, the cloning companies have experimented with mounting the transneural scanner in a variety of locations, but the almost limitless potentiality of planet-bound environments has proved time and again that it just isn’t safe – snapshots either go off due to false stimuli, leaving healthy clients in a vegetative state, or fail to go off due to circumstances unforeseen by the safeguard mechanism, leaving clients dead with no chance of retransplantation.

In the capsule, however, things are different. All the equipment needs to do is detect a breach in the pod, because – as every cadet has hammered into his head from the moment he starts training – pod breach, without exception, spells doom for the person inside. Therefore, the instant the egg begins to crack, two things happen: the wire-cap on the pilot’s head injects an instantly lethal nanotoxin into his bloodstream and the scanner sends its piercing light into his skull. Scarce seconds later, he begins the muddy climb towards consciousness in a new body, light years away.


Of course, Dust has changed the way cloning works. But that's the way it used to be for us Smile


that's the way it still is for us. Dust clones use sleeper implants which are wholly different in terms of implementation and technology. +1 on your other points.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Reckless Ourtomineng
#145 - 2014-02-11 22:14:35 UTC
Billy McCandless wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
I imagine ... a ....projection.... of the... almost limitless potentiality of ...circumstances unforeseen..
In the capsule..... for us Smile



<3 <3 <3

mi two bebbei

mi two

<3 <3 <3


Did you know that your posts hurt eyes?
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#146 - 2014-02-12 00:28:16 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
They'd still want to keep their head down - DUST mercs are trained to throw themselves into the fight heedless of danger, I imagine capsuleers would still prefer to use cover and concealment. Especially if dying stationside as a capsuleer came with some serious drawbacks, like losing all the SP you'd gained since the last time you jumpcloned or were podded.


This image, from one of the Chronicles if I recall correctly, was burned into my mind as the visage of a capsuleer. I will always struggle to reconcile Han Solo or Malcolm Reynolds, amazing as they are in their sci-fi universes, with the immortal gods that are capsuleers. It never made sense for me that capsuleers would reduce themselves to a physical form like that with all the risks involved in it. That always seemed to be more for the mundane, those who fly regular ships or - worse - as cargo. Hence, in my suggestion thread, I suggested that capsuleers use a simulacrum or other projection - not their real, pod-bound bodies.

Quote:
Despite the advances made in cloning tech, in almost every single environment retransplantation of the mind at time of death is still risky ground. The crucial element in the process relies on a brain-scan snapshot being taken at the precise time of death and transmitted to the waiting clone, and so the transneural burning scanner required to do so needs to be mounted somewhere close to the person at all times. Since the snapshot itself causes massive physical damage to the gray matter, there can be no margin of error; it needs to be done at the exact time of death. In planetary vehicles, the cloning companies have experimented with mounting the transneural scanner in a variety of locations, but the almost limitless potentiality of planet-bound environments has proved time and again that it just isn’t safe – snapshots either go off due to false stimuli, leaving healthy clients in a vegetative state, or fail to go off due to circumstances unforeseen by the safeguard mechanism, leaving clients dead with no chance of retransplantation.

In the capsule, however, things are different. All the equipment needs to do is detect a breach in the pod, because – as every cadet has hammered into his head from the moment he starts training – pod breach, without exception, spells doom for the person inside. Therefore, the instant the egg begins to crack, two things happen: the wire-cap on the pilot’s head injects an instantly lethal nanotoxin into his bloodstream and the scanner sends its piercing light into his skull. Scarce seconds later, he begins the muddy climb towards consciousness in a new body, light years away.


Of course, Dust has changed the way cloning works. But that's the way it used to be for us Smile



okay, hear me out.

1: not all capsuleers are the same. Some may feel emasculated and out-of-touch in the pod and want to get their hands dirty to scratch an itch. Others might feel more as you suggest and prefer to be warships at all times. Some might not see anything practical to be gained from it, others might just be like "hey, it's a way to gain money and power, let's do this."

The point is, you can't point at any one trait that's common to all capsuleers, especially not over something like "do they ever feel like decanting, rolling up their sleeves and doing things in person?" I'm a roleplayer, and if you pointed him at the guy from that chronicle, my character would have said he was an insecure moron who used an intimidating persona to try and compensate for his personal inadequacies.

2: when I talk about cloning post-death out of capsule, I'm talking about so called "soft" or "cold" cloning, a procedure which is referenced throughout the PF (mission flavour text, for instance) but not in any of the technical backstory. it's restoring from backup - you create a neural profile and restore that rather than attempting to transfer the up-to-date brain.

3: point 2 is why I suggest that getting killed out-of-pod would delete all the SP you gained since you last jumpcloned or were podded - that's the last time you had your brain scanned and the information backed up.

4: Technology moves on, and the PF can be - indeed should be - adapted post-hoc to justify new game mechanics. This is exactly what happened with the DUST implant. Interesting and enjoyable game mechanics and modes shouldn't be vetoed because they don't match the state of the current fiction - fiction always has to play second fiddle to the gameplay. Always.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Kuronaga
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#147 - 2014-02-12 04:47:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuronaga
Jenn aSide wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
But the point above still stands, Eve isn't just a spaceship game. Never has been, never will be.


If you remove the spaceships from EVE (and change nothing else) what are you left with? What could you do in EVE that would have any meaning?

EVERYTHING revovles around space ships. The market, the community, the game play, ever concievable interaction has spaceships at it's core. you can't pilot a Mech or a tank or an (underwater) submarine or a race car. If you want to be EVE Infantry you have to buy a PS3 lol.

Yes, it's just about space ships, and it will be until CCP lets me pilot my MTAC into a Sansha Star base's docking ring and wreck shop, which is the only walking in a station I really want to do.




I don't give two damns about spaceships and I've been playing since 2005. I just like ganking people and making it hurt in an open world. Eve provides excellent opportunities for griefing. If it provided some additional medium for that, it would be very welcomed. If it provided ways to kick back when I need a break, that too would be welcomed.

Spaceships? Seriously, who cares.

Willingly limiting the scope of what you can do within a game is just about the single dumbest thing a gamer can wish for.
Tiberius StarGazer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#148 - 2014-02-12 05:32:26 UTC
This has worried me slightly since I started playing over a year ago. Since becoming executor of an alliance a lot of my game time is actually in station. While I try to undock as often as I can, I can still spend hours in station typing messages with my avatar on screen - it gives me a sense of immersion.

I'm pretty sure same thing probably applies to station traders, diplos, people managing their industry & science.

Say I'm reading a message and the avatar (say like a hologram) of the person who sent it to me is shown, maybe animated like its a recorded massage to me that would add so much more immersion for me playing the game.

Or when I hold private conversation with people in station I'm in a room with their avatar.

Or hold and alliance wide meeting...

You get the idea.

I'm just worried that games like Star Citizen will get the jump on eve for having this immersive content Eve doesn't have.

Interestingly, I was talking to the wife of an alliance mate and she was explaining to me that she preferred to play other mmo's and was going to quit eve. When asked why her response was quite simple - I find it easier to become more attached to my actual avatar, but find it hard to relate to a ship in space I know is going to get blown up.

That pretty much summarised why I would like WiS expanded upon.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2014-02-12 06:15:11 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
This image, from one of the Chronicles if I recall correctly, was burned into my mind as the visage of a capsuleer.

This was wonderful to see. I really like this concept.

The description under the image:
Quote:
Some capsuleers find it useful to project a certain sort of image towards the baseline population on the planets below them.

... reminds me of "residual self image" as described in The Matrix.

/蘭

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Kuronaga
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#150 - 2014-02-12 10:41:41 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
They'd still want to keep their head down - DUST mercs are trained to throw themselves into the fight heedless of danger, I imagine capsuleers would still prefer to use cover and concealment. Especially if dying stationside as a capsuleer came with some serious drawbacks, like losing all the SP you'd gained since the last time you jumpcloned or were podded.


This image, from one of the Chronicles if I recall correctly, was burned into my mind as the visage of a capsuleer. I will always struggle to reconcile Han Solo or Malcolm Reynolds, amazing as they are in their sci-fi universes, with the immortal gods that are capsuleers. It never made sense for me that capsuleers would reduce themselves to a physical form like that with all the risks involved in it. That always seemed to be more for the mundane, those who fly regular ships or - worse - as cargo. Hence, in my suggestion thread, I suggested that capsuleers use a simulacrum or other projection - not their real, pod-bound bodies.

Quote:
Despite the advances made in cloning tech, in almost every single environment retransplantation of the mind at time of death is still risky ground. The crucial element in the process relies on a brain-scan snapshot being taken at the precise time of death and transmitted to the waiting clone, and so the transneural burning scanner required to do so needs to be mounted somewhere close to the person at all times. Since the snapshot itself causes massive physical damage to the gray matter, there can be no margin of error; it needs to be done at the exact time of death. In planetary vehicles, the cloning companies have experimented with mounting the transneural scanner in a variety of locations, but the almost limitless potentiality of planet-bound environments has proved time and again that it just isn’t safe – snapshots either go off due to false stimuli, leaving healthy clients in a vegetative state, or fail to go off due to circumstances unforeseen by the safeguard mechanism, leaving clients dead with no chance of retransplantation.

In the capsule, however, things are different. All the equipment needs to do is detect a breach in the pod, because – as every cadet has hammered into his head from the moment he starts training – pod breach, without exception, spells doom for the person inside. Therefore, the instant the egg begins to crack, two things happen: the wire-cap on the pilot’s head injects an instantly lethal nanotoxin into his bloodstream and the scanner sends its piercing light into his skull. Scarce seconds later, he begins the muddy climb towards consciousness in a new body, light years away.


Of course, Dust has changed the way cloning works. But that's the way it used to be for us Smile


that's the way it still is for us. Dust clones use sleeper implants which are wholly different in terms of implementation and technology. +1 on your other points.



Only first generation Mercs use the sleeper implants and as a result many become "possessed" and go rampant.

Second and third generation mercs use empire-created technology that was based on the same science learned from the first generation. So yes, it is possible that capsuleers themselves could indeed receive an upgrade from that knowledge.
Tysun Kane
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#151 - 2014-02-12 10:59:18 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
TedStriker wrote:
Yes, even the most extended visions so far (before the release) never included any action gameplay.


Have you been living under a rock? You never saw the Eve Forever trailer?



I remember that trailer it made me want to play eve so bad lol.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#152 - 2014-02-12 17:05:21 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
They'd still want to keep their head down - DUST mercs are trained to throw themselves into the fight heedless of danger, I imagine capsuleers would still prefer to use cover and concealment. Especially if dying stationside as a capsuleer came with some serious drawbacks, like losing all the SP you'd gained since the last time you jumpcloned or were podded.


This image, from one of the Chronicles if I recall correctly, was burned into my mind as the visage of a capsuleer. I will always struggle to reconcile Han Solo or Malcolm Reynolds, amazing as they are in their sci-fi universes, with the immortal gods that are capsuleers. It never made sense for me that capsuleers would reduce themselves to a physical form like that with all the risks involved in it. That always seemed to be more for the mundane, those who fly regular ships or - worse - as cargo. Hence, in my suggestion thread, I suggested that capsuleers use a simulacrum or other projection - not their real, pod-bound bodies.

While i agree that the risks of leaving your capsule, for whatever reason, are high and generally far greater than the reward; there are some things that you can't do through a simulcrum. When it comes to immortal demi-gods the capsuleer community strike me as quite Ancient Greek about it.
Exploring wrecks in space? Send a remote or a team of plebians in...
Shady business deals you want to keep off the Fluid Routers? Even they could perhaps be carried out by a trusted middle man without such fragile immortality...
"You. My room. 10:30 tonight. You. 10:45... And bring a friend."? Well that's another story...
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#153 - 2014-02-12 18:27:03 UTC
Aver Bheskagor wrote:
I have been a EVE player for about 4 years now, on a new account. I was here before, during, and after the Incarna expansion. I knew it was supposed to bring walking around outside of your pod with your avatar, which it did. But it was also supposed to bring multiplayer experience to inside the stations (bars, corporate offices, agent offices, etc.). What happened to all of that stuff? Is it still in development? Or a lost cause?


we should all shoot a statue, cry and pretend to quit, then we sure get what we want...

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
45thtiger 0109
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#154 - 2014-02-12 22:49:47 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Aver Bheskagor wrote:
I have been a EVE player for about 4 years now, on a new account. I was here before, during, and after the Incarna expansion. I knew it was supposed to bring walking around outside of your pod with your avatar, which it did. But it was also supposed to bring multiplayer experience to inside the stations (bars, corporate offices, agent offices, etc.). What happened to all of that stuff? Is it still in development? Or a lost cause?



The use of resources in incarna enraged playerbase that left in mass. CCP apologysed deeply on their knees to not go bankrupt and promissed they would focus on SPACE not in walking in stations and that means its basically dead for foreseable future.



Thanks for the clarification on WIS.

**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
ISD Cura Ursus
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#155 - 2014-04-20 18:02:27 UTC
1 post deleted for trolling..

ISD Cura Ursus

Lieutenant Commander

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#156 - 2014-04-20 18:04:37 UTC
ISD Cura Ursus wrote:
1 post deleted for trolling..


Should have been the first post.

Necro-moderation?



☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#157 - 2014-05-07 06:51:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Ray Kyonhe
Kuronaga wrote:


I don't give two damns about spaceships and I've been playing since 2005. I just like ganking people and making it hurt in an open world. Eve provides excellent opportunities for griefing. If it provided some additional medium for that, it would be very welcomed. If it provided ways to kick back when I need a break, that too would be welcomed.

Spaceships? Seriously, who cares.

Willingly limiting the scope of what you can do within a game is just about the single dumbest thing a gamer can wish for.

I haven't got enough words to describe how I'm supporting this point. At the end, the spaceships and space parts itself in EVE are so far from what could be called authentic expirience that I don't even understand why so many EVE players attach so much significance to them. Basically, there are nothing more than decorations and shiny models, this is a world of static celestials, ubiquitous local chat which substitutes intricate scanning and sensor equipment any credible space explorer should be relying on, and ships which have an upper speed limits and can overheat its systems and cool down them in minutes despite the fact you just can't cool down anything in space aside from through radiation of some sort (very slow) or jettisoning some overheated parts or barrels of coolant. In this world you can shoot through asteroids and your fellow comrades with projectiles while aren't dealing any damage to them and still hitting your target. One could easly swap the space with sea, planets with islands and gates with futuristic portals - nothing change, at all. It would become even more logical, because, you know, ships can use ballistic trajectory for their main calibers so they really can shoot from behind opaque obstacles (and you can't do this such well in space). I can't see how a bunch of minigames and alternative social activities can ruin something here.
CCP has to give Incarna another chance.

Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link
Evelyn Meiyi
Corvidae Trading and Holding
#158 - 2014-05-07 07:11:14 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
[quote=Aver Bheskagor]
If I recall correctly most of the team working on WIS were laid off or reassigned to other projects. The customers spoke, CCP listened. Hilmar suddenly realized how easy it could be to lose his baby. I imagine he's feeling even less comfortable now with Star Citizen taking in 30+ million without even launching or providing a beta. CCP is going to try very very hard to retain its players now, and "Walking in stations" is not it.


It was said at fanfest that CCP still has their eye on WiS content; they haven't made any current plans, but they also haven't written it off.

Most of the team were laid off, but it's hard to say whether Incarna was any major part of the layoffs. The "Greed is Good" memo was acknowledged by Hilmar himself to have been a bad move, and he also admitted that he was (and CCP were) was suffering from a combination of 'drunk with success' and 'too many irons in the fire'.

Walking in Stations is very important to retaining the playerbase -- I've said before that Star Citizen is likely to leave EVE in the dust (no pun intended) simply because it does what EVE doesn't.

For a game to compete in what I know to be an extremely vicious marketplace, it must evolve. Whether you see WiS as a waste of money, or you want CCP to focus on your 'pet project' feature instead, EVE must evolve.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#159 - 2014-05-07 07:32:20 UTC
Evelyn Meiyi wrote:
For a game to compete in what I know to be an extremely vicious marketplace, it must evolve. Whether you see WiS as a waste of money, or you want CCP to focus on your 'pet project' feature instead, EVE must evolve.

...and it should do so fast. Judging from Fanfest, they realized that too... let's just hope it was soon enough, since 2014 will be the last year without any real copetition for EVE. Nobody can say what Elite Dangerous (ETA 2014/15) and Star Citizen (ETA 2015/16) will do to the target market.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#160 - 2014-05-07 07:40:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Aver Bheskagor wrote:
I have been a EVE player for about 4 years now, on a new account. I was here before, during, and after the Incarna expansion. I knew it was supposed to bring walking around outside of your pod with your avatar, which it did. But it was also supposed to bring...
misery.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12