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Remote Rep Neut Ships - CCP Please Comment
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Lady Ce'Nedra
88 Club
#1 - 2011-11-25 22:34:35 UTC
Hello

Now before i am shouted down allow me to explain

When u web/warp scram/fire on a non WT in empire you are aggressed and destroyed instantly. Now, this is fair as empire is supposed to be semi secure space. Now we all know this does not stop alpha runs. That is fine, such is the life of empire.

Now i do take exception to when you run a pvp corp that you are war decced by a *merc* corp who then use 5 neutral Domi's as RR. Now there is no way to combat that many domi's in a fleet fight with limited numbers.

Now flagging them is not enough as that many or even as few as 2 can keep each other alive, even with 15 people shooting one of them due to there attributes.

I would like to see implemented that you CANNOT RR anyone not in your corp or alliance. That RR neutral targets should count as a criminal act. My reasoning is that CCP say that web/scram on a neutral is attacking a pilot or interfering with said pilot, surely RR should fall under the same catergory?

Within corps and alliances doing it for the edge on a fight i have no issue what so ever. I do however take issue with NEUTRAL accounts helping to win fights there *main's* corps have war decced and giving them the unfair advanateg is they have the ISK/IRL cash to run multiple accounts.

Consider this logically as i belive, and have thought about this long and hard before posting here, that RR on non corp/alliance members should be concorded instantly.

If you have a valid reason why not other than *i use this mechanic myself*. Id love to hear it
Zi'Boo
Zi'Corp
#2 - 2011-11-26 01:29:49 UTC
So with this little change you have effectively killed all non-corp incursion fleets.

Also how is fighting against 5-10 RR neutral domis different than fighting against those same domis if they were in the corp that war decced you?

The only thing I can see different is that you don't know what you engage (although in empire wars you can expect neutral scouts or RR anyway) and the other difference would be that you cannot shoot them before they start repairing your targets.

I agree that it's annoying, but the only difference it makes is that you start (or participate in) fights that would not happen if you knew that your opponents have more people than the ones showing in local.

And no, I don't use neutral alts for RR in pvp, but I've used them in pve sometimes.
Goose99
#3 - 2011-11-26 01:35:44 UTC
Lady Ce'Nedra wrote:
RR whineOops


Notice how this is a RR whine, not neut RR whine, as it no longer exist. Yes, RR exist, working as intended.Cool
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2011-11-26 05:49:49 UTC
Lady Ce'Nedra wrote:
When u web/warp scram/fire on a non WT in empire you are aggressed and destroyed instantly. Now, this is fair as empire is supposed to be semi secure space.


Underlined the problem. High-sec is not supposed to be "semi-secure." It is supposed to provide greater risks and penalties for combat.

Lady Ce'Nedra wrote:
Now i do take exception to when you run a pvp corp that you are war decced by a *merc* corp who then use 5 neutral Domi's as RR. Now there is no way to combat that many domi's in a fleet fight with limited numbers.


Fit your gang with energy neutralizers and (as much as I hate to recommend it) have an ECM ship or two. If you have some spare friends and/or nubbins in your group, have them run in some DPS frigatess to kill the drones (leaving the Domi's "toothless")


Overall... as detestable as neutral RR is... it's a valid tactic. They rep your enemy, the remote repper becomes fair game to you and your friends and maintains that aggro for a good 15 minutes.

I will say this though, a change DOES need to happen with RR in general. What I'd like to see is that RRing a person counts as combat aggro... leaving the RR ship unable to immediately dock/gatejump.

How did you Veterans start?
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#5 - 2011-11-26 05:58:23 UTC
RR dominixes aren't even particularly effective RR, you can neut them out pretty trivially.
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#6 - 2011-11-26 09:50:16 UTC
You want a little cheese to go with all of that whine?

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
Lady Ce'Nedra
88 Club
#7 - 2011-11-27 00:30:57 UTC
Jack Carrigan wrote:
You want a little cheese to go with all of that whine?


So you think its fair that people should be able to declare war on corps and then use NEUTRAL ALTS to win that war ?

Seem's to me that you are one such pilot

RR should be concorded, it is a exploit of game mechanics and should be dealt with as such.

Using alts to win a war is wrong.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-11-27 00:57:58 UTC
No remote mods allowed if the person your trying to use them on has player aggression. This will stop the neutral rr and such shenanigans we see now while preserving high sec incursions and other non-war dec related things like repairing your friend who is taking damage while you both take on that uber hard level 2 mission together. If your both in the same corp/alliance, this of course would not apply.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-11-27 03:13:33 UTC
How about RR of people involved in wars/with aggro is concordable (warning first) if that person is not in your corp?
Ie one must stay strictly neutral.

Or, since normally aggro transfers to the RRer in normal non war combat

Have a state of war transfer to the RRer's corp? That corp is automatically added to the war dec if they RR (though this could be exploited in other ways I presume)
Or perhaps that specific individual is now a valid target *for the duration of the war*?
Mephice
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-11-27 04:32:25 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
How about RR of people involved in wars/with aggro is concordable (warning first) if that person is not in your corp?
Ie one must stay strictly neutral.

Or, since normally aggro transfers to the RRer in normal non war combat

Have a state of war transfer to the RRer's corp? That corp is automatically added to the war dec if they RR (though this could be exploited in other ways I presume)
Or perhaps that specific individual is now a valid target *for the duration of the war*?



kudos, im with you on that.
Goose99
#11 - 2011-11-27 04:38:22 UTC
Mephice wrote:
Verity Sovereign wrote:
How about RR of people involved in wars/with aggro is concordable (warning first) if that person is not in your corp?
Ie one must stay strictly neutral.

Or, since normally aggro transfers to the RRer in normal non war combat

Have a state of war transfer to the RRer's corp? That corp is automatically added to the war dec if they RR (though this could be exploited in other ways I presume)
Or perhaps that specific individual is now a valid target *for the duration of the war*?



kudos, im with you on that.


I shall permadec your alliance with my one man corp that never undocks in order to prevent you from using rr - running incursions, plex, or any other group activities.

No. You can shoot and neut them, same whether they're in the same corp or not. Your issue is with rr, which is working as intended, not neutral rr, which has been fixed and no longer exist.

If you fail at wardec, go to lowsec and gank cyno alts.Lol
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-11-27 05:15:08 UTC
Hmm, that is a valid point about nuisance wardecs.

How's about once you are actually attacked by someone with a war dec against you, RR against you is no longer allowed by Concord for the next 15 minutes?

Perhaps the same thing should be implemented for those that have kill rights against you.

It wouldn't interfere with RR as part of high sec PvE, until you are engaged in Concord sanctioned PvP.