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Very serious danger for all people who like to do missions in faction ships

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Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#281 - 2014-02-09 05:56:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Goldiiee wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
Anize; You lobby for your group, I will lobby for mine. But don't kid yourself with 'Facts' you haven't produced any Evidence or Facts, you have presented conjecture and hearsay but nothing that even comes close to a valid proof.


Haha, so A CCP Dev blog with CCP generated graphs are heresy?

Man, I know people don't think much of the dev blogs but that's a bit harsh don't you think?

Also like i said, I run missions (Ran some today in fact) and I'd rather you not lobby for me.

Perhaps you don't get correlative data. Yes pretty pictures with details on what was destroyed where. Make a Venn diagram one sphere has everything destroyed in EVE, another sphere has everything destroyed by ganks, both spheres fall within each other there is no differential to identify the positive or negative impact of letting the Turret Bankers continue flaunting the concept of High Sec.

Your evidence is not in question, it's relevance is.

If that's too difficult to understand, All blurbs are blue, Some wonks are blue, All wonks are blurbs = False

And it's hearsay, not heresy, one is information that may or may not be true and the other is an unorthodox religious opinion.

Actually both work in this case (yey auto correct!). Hearsay doesn't apply to CCP devblogs either, or does it?

Also, how does it work where you can make conjecture (all the missionrunners are going to leave the game!) from NO DATA WHATSOEVER while if I use OFFICIAL DATA to show that there isn't an increase in HS destruction it's called hearsay.

wat Shocked

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#282 - 2014-02-09 07:20:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
Anize Oramara wrote:

Actually both work in this case (yey auto correct!). Hearsay doesn't apply to CCP devblogs either, or does it?

Also, how does it work where you can make conjecture (all the missionrunners are going to leave the game!) from NO DATA WHATSOEVER while if I use OFFICIAL DATA to show that there isn't an increase in HS destruction it's called hearsay.

wat Shocked

You keep missing the point, I have facts and figures that show me starbucks is selling more coffee than ever, you then use those facts to state starbucks is using more sugar. Though it is possible it is not factual therefore conjecture and hearsay. If you showed us a chart that had the suicide ganks in high sec last year vs. this year and the total drop/destroyed values then you would have empirical evidence or facts to base your opinion on.

So once again, the gank-a-thon has been going on in one form or another for years, the improvement of how to kill something has been going on for years, the profits from ganking has been increasing for years, the protection from ganking for mission runners has not been improved in years, but at least the miners are safer now.

Mission runners got the bounty nerf, loot nerf, drone ore nerf, agent standings nerf, ship nerf, LP nerf and yet they still haven't quit doing missions, I, like most of them, probably figure at some point here wont be a nul buff, pvp buff, interesting yet useless industry buff, or what have you at the top of the list and there will be a PVE buff directed at the oldest PVE in EVE, Missions.

I have had 7 noob corpies leave in the last 8 months after a harsh gank, and I have talked at least twice that number into staying and changing the way they play to prevent losses like this. I would like to have better player retention in my corp/alliance, but if the best answer they get is HTFU, Don't be stupid, You had it coming and other comments like yours then I can see why they leave.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#283 - 2014-02-09 07:51:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Goldiiee wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:

Actually both work in this case (yey auto correct!). Hearsay doesn't apply to CCP devblogs either, or does it?

Also, how does it work where you can make conjecture (all the missionrunners are going to leave the game!) from NO DATA WHATSOEVER while if I use OFFICIAL DATA to show that there isn't an increase in HS destruction it's called hearsay.

wat Shocked

You keep missing the point, I have facts and figures that show me starbucks is selling more coffee than ever, you then use those facts to state starbucks is using more sugar. Though it is possible it is not factual therefore conjecture and hearsay. If you showed us a chart that had the suicide ganks in high sec last year vs. this year and the total drop/destroyed values then you would have empirical evidence or facts to base your opinion on.

So once again, the gank-a-thon has been going on in one form or another for years, the improvement of how to kill something has been going on for years, the profits from ganking has been increasing for years, the protection from ganking for mission runners has not been improved in years, but at least the miners are safer now.

Mission runners got the bounty nerf, lot nerf, drone ore nerf, agent standings nerf, ship nerf, LP nerf and yet they still haven't quit doing missions, I, like most of them, probably figure at some point here wont be a nul buff, pvp buff, interesting yet useless industry buff, or what have you at the top of the list and there will be a PVE buff directed at the oldest PVE in EVE, Missions.

I have had 7 noob corpies leave in the last 8 months after a harsh gank, and I have talked at least twice that number into staying and changing the way they play to prevent losses like this. I would like to have better player retention in my corp/alliance, but if the best answer they get is HTFU, Don't be stupid, You had it coming and other comments like yours then I can see why they leave.


I've taken the liberty of bolding everything that's either outright lies or wild conjecture or even half truths (not giving the full facts).

I've made dozens of kind and helpful posts when people post they have been ganked. What you are saying there at the end especially is proof that your memory retention is struggling a bit. I've said 3 times already that mission runners I am willing to help any day of the week, but if you ignore the advice given and then come crying about how unfair it is, well whatever scorn the eve community throws at you is to be expected.

Besides the only issue I really have is with rabble rousing, whining and people fundamentally trying to change the game I quite enjoy. This is my right as a player in this game to oppose any changes that would make me leave the game.

The change you are proposing (and thats what all this is about) is not justified by any information you have been able to supply anywhere. It will do harm to the very nature of what eve is and what makes eve different from other hand holding MMOs. While I have never actually said HTFU to anyone I have told many people to smarten up and educate themselves. It's what I do and I expect nothing more than what I have done. I am sorry if that is above the abilities of other mission runners.

So I had a bit of a look through F&I looking for this thread you talked about. I think I foudn the thread but I found something far, FAR more interesting. You should be familiar with these posts

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4202480#post4202480

and this one especially

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4204279#post4204279

Your suggestion is nothing less than asking CCP to go back on one of their CORE Design Principles for this game. These posts makes me confident that I do not have to worry about you or this particular suggestion.

But I do find your struggles entertaining. Do continue.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#284 - 2014-02-09 08:44:11 UTC
Leave then, I can not begin to understand why it is ok to have people rage quit over a misleading representation of high sec, but it's not ok to have people leave over a change in profitability of a manipulation of the rules.

Your obviously enraged by a suggestion, as we see everyone hit the forum and rage every time there is a suggestion made even if it is made by Fozzie himself, I would suggest finding a statue and shoot it for awhile. Perhaps it will help, it's worked in the past.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Evilishah
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#285 - 2014-02-09 17:36:47 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Leave then, I can not begin to understand why it is ok to have people rage quit over a misleading representation of high sec, but it's not ok to have people leave over a change in profitability of a manipulation of the rules.


Because you can't make every one happy?

Because people aren't leaving. EVE has been getting increasingly more popular.

Because high sec ganks have already been nerfed.

Because high sec ganks make up a tiny fraction of pvp.

You mentioned you provided facts and figures. What were they out of curiosity?
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#286 - 2014-02-09 21:19:05 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
As an active member of this community for almost 6 years as well as being a professional PvE player I must say I definitely agree with Goldiiee.

Anize Oramara and Evilishah on the other hand have been trolling this thread quite extensively, constantly barking the same old rhetoric.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Evilishah
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#287 - 2014-02-09 22:59:25 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
As an active member of this community for almost 6 years as well as being a professional PvE player I must say I definitely agree with Goldiiee.

Anize Oramara and Evilishah on the other hand have been trolling this thread quite extensively, constantly barking the same old rhetoric.


DMC


See also: Irony
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#288 - 2014-02-09 23:47:57 UTC
Evilishah wrote:

Because you can't make every one happy?

So making the few happy is a better solution?

Evilishah wrote:
Because people aren't leaving. EVE has been getting increasingly more popular.

Sure, the ones that I see leave must have been faking it.

Evilishah wrote:
Because high sec ganks have already been nerfed.

You mean CCP made a change to remove some of the ease of ganking? Isn't that a bit contradictory.

Evilishah wrote:
Because high sec ganks make up a tiny fraction of pvp.

A Gank is not PVP. It is overpowering the game mechanics to allow for an exception, not really a fair fight. Because if it was a fair fight they wouldn't do it.

Evilishah wrote:
You mentioned you provided facts and figures. What were they out of curiosity?

No I didn't mention I have facts and figures. I am stating everything from 'In my opinion' and 'From my point of view'. Sorry if that confused you.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#289 - 2014-02-09 23:53:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
well to fund 10 man tornado gang you need like 600 mil for hulls and some change for fits if you dont produce your self.

so basically just for laugh and giggles gank target need to be from 0 -600 mil isk . 1.2isk bill to cover next gank.

That numbers are not uncommon,further more gankers are using neutral alt/s to prevent bigger ships to warp out and doing so in perfect safety from concord rendering target unable to warp as long as they wish and prep for gank,

even after 1st gank if it happened to fail they will harass target with bumping for how ever long in perfect safety until 2nd gank wave is formed.i saw this and is just pathetic to watch tbh.

my opinion on the matter is simple

to be able to pull that mods from dangerous space one need to grow a spine and pack some baalz to do it but any spineless scrub can do simple math and use alt to be perfectly safe and gank and harass to pull money other ppl earned.

in fact it is safer for them to do it then for target to travel thru hi sec space.and i find this king of gameplay just pathetic but as CCP is endorsing it i can only hope that at some point of time it is sanctioned to some extent.

Concord taking loot sound good to me you can still do it for revenge / whatever but if you want isk grow a spine and go in dangerous space to do it or go and die from boredom in hi sec PVE and make it there.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#290 - 2014-02-10 00:46:42 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:


So once again, the gank-a-thon has been going on in one form or another for years, the improvement of how to kill something has been going on for years, the profits from ganking has been increasing for years, the protection from ganking for mission runners has not been improved in years, but at least the miners are safer now.



What rubbish.

CCP made marauders more competitive mission runners vs pirate ships, and as a result, you are now all able to effectively fly ships with more than 1200m3 cargo, that can carry a mobile depot, a set of ehp refit modules and still have enough cargo space for ammo and a full set of cap charges to burn through missions using an MWD.

Not only that, unlike the pirate ships, if you get caught at a gate after refitting, you can have > 200k ehp with bastion up, without having to sacrifice your rigs to EHP.

Most end-pockets are amenable to dropping a depot before leaving, so that alone should reduce your gate vulnerability by half without costing you any actual time.

You can make other decisions, like investing a warp to a permanently placed depot in the system to begin with or fighting the first 60 seconds of the next mission buffer fit (which is probably going to cost you a whole 20 seconds per mission) to refit mission specific, and then if you are not in a rattlesnake or a dominix, there is no pressing need (sentry drones) for you to be found at the beacon by people scanning down the encounter, and a rattlesnake is always painful to gank, should always now be sitting on a depot and a dominix is usually worthless to gank, pointless to scan down and its as likely as not to be 100km away from the beacon.

ie a tiny bit of personal discipline and you personally can be largely invulnerable to ganking.

---

What I find hilarious about all this, is that not only do I have to escape all unfavourable encounters here to avoid losing PVE boats, I have to turn them around and make them favourable encounters in order to avoid content loss, where as you can just abandon a scanned down mission space and carry on regardless.

Can you imagine what would happen to my space if I just let any old gypsy take content from me, and not leverage a ready supply of insured space ships to make it painfully uneconomic for them to try take ?

I'd never get any content, they'd just keep coming back to take it off me.


--

TL;DR highsec content is amenable to throwing away if it becomes dangerous, marauders are economic gankproof if the pilot decides they want to be economic gankproof. CCP gave you awesome tools for being gankproof.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#291 - 2014-02-10 00:55:03 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
well to fund 10 man tornado gang you need like 600 mil for hulls and some change for fits if you dont produce your self.

so basically just for laugh and giggles gank target need to be from 0 -600 mil isk . 1.2isk bill to cover next gank.

That numbers are not uncommon,further more gankers are using neutral alt/s to prevent bigger ships to warp out and doing so in perfect safety from concord rendering target unable to warp as long as they wish and prep for gank,

even after 1st gank if it happened to fail they will harass target with bumping for how ever long in perfect safety until 2nd gank wave is formed.i saw this and is just pathetic to watch tbh.

my opinion on the matter is simple

to be able to pull that mods from dangerous space one need to grow a spine and pack some baalz to do it but any spineless scrub can do simple math and use alt to be perfectly safe and gank and harass to pull money other ppl earned.

in fact it is safer for them to do it then for target to travel thru hi sec space.and i find this king of gameplay just pathetic but as CCP is endorsing it i can only hope that at some point of time it is sanctioned to some extent.

Concord taking loot sound good to me you can still do it for revenge / whatever but if you want isk grow a spine and go in dangerous space to do it or go and die from boredom in hi sec PVE and make it there.


That's incorrect, by quite a large margin in fact.

Lets start with your figure of 0-600m. the correct way would be a MINIMUM of 600m but even THAT is incorrect. with the 50% drop rate (give or take) the minimum a pirate group will look at is 1.2bill and that's JUST covering his ship costs. Contrary to the misinformation spread around Pirates do this for the booty, the profit and not getting paid for your effort kinda sucks.

Now say they are looking for a modest income of around 60m/h, around what a decent HS lv4 mission runner would get. That's another 600(1.2b) on top of the minimum of 1.2bill. They would need to gank a 2.4bill freighter once every hour to get that kind of income. So if you have less than 1.2bill in your freighter you are nearly guaranteed to never get ganked. Red frog doesn't accept anything with more than 1bill in collateral for example.

Interesting thing is they cant just gank two 1.2bill freighters because then they'd STILL have 0 isk and some negative sec status that they have to deal with. They also run the RISK of none of the good stuff dropping meaning they'd actually be OUT isk.

See you yokels are going at this the wrong way. It's not broken mechanics or exploits that makes this possible, it's YOU, the player that make all of this possible. That's the beauty of a sandbox type of gameplay and what makes Eve unique. You in the 6 bill rattlesnake taking zero precautions, you in the 20bill freighter hauling on autopilot (or without webs), you with the 50bill researched BPOs in an undefended POS.

You all make this possible.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#292 - 2014-02-10 01:26:01 UTC
I think you misunderstood my post, let me clarify.
There have been an addition of 4 new Destroyers, and 4 new Battle Cruisers, making it easier to put a flying turret with no tank on a gank fleet
.
There has been
a nerf to projectile range
a nerf to drone range
a nerf to lasers
a buff to hybrids (don't ask, I don't know why)
a nerf to Shield invuls (Loss of passive resists)
a nerf to Bounties,
a nerf to loot drops,
a nerf to LP payout
a nerf to ore drops.
I probably missed some

And yes we got Mauraders, after 90 days of training you too can have a mediocre boat that does missions. 'But wait there's more. Order now and you get a free set of steak knives'

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Evilishah
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#293 - 2014-02-10 01:28:28 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:

So making the few happy is a better solution?


No... your solution would be "making the few" happy. At the very least you need to show some types of facts or figures. The underlying assumption is that the population of 50kish players play EVE because they like it. This may be wrong. I await your numbers.

Quote:

Sure, the ones that I see leave must have been faking it.


Anecdote. You very well might know people that are leaving the game because they don't like high sec ganks. Of course, the game itself is growing. So, and this unfortunately does happen, maybe EVE isn't the type of game your friends like to play. That's fine of course, though it hardly represents a trend.

Quote:

You mean CCP made a change to remove some of the ease of ganking? Isn't that a bit contradictory.


No, I mean CCP made it more difficult (and less profitable) to successfully pull of a gank. How is that contradictory?

Quote:

A Gank is not PVP. It is overpowering the game mechanics to allow for an exception, not really a fair fight. Because if it was a fair fight they wouldn't do it.


Well, most pvp in this game isn't a "fair fight". Even 1v1, your victory is about half determined from fit alone. Couple that with large fleets generally having an advantage vs small fleets, EVE is hardly fair. Which is just how we like it. The rest of your post is merely a semantic argument. Call it what you want. You know what I meant.

Quote:
No I didn't mention I have facts and figures. I am stating everything from 'In my opinion' and 'From my point of view'. Sorry if that confused you.


It did confuse me. I would have thought you to be more level-headed than to make giant, sweeping changes that could affect every single player in EVE based on a handful of anecdotal observations. My fault.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#294 - 2014-02-10 01:47:22 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
I think you misunderstood my post, let me clarify.
There have been an addition of 4 new Destroyers, and 4 new Battle Cruisers, making it easier to put a flying turret with no tank on a gank fleet
.
There has been
a nerf to projectile range
a nerf to drone range
a nerf to lasers
a buff to hybrids (don't ask, I don't know why)
a nerf to Shield invuls (Loss of passive resists)
a nerf to Bounties,
a nerf to loot drops,
a nerf to LP payout
a nerf to ore drops.
I probably missed some

And yes we got Mauraders, after 90 days of training you too can have a mediocre boat that does missions. 'But wait there's more. Order now and you get a free set of steak knives'


you missed.

incursions.
drone damage amps
removal of insurance for concorded ship
barge hp rebuff
buff to LP pools by adding mindlinks to LP
buff to LP pools by adding pirate quality faction frigates, cruisers and now battleships.
mobile depots.
bastion
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#295 - 2014-02-10 01:57:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
You three are obviously Pro Gank and leaving high sec more vulnerable in some aspects than low sec , I am Pro Security making High sec a place that new recruits can make isk while they pad their accounts and get the courage to go risk it in Low/Nu sec. Nothing you said has change my mind and it's clear nothing I say will change your mind. So agree to disagree rather than deal with the inane comments arguing about perceptions rather than factual mechanics.

If you are flying a ship in high sec and someone wants to take your stuff, they will take it. Concord should be the only force in high sec that can take your stuff. The rest is just treating the residents of high sec like idiots and hopping they don't catch on, or brow beat them into believing that's all they deserve for their money.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#296 - 2014-02-10 02:09:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
@ Anize

Nope what makes it all possible is that it is easy and profitable to do by using relic game mechanic to prevent unarmed ships of warping in one or blobing pve fitted ships in other case.

Pvp against unarmed or Pve fitted ship in blob fashion because contrary to what ppl think concord is there to assure consequence for aggression not anybody safety per se,competently ignoring alts that are crucial for a gank it self from scouting scanning harassing looting target.

Now for my personal opinion on the matter is i know douchebaggery when i see one.

2 bil targets are plenty nowadays and pulling a trigger isn't hard nor work it is easy money and only way out is to fly mediocre to garbage fits or to haul trit for living according to some ppl.

Also thanks for a webbing freighter reference i lol'd sweetly to that one.

Maybe it would be ok for tutorial agents to mention or explain that concord isn't rly gonna do anything for them and advise them as early in game that their equipment or goods can make em kill targets and that it is common daily occurrence in eve.

When -10 folks can be in high sec and undock in 37 isk expensive trashers warp to gate and blap noob hauler for profit and tears maybe it would be wise for newer players to know that to not go emo when it do happens.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Evilishah
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#297 - 2014-02-10 02:49:39 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
You three are obviously Pro Gank and leaving high sec more vulnerable in some aspects than low sec , I am Pro Security making High sec a place that new recruits can make isk while they pad their accounts and get the courage to go risk it in Low/Nu sec. Nothing you said has change my mind and it's clear nothing I say will change your mind. So agree to disagree rather than deal with the inane comments arguing about perceptions rather than factual mechanics.

If you are flying a ship in high sec and someone wants to take your stuff, they will take it. Concord should be the only force in high sec that can take your stuff. The rest is just treating the residents of high sec like idiots and hopping they don't catch on, or brow beat them into believing that's all they deserve for their money.


High sec is the place that new recruits can make isk, pad their accounts, and get the courage to go risk it in Low/Nu sec.

The amount of people getting popped in their Rupture or Drake because they had the audacity to run level 2's and 3's is virtually nil. The odds of getting popped in a level 4 is almost nil. It really isn't until you undock in a ship holding billions of isk worth of droppables that you are risking a suicide gank.

Even in that case (which makes up a fairly small segment of the population) a gank is a relatively small risk so long as you take precautions.

And let's face it, once you fit a ship worth billions of isk, you are likely not "new" anymore.

But that's fine, agree to disagree. You didn't provide anything to argue against anyway. We are just repeating ourselves.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#298 - 2014-02-10 02:56:35 UTC
Evilishah wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
You three are obviously Pro Gank and leaving high sec more vulnerable in some aspects than low sec , I am Pro Security making High sec a place that new recruits can make isk while they pad their accounts and get the courage to go risk it in Low/Nu sec. Nothing you said has change my mind and it's clear nothing I say will change your mind. So agree to disagree rather than deal with the inane comments arguing about perceptions rather than factual mechanics.

If you are flying a ship in high sec and someone wants to take your stuff, they will take it. Concord should be the only force in high sec that can take your stuff. The rest is just treating the residents of high sec like idiots and hopping they don't catch on, or brow beat them into believing that's all they deserve for their money.


High sec is the place that new recruits can make isk, pad their accounts, and get the courage to go risk it in Low/Nu sec.

The amount of people getting popped in their Rupture or Drake because they had the audacity to run level 2's and 3's is virtually nil. The odds of getting popped in a level 4 is almost nil. It really isn't until you undock in a ship holding billions of isk worth of droppables that you are risking a suicide gank.

Even in that case (which makes up a fairly small segment of the population) a gank is a relatively small risk so long as you take precautions.

And let's face it, once you fit a ship worth billions of isk, you are likely not "new" anymore.

But that's fine, agree to disagree. You didn't provide anything to argue against anyway. We are just repeating ourselves.

Yes you do that a lot, and yet you still try to add one more inconsequential point in as a last word.

If you want to take someone's stuff War Dec them, ask for a Duel, lure them into low sec, Awox, corp/alliance espionage but I guess were those not enough. Or is it that those options take time, planning, patience and are against the thought process of a have it all, have it now mentality.

Don't bother answering, anyone reading this already knows and I for one am tired of diversion tactics and trolls.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#299 - 2014-02-10 03:04:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Goldiiee wrote:
You three are obviously Pro Gank and leaving high sec more vulnerable in some aspects than low sec , I am Pro Security making High sec a place that new recruits can make isk while they pad their accounts and get the courage to go risk it in Low/Nu sec. Nothing you said has change my mind and it's clear nothing I say will change your mind. So agree to disagree rather than deal with the inane comments arguing about perceptions rather than factual mechanics.



Except that whenever we resort to showing you some of the survival mechanics, you resort to avoiding debating or learning the survival mechanics, and start accusing people of being pro-something or other, which is a very basic debate fallacy and undermines whatever point you were trying to make.

I lost a covops outside a station in lowsec one time, despite having an undock insta, and simply by being reasonable about a following discussion, no lessor an august personage than Ruby Porto, explained to me a few finer points about undocking, and making undocking instas which makes it very hard for people to repeat that kill on me.

Whether you personally want to live out the rest of your EVE existence running L4s (for what reason I cannot possibly imagine), its terrible for people who are not set in that way, to have the game dumbed down to the point where it is not advantageous for them to learn how to stay alive.

Can't say how refreshing it was to post (in a different thread) to someone following much in my career footsteps (by moving onto highsec islands as the next phase of his probing career), and dealing with various survival mechanics and options, compared to the blanket stonewall "I will not do anything to stay safe", which permeates the mission runner and highsec miner ethos.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#300 - 2014-02-10 03:40:58 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
You three are obviously Pro Gank and leaving high sec more vulnerable in some aspects than low sec , I am Pro Security making High sec a place that new recruits can make isk while they pad their accounts and get the courage to go risk it in Low/Nu sec. Nothing you said has change my mind and it's clear nothing I say will change your mind. So agree to disagree rather than deal with the inane comments arguing about perceptions rather than factual mechanics.



Except that whenever we resort to showing you some of the survival mechanics, you resort to avoiding debating or learning the survival mechanics, and start accusing people of being pro-something or other, which is a very basic debate fallacy and undermines whatever point you were trying to make.

I lost a covops outside a station in lowsec one time, despite having an undock insta, and simply by being reasonable about a following discussion, no lessor an august personage than Ruby Porto, explained to me a few finer points about undocking, and making undocking instas which makes it very hard for people to repeat that kill on me.

Whether you personally want to live out the rest of your EVE existence running L4s (for what reason I cannot possibly imagine), its terrible for people who are not set in that way, to have the game dumbed down to the point where it is not advantageous for them to learn how to stay alive.

Can't say how refreshing it was to post (in a different thread) to someone following much in my career footsteps (by moving onto highsec islands as the next phase of his probing career), and dealing with various survival mechanics and options, compared to the blanket stonewall "I will not do anything to stay safe", which permeates the mission runner and highsec miner ethos.

What does any of that have to do with the risk free harvesting of other players assets in 'High Sec'. Nothing at all.

You don't like someone getting accustomed to the game before they risk everything in the game? You want the new guys to log in and give away stuff till they get jaundiced like yourself and start taking from the 'newer' new guys? I personally don't have a problem with someone mining rocks in peace all day, or running missions ad infinitum, it doesn't effect me and it doesn't effect you...

..... I give up, your right enjoy the game the way it is, don't change a damn thing. Keep up the good work and limited view of possibilities, it works for most of the real world so it should be no different here. 'A Salam a Lakum

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.