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What happened to the stuff Incarna was supposed to bring?

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Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#101 - 2014-02-09 18:15:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Jenn aSide wrote:
EVE has been a spaceship only game for 10 years


I stopped reading their Jenn. Eve isn't just a spaceship game. When you managed to get something wrong so soon in your post I couldn't help but feel the rest wasn't worth reading.

Edit: I went back and read it. I agree with the over all affect of the post if not it's contents. Arguing that Eve is going to die is generally a terrible argument so I concede there. But the point above still stands, Eve isn't just a spaceship game. Never has been, never will be.

Jenn aSide wrote:

I gave them money because I remember the joy of Killing Kilrathi Carriers with nothing more than my fighter and my npc wingmen on my Super Nintendo 2 decades ago lol.


I have to admit, I gave them some money as well. Not that it will ever be able to replace Eve. If Eve ever dies, it will be CCP's fault, not another game.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Billy McCandless
Zacharia Explorations Group
#102 - 2014-02-09 18:19:49 UTC
Vespiidius wrote:
a lovecraftian digital backwater


i dreem of dis day

"Thread locked for being deemed a total loss." - ISD Ezwal
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#103 - 2014-02-09 18:37:19 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
But the point above still stands, Eve isn't just a spaceship game. Never has been, never will be.


If you remove the spaceships from EVE (and change nothing else) what are you left with? What could you do in EVE that would have any meaning?

EVERYTHING revovles around space ships. The market, the community, the game play, ever concievable interaction has spaceships at it's core. you can't pilot a Mech or a tank or an (underwater) submarine or a race car. If you want to be EVE Infantry you have to buy a PS3 lol.

Yes, it's just about space ships, and it will be until CCP lets me pilot my MTAC into a Sansha Star base's docking ring and wreck shop, which is the only walking in a station I really want to do.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#104 - 2014-02-09 18:54:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Jenn aSide wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
But the point above still stands, Eve isn't just a spaceship game. Never has been, never will be.


If you remove the spaceships from EVE (and change nothing else) what are you left with? What could you do in EVE that would have any meaning?

EVERYTHING revovles around space ships. The market, the community, the game play, ever concievable interaction has spaceships at it's core. you can't pilot a Mech or a tank or an (underwater) submarine or a race car. If you want to be EVE Infantry you have to buy a PS3 lol.

Yes, it's just about space ships, and it will be until CCP lets me pilot my MTAC into a Sansha Star base's docking ring and wreck shop, which is the only walking in a station I really want to do.



You could say the same about any MMO and their Avatars. You wouldn't describe Guild Wars 2 as a 'people only' game. Spaceships are the just the medium with which we achieve things, and do the things Eve is really about. Building empires, doing business, interacting with other people. Wouldn't matter whether we did those things as a human Avatar, or a spaceship. The game is still about what we do. Heists, business deals, assassinations, setting and collecting bounties, extortion and more.

I hold people to ransom. That's what I do in game. I thrive on and enjoy it. What I use as the medium of my extortion makes no difference to me.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#105 - 2014-02-09 19:10:21 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
But the point above still stands, Eve isn't just a spaceship game. Never has been, never will be.


If you remove the spaceships from EVE (and change nothing else) what are you left with? What could you do in EVE that would have any meaning?

EVERYTHING revovles around space ships. The market, the community, the game play, ever concievable interaction has spaceships at it's core. you can't pilot a Mech or a tank or an (underwater) submarine or a race car. If you want to be EVE Infantry you have to buy a PS3 lol.

Yes, it's just about space ships, and it will be until CCP lets me pilot my MTAC into a Sansha Star base's docking ring and wreck shop, which is the only walking in a station I really want to do.



Has anyone ever...EVER...suggested removing spaceships from the game?

I've seen you pull some good straw-mans out of your ass, but this is by far the best to date.

Mr Epeen Cool
TedStriker
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2014-02-09 19:18:42 UTC  |  Edited by: TedStriker
Arduemont wrote:
$37m dollars. How did they get this money? Well, they asked for it, and people gave it to them.

Just let that sink in for a moment.


Nonononono...all the sympathy in the world from me for Star Citizen, but this is not what happened.

Star Citizens hits a very specific neglected niche in the gaming market, neglected for about 10 years now (cockpit 3d-space shooters). They showed a great trailer, combining exactly that gameplay with next-gen graphics. They already had investors and the community jumped on the chance to get in backing a well known name.

So no, they didn't simply "ask", they promised a very specific thing and showed what they had already. If they fail they will probably bring down crowdfunding down a notch again.


Now, to EvE: EvE could never replace a concept like Star Citizen, its just not the same thing, on NO level.

Incarna was not avatar-action in Space, it was Second-Life in Space. It was microtransactions in a Space Station. Yes, even the most extended visions so far (before the release) never included any action gameplay. That came after, with the trailer for Dust when they tried to salvage something, which we now know failed aswell and got dropped (the prototype for example).

This chapter is DEAD. Accept it. To do something like it again would mean STARTING OVER, completely new. There is nothing they have that they could release, that was just prototyping. They explained this several times. All teams got disbanded. Its OVER.

The only, remote hope to ever see anything again would be a WoD success and easy portability between both codebasis. Very remote chance. And then, they would still build up a team again to monetize on it, it won't come just for fun.

Atm their moto is: One universe, multiple games. So, i repeat myself, but this vision of an fully integrated thing for EvE Online is dead.
ashley Eoner
#107 - 2014-02-09 19:21:43 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Arduemont wrote:
$37m dollars. How did they get this money? Well, they asked for it, and people gave it to them.

Just let that sink in for a moment.

If it was anyone other then Chris Roberts we wouldn't even be talking about it. That man stole my childhood with the early wing commander/privateer series along with starlancer. The things he did then were groundbreaking and to see him get back into the genre was enough for me to donate.
ashley Eoner
#108 - 2014-02-09 19:24:42 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
But the point above still stands, Eve isn't just a spaceship game. Never has been, never will be.


If you remove the spaceships from EVE (and change nothing else) what are you left with? What could you do in EVE that would have any meaning?

EVERYTHING revovles around space ships. The market, the community, the game play, ever concievable interaction has spaceships at it's core. you can't pilot a Mech or a tank or an (underwater) submarine or a race car. If you want to be EVE Infantry you have to buy a PS3 lol.

Yes, it's just about space ships, and it will be until CCP lets me pilot my MTAC into a Sansha Star base's docking ring and wreck shop, which is the only walking in a station I really want to do.


So wait you're saying that if they remove the one thing that has been the only thing developed that there's nothing left? I can't imagine how that's possible AMAZING....
Brit Green
Hagkaup
#109 - 2014-02-09 19:34:07 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


If you remove the market from EVE (and change nothing else) what are you left with? What could you do in EVE that would have any meaning?

EVERYTHING revovles around the market. The spaceships, the community, the game play, ever concievable interaction has the market at it's core. you can't pilot anything if you can't buy, sell it or build it.

Yes, it's just about the market, and it will be until CCP completely changes the game and just starts giving stuff away.



swidt
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#110 - 2014-02-09 21:45:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
TedStriker wrote:
Yes, even the most extended visions so far (before the release) never included any action gameplay.


Have you been living under a rock? You never saw the Eve Forever trailer?

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#111 - 2014-02-09 21:50:18 UTC
I'm not claiming that Eve is dying or that it will be driven out of business etc,. but I would like the virtual world that I've invested almost six years of game time in to continue to be the market leader that it is today. That's why I advocate that CCP expand gameplay in any way they can and in particular via avatar gameplay.

Otherwise there will be a point in the future when I tell someone that I play Eve Online they will reply and say 'oh yeah, isn't that just like (insert yet to be developed game name) though not as good...'

That will be a very sad day indeed...

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
TedStriker
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2014-02-09 22:05:50 UTC  |  Edited by: TedStriker
Arduemont wrote:
TedStriker wrote:
Yes, even the most extended visions so far (before the release) never included any action gameplay.


Have you been living under a rock? You never saw the Eve Forever trailer?


Don't debate with someone who has been here since 2004 and had to live through all this (and more) with a heavy heavy heart. I know how CCP does "vision trailers", (lets talk about athmospheric flight, anyone?) They don't matter, they don't show stuff that is planned, often they just show something "cool" that fits the trailer storyline, like in this case.

This was already the trailer aimed at DUST's implementation with EvE, just because there is 1 scene in it that could mean something like it CCP made it very, very clear that no action gameplay was to be expected anytime soon, if at all, even at the fanfest they showed this.

Context matters, not just wishfull thinking.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#113 - 2014-02-09 22:35:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
We got all the content that CCP had for WIS. We still have Arum and the NEX store.
…all abandoned in favour of the kind of changes people wanted them to focus on. Only when that change was actually provably put into practice did people start to return. You'll have to be a whole lot more specific if you want to turn “make a complete and very humbling 180 to abandon a clearly and (initially) strongly defended long-term goal to instead institute changes specifically asked for” into some variation of “ignore”.

Quote:
Their episode accomplished exactly what CCP wanted it to.
So getting rid of a quarter of their staff was the evil plan all along? That's some pretty strong tinfoil you have there…


The day you don't dissect, misquote and willfully misinterpret something to spout your own twisted agenda is the day I will go back and like every one of your posts in every thread you haven't managed to get locked.

Mr Epeen Cool
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#114 - 2014-02-09 23:43:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Brit Green wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


If you remove the market from EVE (and change nothing else) what are you left with? What could you do in EVE that would have any meaning?

EVERYTHING revovles around the market. The spaceships, the community, the game play, ever concievable interaction has the market at it's core. you can't pilot anything if you can't buy, sell it or build it.

Yes, it's just about the market, and it will be until CCP completely changes the game and just starts giving stuff away.



swidt


Except that the game gives you free ships everytime you dock that have nothing to do with the market, the contract system works, barter would work (badly) and certain avenues of play give you ships, blue prints weapons and mods.

In other words, as terrible as it would be, you could play EVE without a the market. That market means less than zero without space ships.

Some will say the game is about "more than space ships" but every game is like that. In the mid 1980s the Karate Champ game I spent every available quarter on wasn't about using dual joysticks in a mall arcade to spin kick the crap out of trash talkin pre-teen idiots. No sir, it was about the transcendent spirt of the human condition that , once set free, soared to incredible heights and left an indelible mark on history......

...ok, no it wasn't, it was about using dual joysticks in a mall arcade to spin kick the crap out of trash talkin pre-teen idiots not that psuedo-intellectual BS some people wanted it to be about lol. And EVE is about space ships.

I wonder if there are people playing World of Tanks posting on a forum about how the game doesn't actually feature and center upon tanks lol.
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#115 - 2014-02-09 23:48:52 UTC  |  Edited by: helana Tsero
I have wanted WIS for a long time. Ive done alot of different things in Eve - HS missioning, Exploration, HS ganking, Ninja salvaging, LS PVP and WH PVP & PVE, Null sec raids

... and even though these are all different things, Im still looking at the same UI, same red and purple squares / crosses in space. It all just feels the same. Ugh

Eve is engrossing however I now want to continue the Player vs Player interaction : the ganking, the betrayals, burn jita, the code miner content, the null sec strategy and conquest/defeats, even the industry and market etc etc through a different ui and different look and feel.

The EVE content that the playerbase creates is awesome, its just CCP's ui and everything I do being in a spaceship that has gotten stale.

That being said - perhaps people could link some of the WIS ideas that would enable the player vs player content to continue out of a spaceship.

For me it would be an awesome first step to have a weekly ingame news videoshow on the CQ big screens with CCP devs like CCP Guard and co doing a Role Play style presentation featuring stuff like

- the nullsec fights, diplo and territory changes
- HS player vs player content eg CODE, Udeama ganks, POCO takeovers, Burn Jita etc
- Backstory news
- Faction warfare territory wins and losses.
- Stat updates on stuff produced, market flucuations for industry types.

Essentially let all the players be aware of what player created content is currrently going on around the EVE universe... and hey ! maybe they then might want to stop HS missioning and go do some Player vs Player stuff.

for me that is what EVE is about - a harsh scifi universe of player created content. Its not about spaceships its about the players.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#116 - 2014-02-10 00:10:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Mr Epeen wrote:
The day you don't dissect, misquote and willfully misinterpret correct something to spout your own twisted agenda clear up misunderstandings is the day I will go back and like every one of your posts in every thread you haven't managed to get locked.
So far, I haven't managed to get a single thread locked, so that'll be a lot of work for you.

That aside, I'm simply pointing out what happened: they went wildly astray in their development and business planning; people told them so in no uncertain terms and hit CCP right where it hurts — in the wallet — and didn't come back until the development and business plan had been reversed.

If you want to turn the loss of 10% of their subscribers and 20% of their staff into “they planned it all along”, and turn a 180 in where they were going with the game after the customer very clearly told them where they should be going into “they ignored the players” you're going to need to come up with something far better than baseless innuendo.

ashley Eoner wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
But the point above still stands, Eve isn't just a spaceship game. Never has been, never will be.

If you remove the spaceships from EVE (and change nothing else) what are you left with? What could you do in EVE that would have any meaning?

So wait you're saying that if they remove the one thing that has been the only thing developed that there's nothing left? I can't imagine how that's possible AMAZING....

He's saying that for 10 years, EVE has only been a game about spaceships, as shown by the fact that if you remove the spaceships from EVE, you're left with nothing coherent and playable, and that for 10 years, it has survived and grown on that single premise alone.

Arduemont is pointing to the fact that the vision for the EVE universe has been about much more, but that doesn't actually change what the last 10 years of EVE has been about.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#117 - 2014-02-10 00:21:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
WIS / Incarna is just another casualty of having far too much influence from the CSM.

There, chew on that and know that with every greasy bite, that promises were made, broken, remade (foolish us) and then rebroken again.

DUST has screwed EVE out of dev resources and content. Gorgeous artwork aside, the world did not need yet another FPS that will quite possibly disappear the next time console technology leaps up a notch or two.

Then there is this worthless barbie-doll vampire hack of a fantasy MMO. Pure drek. I'm sure there are better things for the Atlanta office to put it's vast talent and dev potential into.

And now, Valkyrie -- which in and of itself is THE BEST IDEA of all three -- is unlikely to see it's full potential -- BECAUSE CCP has lost it's focus.

AGAIN.

Nevermind that there is tonnes of stuff that simply needs revamping and/or fixing in EVE.

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#118 - 2014-02-10 08:31:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
TedStriker wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
TedStriker wrote:
Yes, even the most extended visions so far (before the release) never included any action gameplay.


Have you been living under a rock? You never saw the Eve Forever trailer?


Don't debate with someone who has been here since 2004 and had to live through all this (and more) with a heavy heavy heart. I know how CCP does "vision trailers", (lets talk about athmospheric flight, anyone?) They don't matter, they don't show stuff that is planned, often they just show something "cool" that fits the trailer storyline, like in this case.

This was already the trailer aimed at DUST's implementation with EvE, just because there is 1 scene in it that could mean something like it CCP made it very, very clear that no action gameplay was to be expected anytime soon, if at all, even at the fanfest they showed this.

Context matters, not just wishfull thinking.


Your an alt from 2004, therefore dont' argue with you right? Pff, so 6 years of continuous sub and more activity in game then that alt of yours ever had counts for nothing then?

Also, I feel your grief with CCP's broken promises. I'm not contesting that. Fact is though, you said never and I proved that wasn't true. Also, there is a much bigger problem with your previous post, but currently I am content with taking snipes at people's posts because I am too lazy to type.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#119 - 2014-02-10 13:52:02 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
TedStriker wrote:
Yes, even the most extended visions so far (before the release) never included any action gameplay.


Have you been living under a rock? You never saw the Eve Forever trailer?


... wtf?! I want to play THAT ...

Thank me later :D
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#120 - 2014-02-10 22:49:04 UTC
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
TedStriker wrote:
Yes, even the most extended visions so far (before the release) never included any action gameplay.


Have you been living under a rock? You never saw the Eve Forever trailer?


... wtf?! I want to play THAT ...


I wish I could say that was Eve, to be fair a lot of promises have been made to both the dust players and the Eve players over the last few years, especially in that video. I hope that one day eve finally comes out of maintenance mode and CCP starts working on real eve content by trying to fulfill that vision.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...