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Dev blog: SoE battleship & UI fine-tune

First post
Author
Allaera
Kalmincon
#41 - 2014-01-29 03:56:26 UTC
Celia Therone wrote:
Allaera wrote:
Sylari Azure wrote:
Awesome, nice increase on the Armor Repairer range!! This is what the people's wanted! Shocked ty! excited!


What range increase? If you are talking about the Nestor's bonus (as I assume you are) I'd love to know where the hell you got that idea from as the Devs didn't change a damn thing on that ill-conceived lump since CCP Rise announced it back in early December!!

CCP Rise's announcement

Patchnotes (scroll down a tad)

When Rise originally posted the Nestor didn't have the +100% remote repair range, the original post got edited to add that bonus due to feedback.

You can see where someone quoted Rise's original post, without the range bonus, here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3958158#post3958158

Here's Rise's post about them adding the repair range bonus: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3966636#post3966636

Rise also increased the warp speed to 2.5AU/sec from 2.0 AU/sec.

(I'm not saying that these changes made the Nestor into a desirable ship, but they were made.)


Ah, I must have missed that page Ugh

I stand corrected. Thanks for that Celia and apologies to Sylari Cool
DeAira
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#42 - 2014-01-29 04:29:10 UTC
So this is only useful in wormholes? That seems rather limited.

#justice4VileRat

CCP Creber Cattus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#43 - 2014-01-30 10:27:46 UTC
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Any chance of getting the traits broken out into a yaml file or similar, as they're no longer in the SDE?


Sure, we'll figure something out and let you guys know.


In the newest SDE then ship types (in the typesIDs.yaml file) contain traits (both role bonuses and skill bonuses).
You can get the Rubicon 1.1.2 SDE here
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#44 - 2014-01-30 10:37:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
CCP Creber Cattus wrote:
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Any chance of getting the traits broken out into a yaml file or similar, as they're no longer in the SDE?


Sure, we'll figure something out and let you guys know.


In the newest SDE then ship types (in the typesIDs.yaml file) contain traits (both role bonuses and skill bonuses).
You can get the Rubicon 1.1.2 SDE here



Are there any other changes? Or just the yaml update? (Mostly asking so I know if a full conversion run is needed, or just a point update)

Edit:
Just in case that sounded ungrateful: \o/ Thanks!

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#45 - 2014-01-31 10:14:09 UTC
CCP Creber Cattus wrote:
In the newest SDE then ship types (in the typesIDs.yaml file) contain traits (both role bonuses and skill bonuses).
You can get the Rubicon 1.1.2 SDE here

Thanks for the quick fix, much appreciated!
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#46 - 2014-02-09 11:41:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
CCP Phantom wrote:
With Rubicon 1.1, to be deployed on Tuesday, Jan 28, we will introduce amongst other things the new Sisters of EVE battleship, the Nestor. Team "Game of Drones" worked also on UI improvements such as adding "Traits" to the ship "Show info" window which will show skill bonus applied to the ship in a similar fashion as the ISIS.

Check out all the goodies coming from Team "Game of Drones" in CCP Xhagen's latest dev blog Rubicon 1.1: Sisters of EVE Reinforcements and UI fine-tuning.

We welcome your feedback and constructive discussions in this thread here.


Honestly, for 1 mil LP I kind of expected this to have better bonuses (Defense wise) Instead of just 4% Armor resistances. Also this ship class (SOE in general) should be available to all players, not just Armor users.

Also due to the low amount of Lowslots, your not looking at a very good tank if you want any DPS. As mostly this ship will be used for PvE, you would think it would be made more viable for missioning.

(I mean really whos going to use a 3 billion ISK "Battleship" hull in PvP? realistically (Besides Goonswarm) "especially" when it's tank is so weak?. You want this for exploration... and it's suposedly logi support, yet it's going to die so fast in a WH (PVE) it wont have time to rep anything. And in PvP....... Yea No.

I mean seriously CCP..... Really....

It should contain the following "Suggested changes:"

Slot Changes:

Highslots - 7
Midslots - 6
Lowslots - 8

--- For a decent Armor tank (with sufficient DPS) you need a minimum of 7 Lowslots. 8 is prefered on Mission / PvE ships.
--- For a decent Shield tank you need a minimum of 6 midslots (Currently this is what the ship has).

Armor:

Amarr BS Bonuses:

* 4% bonus to Armor resistances (Per level)
* 7% Bonus to Repair Amount of Armor Repers (Per Level)


Caldari BS Bonuses:

Shield:

* 4% Bonus to Shield Resistances (Per Level)
* 7% bonus to Shield Booster amount (Per Level)


Galente BS Bonuses:

* Remain the same


But you say that's 3 ship type Bonuses?... So? "It's SOE and Costs 1 MILLION LP" (Or 3 Billion + ISK) Thats 3 times as much as any other Faction ship pirate or otherwise, and the cost of a fraken Dreadnaught!). It had better damn well be worth it. This bennifits both veterans and Newer players, if your cross faction trained you get max bonuses to shield and armor. If your a newer player you still get a tank bonus whether you play armor or shield.

This also makes it worth the price tag.

And currently.. well... It isn't.

Some might say my change sugestions ar a bit OP.... Well... if I'm paying the same price for a BS, as I would pay for a dreadnought.... Well.... It should be OP (For it's ship class). Not worse then a regular T-1.

Why would you pay 1 mil LP or 3 billion ISk for a ship that's worse then most T1 BS's?

I wouldn't.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#47 - 2014-02-09 11:55:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
DeAira wrote:
So this is only useful in wormholes? That seems rather limited.


It's not useful at all, look at the tank. It wouldn't survive in a C3, let a lone a C4. And definitely not worth the 1 mil LP or 3 bil Price tag as I pointed out before. I lived in a C4 for 2 years, this is 100% not something I would ever fly. I'd fly a Dominix or Domi Navy (If I was going for armor), because it is infinitely more useful and infinitely cheaper then this piece of garbage. (No offense). Or a Navy Scorp if I was going for Shield again because it's infinitely cheaper and more useful.


Sadly this ship will be a "Novelty Item". Something cool to own and look at, but due to the price tag and **** bonuses - not really useful for anything other then level 3 missions, Highsec anomalies, or sitting in your Hanger looking pretty. Much like the special Edition BC they put out. pretty to look at, but useless in functionality and realistic purpose due to slot layout and price.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#48 - 2014-02-09 12:04:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
Jason Atavuli wrote:
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Sylari Azure wrote:
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Oh boy! An exploration ship that is slow and unable to travel through low/null sec in relative safety... Just what I've always wanted! Straight

You guys are dumb for not giving the Nestor a covert cloak or a jump drive. Fact!


I won't use the term 'fact' but I will say that it's highly likely that you are a moron who rationalizes before using logic.

Case? This post. Please repost with some form of statement in which you are not a raving lunatic, thank you.


Or maybe the moron is the one who fail to see the irony of someone stating that there personal opinion is a fact...

That said, I think the majority of player would agree that a exploration ship without a cloak wasn't what we needed. A cloaky logistics ship on the other hand, is something that would be useful to many players.


Or maybe the Astero and Stratios are the relatively safe null exploration ships...

And maybe the Nestor is the nullbear ratting ship which can field 5 sentries, poke at rats with a laser to assign aggro, and rep armor on a few alts in dommies, and maybe that 1 other Alt in an Eos (who's boosting rep rate and repper cap usage). All while being able to warp out faster than a Thanatos if a dropper enters system, and do a ghost site without caring if the site goes boom.

Perhaps the probe bonus is there because it's an SOE ship, kinda like gallente ships that mostly have some kind of armor and drone bonus, and yet they don't all have the +7.5% to drone tracking the Dommie has.

All that aside, who the hell goes ninja exploring in a battleship anyway? BLOPS bro, if you really feel safer in a cloaky lump it's not that much skilling, and besides you really should have all the core skills to 5 and all the t1 sub cap hulls and weapons to 5 already or you're doing it wrong ;)

Oh and Etana . . . or fit a cloak to a scimi / guardian. Yes I know it nerfs the scan res, but if you don't like that, get an Etana.

Complaining about what isn't won't help, work with what you've got bro. That's half the fun of EVE



All of this.. and yet because of it's crap tank, it will die to a single SB...... Unlike "ANY" other T-1 BS fit with he same price tag. You forget this ship is worth more then a Dreadnought. ISK wise because of the High LP cost. (1 million LP). Take that into account do you really think anyone is going to take this out of highsec? Or even undock in such a shiny suicideable target?

Wait... Don't change a thing.. nvm.... Shiny easy kills incoming.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#49 - 2014-02-09 12:08:45 UTC
This ship is obviously an ISK / LP sink scam, nothing more.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#50 - 2014-02-09 17:40:09 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Jason Atavuli wrote:
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Sylari Azure wrote:
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Oh boy! An exploration ship that is slow and unable to travel through low/null sec in relative safety... Just what I've always wanted! Straight

You guys are dumb for not giving the Nestor a covert cloak or a jump drive. Fact!


I won't use the term 'fact' but I will say that it's highly likely that you are a moron who rationalizes before using logic.

Case? This post. Please repost with some form of statement in which you are not a raving lunatic, thank you.


Or maybe the moron is the one who fail to see the irony of someone stating that there personal opinion is a fact...

That said, I think the majority of player would agree that a exploration ship without a cloak wasn't what we needed. A cloaky logistics ship on the other hand, is something that would be useful to many players.


Or maybe the Astero and Stratios are the relatively safe null exploration ships...

And maybe the Nestor is the nullbear ratting ship which can field 5 sentries, poke at rats with a laser to assign aggro, and rep armor on a few alts in dommies, and maybe that 1 other Alt in an Eos (who's boosting rep rate and repper cap usage). All while being able to warp out faster than a Thanatos if a dropper enters system, and do a ghost site without caring if the site goes boom.

Perhaps the probe bonus is there because it's an SOE ship, kinda like gallente ships that mostly have some kind of armor and drone bonus, and yet they don't all have the +7.5% to drone tracking the Dommie has.

All that aside, who the hell goes ninja exploring in a battleship anyway? BLOPS bro, if you really feel safer in a cloaky lump it's not that much skilling, and besides you really should have all the core skills to 5 and all the t1 sub cap hulls and weapons to 5 already or you're doing it wrong ;)

Oh and Etana . . . or fit a cloak to a scimi / guardian. Yes I know it nerfs the scan res, but if you don't like that, get an Etana.

Complaining about what isn't won't help, work with what you've got bro. That's half the fun of EVE



All of this.. and yet because of it's crap tank, it will die to a single SB...... Unlike "ANY" other T-1 BS fit with he same price tag. You forget this ship is worth more then a Dreadnought. ISK wise because of the High LP cost. (1 million LP). Take that into account do you really think anyone is going to take this out of highsec? Or even undock in such a shiny suicideable target?

Wait... Don't change a thing.. nvm.... Shiny easy kills incoming.


How much are you buying Dreads for, and where can I get one?

The ships sell for less than 2 billion. the last dead I bought was over 2.5

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Cerulean Ice
Royal Amarr Reclamation
#51 - 2014-02-10 09:21:41 UTC
I see your art has a shuttle hiding on it... any chance of a SOE shuttle showing up in the near future? I'd love to add one to my collection.
Saelyth
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
#52 - 2014-02-11 20:21:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Saelyth
I think the main thing people who are raging so hard about are forgetting is that this is a LOGISTICS ship capable of over 100k EHP, about 600 DPS (with drones at a range of 100+, no lasers), that has the capacity to remote rep the equiv of 6 large reps. Comparatively that's over a 1.5x of a Capital repper, more if you use T2 reps. It's a "mini carrier," in a sense, and should be supported like one.

As a solo ship, the Nestor is absolutely terrible, no questions asked. The key thing is that in numbers, this ship becomes absolutely devastating. I've been playing with fits for weeks, constantly tweaking and tinkering for whatever I can feel is acceptable for its role and purpose. Sure, if I wanted raw DPS and damage application, I'd use a Dominix (also maintaining to Armor doctrines); I won't argue with you there.

In any case, the design I'm looking most intensely at right now goes something like this:
4x M4 or T2 Large Remote Armor Reps
2x T2 Drone Links for control range
1x Auto Targeter (for +3 targets) or Large Energy transfer

Some mix of the following:
Omni Directionals
ECCMs
Large Cap Batteries for some neut reflection
Cap rechargers

Also some mix of:
1600 plates
ENAMs
Drone Damage
Cap Relays
DC

Basically I'm looking at upwards of 100 sensor strength, about 1.5-2x cap armor rep equiv, all while bringing around 600 DPS that can be easily assigned to any other fleet member. A small gang with say, three of these would be very difficult to overcome. Of course we wouldn't just use three and no support, these things are going to be primaries just as readily as a carrier would be. Bring a geddon or two for neut and yet more drones assignable to your FC or anyone unjammed. Bring an Eos if you want to add a few more sentries to the fray and some armor/info links as well. There are lots of options available. You can't only look at the Nestor's raw numbers for a single trait and use that as a comparison to specialized ships.

Personally, I happen to like the prospect of our Logistics pilots being able to apply damage. In my opinion, while we can certainly run sites with T2 Logis and some domis and complete them with minimal isk on the field, I'm of the preference of faster completion and fielding ships capable of fighting back should the INEVITABLE occur. Let's face it, this is EVE; ships blow up. I'd rather go down slugging it out in ships that are ready for a fight than sitting on my ass just waiting for someone to finally primary me. We're all here itching for the "good fight," the memorable one, the one you talk about with your corp mates every now and then who were on your wing when it happened. I don't want to be in the carrier that got bhaalgorned into oblivion that sat there in triage with no cap to do anything. I don't want to be in the little logistics cruiser that got nuked out of existence the moment a dozen or two ships jumped to grid, looking at my new pod in Empire space knowing all my friends are about to join me and there's nothing I can do.

TL:DR
The nestor is a fleet ship. Using is by itself is stupid. Using just two of them is probably also borderline stupid. In any case, I'll reiterate that it's a LOGISTICS ship that can bring substantial DPS and range to the grid. Further, being a battleship hull, it'll even allow you to get creative in your emergency refitting in ways of micro jumps, spectrum breakers, use of micro jump deployable, and so forth, all options unavailable to carriers.
Rek Seven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2014-02-12 10:06:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Saelyth wrote:

TL:DR
The nestor is a fleet ship. Using is by itself is stupid. Using just two of them is probably also borderline stupid. In any case, I'll reiterate that it's a LOGISTICS ship that can bring substantial DPS and range to the grid. Further, being a battleship hull, it'll even allow you to get creative in your emergency refitting in ways of micro jumps, spectrum breakers, use of micro jump deployable, and so forth, all options unavailable to carriers.


I don't disagree with you. The Nestors main role is being a logistics battleship with the added advantage of being able to deal good dps but currently it costs too much and has too many disadvantages.

Being a battleship means it has a long lock time and as armor reps land at the end of a cycle, i takes too long to start applying reps to smaller targets to be an effective logistics ships.

If Target spectrum breaker were not so broken, it would have turned this ship into something special but as long as the breaker disrupts the lock of friendly's on top of reducing your scan res, it's useless.

As you allude to, the best tactic to employ would be to field these in a spider tanking blob but when a competent hostile fleet catches you, you're going to lose billion for no reason other than you wanting to fly a new shiny.
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