Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Its a good thing EVE online is a video game and not a country then, Otherwise I might look like a fool. CSM isn't a political body, it is a player advisory council for CCP. They don't even have to listen to you guys. So really its like a group that gets to hang out in Iceland and have a cool forum badge.

I guess if you want to call that politics. :thumbs up:

nerf bloc voting, nerf charisma, nerf friendship, nerf standings, and also give me a pony

Projection is my wordage for application sorry.

As for application going up. Other BS weapons are going to have a higher peak damage potential than Sentries do. Arty Cannons will do more damage to Carriers than Sentry Drones. Sentry Drones have better application against targets going down the scale than Arty weapons, and thus a higher peak damage potential.

2 different weapons for 2 different purposes. However you are now asking CCP to keep sentries worse in their upwards application, and worse in their downwards application. To what benefit. The only out come is the removal of drone ships. Why even bring a domi when its projected damage is inferior in all aspects against other weapons platforms.

I totally get the cyclical rock/paper/scissors ****, but at this point you are asking CCP to manufacture Rock beating Scissors. It doesn't actually beat Scissors right now and the changes being mentioned in combination with changes already in place manufacture an imbalance that isn't actually present.

In short the proposed changes don't actually solve an issue, because there is no issue in the current game. Even CCP Rise has not defined and issue.

He said:

People aren't having fun only one guy is doing anything and we think more people should actually push buttons.

~ First this is entirely subjective. CCP Rise has no idea how I have fun, neither do you nor anyone on the CSM. I didn't fill out a survey asking if I have fun assining drones to a target myself or not. So really this is just an arbitrary change that actually has no bearing in the game at all as fun isn't a concrete mechanic but a subjective opinion that varies wildly between each individual person.



We also want to reduce drone load (hopefully) and think that reduced assigning can help in this.

~ Drone assign doesn't cause people to bring drones. The fact that I have a drone bay in my ship is why I bring drones. Because even an extra 150 DPS * number of ships can win or lose a fight. Just because I can't have another pilot assign my drones, doesn't mean I won't bring them.

My argument is that the proposed changes don't solve either of the issues. One isn't even a tangible issue, and the other is unchanged because as long as every ship has a drone bay, then drones will be on field.

so again, we can discuss actual changes, or we can hi five and circle jerk each other for changes that don't address the only actual issue. How to cram 4K dudes into a system and make it as enjoyable and as server friendly as possible.

Who uses Sentries to fight capitals? My concern is their like size and under fights. Omni's has already impacted this. If you use Sentries against Capitals you should just go back to highsec...or you are trying to manufacture an issue that doesn't exist.


The fact that this change does nothing to impact server load is the issue. Even if you eliminate Drone Assign you are still going to have Drone Bay * Number of ships... CCP Rises "fix" doesn't actually solve the only actual issue drones have. (He already fixed the application of damage going down the ship scale with omni changes.)

fyi

at 25 mbps of bandwidth per drone

sentry drones fit into the BATTLESHIP class of weapons

trying to argue that a battleship class weapon necessarily needs the ability to engage on any given terms with lower ship sizes without using webs, target painters, or a steady eye on the angular velocity column of the overview is pretty silly

just because the current settings allow you to engage all ship sizes without respect to transversal or signature radius doesn't make it right

Their damage application exceeding other BS only applies when talking about going backwards in ship progression though. All other BS weapon system deal more damage against like size and larger size. Sentries cap out damage before any other weapons platform against like size ships and ships going up in scale. Every other BS weapons platform is going to out damage sentries against other BS and Capitals. (this has been addressed with Omni changes, and Drone assist doesn't make this any more or any less potent)

I only brought up Capitals because sentries damage spectrum behaves in such a way that they essentially become the defensive capability for larger sized ships to defense themselves against smaller sized ships. Thus showing a distinct place for drone use against comparable like weapon sizes. This applies for all drone sizes not just sentries.


You keep ignoring however CCP Rise's second point regarding server strain. Which his fix does not actually address.

If the server strain issue is actually a problem (obviously it is) then he should be focusing on minimizing drones. The fact of assigning drones is irrelevant to the use of drones. If you have 100 Megathrons, or100 Domis, you are going to still have 500 drones regardless if you assign them or not. But if Megas can't use drones...then only Domis add to the server strain minimizing potential use of drones by a sizeable percentage at the BS hull size.

His "fix" doesn't actually fix anything. All it does is change the amount of people making drones attack from 1 to 5 per fleet. All his fix does is just add really unneeded additional fleet setup. It doesn't fix a damn thing. Ultimately on the large scale it makes Drone boats just irritating to use in a setup sense.

Why not fix the issue and just get rid of drone bays from ships that dont actually need them. The problem isn't Drone Assist. The problem is with drones themselves.

But hey we already know CCP loves addressing symptoms and not causation.

Neat, then it should be abolished. There is no need for banner waving in game design. Has the CSM actually ever accomplished anything worthwhile, or only commented on **** CCP was going to do anyway?

I'll file that in the box labeled "safe to ignore".

are there seriously people on page 51 who are still conflating 50 drones with 50 persons

it's like the critical thinking train derailed and caused a critical shortage of reading comprehension

let me do a math for you

a subcap can control 5 drones, therefore a drone assist will be able to handle 10 shipsworth of mans

a carrier typically fields about 10 drones depending on fit and skills, therefore a drone assist will be able to handle 5 carriersworth of drones

Of course drone usage won't end. It'll likely return to more acceptable (server-strain wise) levels. You know, before drone assist sentry fleets became all the rage. That's what they're betting, anyway.

BTW if you think that drone assist wasn't one of the biggest reasons said fleets were popular then looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool