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..Well that sucked

Author
Ezra Blade Blade
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-02-07 16:01:09 UTC
4 month old player here been doing PVE- mining, l4 security. having fun. thought i'd try something new.
Read the WH forum and the 'Islands amongst the stars' blog. Awesome information.
Found a WH in high sec, level 1.
brought in my retriever to mine some ore. Drones were able to kill the sleepers in my or zones.
always checking Dscan
then I was dead.
like in 8 seconds.
Tengu- never saw him coming- never saw probes.
30m ship. well, first death in 4 months aint bad I guess. But WH seem so exciting and new! but I cant afford to be losing 30m ships.
i'd love to get any encouragement/advice.
Please, I already know " WTFUDOINGINWHSPACENEWB!"
I don't need that
thanks!
Caius Beriat
O'Coin Enterprises
#2 - 2014-02-07 16:11:30 UTC
Ezra Blade Blade wrote:
4 month old player here been doing PVE- mining, l4 security. having fun. thought i'd try something new.
Read the WH forum and the 'Islands amongst the stars' blog. Awesome information.
Found a WH in high sec, level 1.
brought in my retriever to mine some ore. Drones were able to kill the sleepers in my or zones.
always checking Dscan
then I was dead.
like in 8 seconds.
Tengu- never saw him coming- never saw probes.
30m ship. well, first death in 4 months aint bad I guess. But WH seem so exciting and new! but I cant afford to be losing 30m ships.
i'd love to get any encouragement/advice.
Please, I already know " WTFUDOINGINWHSPACENEWB!"
I don't need that
thanks!


If you never saw him coming he was likely cloak fit. You won't have seen probes either as he just has to warp to ore anoms instead of scanning them down.

My advice to you, stay aligned out. There's a delay from the time he uncloaks to when he can lock your ship, you may have been able to get out.

If you are solo, maybe invest in alts and sit them on wormholes so you can listen for activation then gtfo.
Ezra Blade Blade
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-02-07 16:13:39 UTC
Wow, I know it may seem simple, but that's great advice. I appreciate it.
How do I know someone has me locked? also should I fit a sensor disruptor? would that buy me lock time to get out?
thanks
Jay Joringer
13.
Enigma Project
#4 - 2014-02-07 16:21:06 UTC
ermagerd! Decent advice from Caius.

Although he did stop short of advising the procurement of a Venture if you must mine in hostile J-Space -and by hostile I mean a system that isn't yours. Cheaper than retrievers and harder to tie down.
Nightingale Actault
Borderland Dynamics
#5 - 2014-02-07 16:28:49 UTC
Staying aligned isn't going to work as you'll end up out of range of your mining target.

Alts sitting on wormholes can help, but only if the connection they come through is already existing, and not a new k162.

My recommendation if you are just planning on "day tripping" mining is to consider the total cost of the ship you are flying. Since WH ores can be more lucrative than empire ores your goal should be to mine more isk worth of minerals than your ship cost before you lose it. This is referred to as yield tanking and as long as you end with positive cash flow you're in good shape. Fly a cheap pod as you'll likely lose that as well.

TL;DR You're not likely to be able to keep yourself from being killed flying solo, so fly cheap and try to collect more ore than the value of your ship before you die.
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-02-07 16:30:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Gnaw LF
Ezra Blade Blade wrote:
4 month old player here been doing PVE- mining, l4 security. having fun. thought i'd try something new.
Read the WH forum and the 'Islands amongst the stars' blog. Awesome information.
Found a WH in high sec, level 1.
brought in my retriever to mine some ore. Drones were able to kill the sleepers in my or zones.
always checking Dscan
then I was dead.
like in 8 seconds.
Tengu- never saw him coming- never saw probes.
30m ship. well, first death in 4 months aint bad I guess. But WH seem so exciting and new! but I cant afford to be losing 30m ships.
i'd love to get any encouragement/advice.
Please, I already know " WTFUDOINGINWHSPACENEWB!"
I don't need that
thanks!



Ok, so there are a couple of things. First and most important is that d-scan does save lives but not always and only in the 14.5AU range, that is the furthest range of your d-scan. If you are going to mine in a system that is larger than 14.5 AU do yourself a favor and scan for all wormholes, make sure that they are in dscan range of your ore site. Otherwise, someone can pop into the system, take their sweet time to cloak and then warp about the system looking for prey. I do that all the time, its my favorite thing in eve.

The other thing you should be aware of is that you are not a robot, no matter how often you will press the scan button on your dscan you can still miss a cloaky ship. Chances are low but it is still possible.

So what can you do? There is no way to be 100% safe, that is the beauty of w-space. However you can reduce the chance of becoming a prey by doing the following things:

-Scan all sigs in system before mining, find wormholes and insure that they are within your dscan range, keep looking for new sigs as well as dscan during mining.
-Play around with a Venture, see if it suits your needs, +2 warp strength is a nice thing to have
-Try to look for a w-space corp and join them, there is strength in numbers and knowledge sharing

Finally I am giving this advice because I want more people in w-space regardless of what they do. however I prefer fighters over industrialists. Remember that while w-space does offer quite a lot of reward in a way of ISK for your pve activities, the most rewarding part of w-space is the pvp. Its not just the ISK, its the thrill of it, the scouting and manuevers that happen in w-space. W-space takes this good game to a brand new level of enjoyment. Look into it, train for it, and find yourself a nice group of like minded folks who are just as obsessed about melting faces off strangers as you are.
Caius Beriat
O'Coin Enterprises
#7 - 2014-02-07 16:32:37 UTC
Nightingale Actault wrote:
Staying aligned isn't going to work as you'll end up out of range of your mining target.

Alts sitting on wormholes can help, but only if the connection they come through is already existing, and not a new k162.

My recommendation if you are just planning on "day tripping" mining is to consider the total cost of the ship you are flying. Since WH ores can be more lucrative than empire ores your goal should be to mine more isk worth of minerals than your ship cost before you lose it. This is referred to as yield tanking and as long as you end with positive cash flow you're in good shape. Fly a cheap pod as you'll likely lose that as well.

TL;DR You're not likely to be able to keep yourself from being killed flying solo, so fly cheap and try to collect more ore than the value of your ship before you die.



We're not talking afk here. You can always move back if you get too far away. Unless you're a spastic.

This idea of folding over and letting yourself die is stupid. Do not listen to this person OP.
Caius Beriat
O'Coin Enterprises
#8 - 2014-02-07 16:35:20 UTC
Also, find yourself a corp that are into the things you enjoy. There's plenty of corps in J space that are into the industrial side of things.

Safety in numbers my friend.
Ezra Blade Blade
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-02-07 16:37:56 UTC
Wow great stuff here.
I expected flaming for being dumb for going there in the first place. So thank you all for giving me some great pointers.

But its so dang exciting and scary! I just cant stay away! I will be taking this info into acct..thanks all for taking the time.
Keep it coming !

one more thing. the warp strength on a venture- that helps me when im scrambled right? should I add another Warp core stab? for safety?
thanks!
Nightingale Actault
Borderland Dynamics
#10 - 2014-02-07 16:41:09 UTC
Caius Beriat wrote:


We're not talking afk here. You can always move back if you get too far away. Unless you're a spastic.

This idea of folding over and letting yourself die is stupid. Do not listen to this person OP.


A crafty hunter will recognize that his target needs to turn back around to continue mining and would wait for you to not be aligned before engaging. Alas, you never know what kind of enemy you face until it's often too late.

Also, if someone drops a dictor or hictor, all the warp core stabs in the world won't help you.

I do second the notion of using a venture however if you want to keep your costs low.
Caius Beriat
O'Coin Enterprises
#11 - 2014-02-07 16:49:03 UTC
Nightingale Actault wrote:
Caius Beriat wrote:


We're not talking afk here. You can always move back if you get too far away. Unless you're a spastic.

This idea of folding over and letting yourself die is stupid. Do not listen to this person OP.


A crafty hunter will recognize that his target needs to turn back around to continue mining and would wait for you to not be aligned before engaging. Alas, you never know what kind of enemy you face until it's often too late.

Also, if someone drops a dictor or hictor, all the warp core stabs in the world won't help you.

I do second the notion of using a venture however if you want to keep your costs low.



True that.

Lets hope the hunters are not crafty and just warp in all guns YOLO'ing like me.
Zeropa
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps
#12 - 2014-02-07 18:00:45 UTC
Smart cloakies use the uncloak ramming method so by the time you see them, he's bumping your ship out of alignment.
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
#13 - 2014-02-07 18:59:20 UTC
If you must ninja mine in a WH, use a venture. Here is something I threw together, adjust to your skills. Im not a venture expert but this would likely be extremely hard to catch.

It would need a 3 point scram to lock down. Even if that happens the AB overheated gives you 1260m/s so you can likely burn out of scram range unless also webbed.

Even if they drop a bubble, it goes 3800m/s with the MWD OH so you will still likely get away. Dunno if the shield stuff really matters honestly, but I figure if it helps with that one last volley to get out.

Also if solo diviing into a WH, you should always, ALWAYS, have a probe launcher

[Venture, Venture fit]

Mining Laser Upgrade II

Limited 1MN Afterburner I
Upgraded 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Small Shield Extender II

Miner II
Miner II
Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I

Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Ashimat
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-02-07 19:09:02 UTC
+1 for the Venture.

That ship is made for exactly what you want to do.

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com

Alundil
Rolled Out
#15 - 2014-02-07 20:22:54 UTC
Zeropa wrote:
Smart cloakies use the uncloak ramming method so by the time you see them, he's bumping your ship out of alignment.

This (it's my preferred method of cloaky tackle :p )

As for flames - I'm not surprised at the useful responses. We w-space people are pretty willing to educate people who are interested in learning to survive in our environment and not just whine about things.

There have been some good suggestions thus far though. If I might add on to them:

1. Venture - low skill and very cheap (and even more importantly very quick to align in case you "get a bad feeling" about something or someone goes for tackle. As has been said if a Interdictor or Heavy Interdictor lands on you and bubbles that's kind of game over usually unless you can burn out of scram range. Otherwise it'll take a skilled tackler to catch and pin a venture down if the venture is paying attention. Add a stab (wcs) in the low and make it even harder to scram. That should allow you to escape more often than not.

2. Barges/Exhumers - these are really easy to catch and kill because they are very slow to align/warp. Because of the Ore belt changes (gravimetric sites) it takes zero effort to find someone in one of these and get close enough to bump/tackle. If you ask my opinion mining in barges/exhumers in a wh is not well suited for solo operation given the inherent risk with regard to lack of eyes, intel, defensive capability. However, IF you choose to do so, then always be aligned. It might take a little more preparation but EVE favors the prepared. Pick the rocks you want (note that ABC is not always the highest isk/hr) and setup bookmarks in line along the paths of the rocks you're looking for that head out to a predetermined celestial cluster, OR even better, a premade safe spot off grid from anything else. In this way you simply can warp to the first bm and align towards the next (n) bookmarks at 2/3 speed (to insta-warp). Please note: This is likely only to save you once though as a scouting pilot (myself perhaps) would note the align points and patterns and simply setup to intercept that plotted line at the time of tackle.

3. Be paranoid.

4. BE PARANOID.

5. Watch/refresh D-scan and the signature list as frequently as you can stand to do so

6. BE PARANOID (we're all out to find you :D)

I'm right behind you

Alkaizer Augustus
Veiled Intent
#16 - 2014-02-07 20:26:36 UTC
The Venture is the way to go if you are solo. It's super cheap, so your risk to return is super high.

One thing I'll add is never underestimate the unlimited patience most wormhole hunters possess. A few months back, we had someone camp a Legion on us in our system for the better part of a week looking for the right opportunity to show itself. He'd log in and see what was happening, then log back out. It was a cat and mouse game for days until we were able to flush him out with the right bait and get him.

I too want to see more people come into wormhole space. Find a good organization to join and embrace the full experience. I know many people who were straight industrial types who now have a taste for PVP out here.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#17 - 2014-02-07 21:11:10 UTC
Nightingale Actault wrote:
This is referred to as yield tanking and as long as you end with positive cash flow you're in good shape.


Nightingale Actault wrote:
... yield tanking ...


This is the ideal approach to any sort of wh-pve.
Allna
Aim High
SWAG Co
#18 - 2014-02-07 21:18:49 UTC
Alkaizer Augustus wrote:

I too want to see more people come into wormhole space. Find a good organization to join and embrace the full experience. I know many people who were straight industrial types who now have a taste for PVP out here.


Reformed industrialists in w-space are some of the most bloodthirsty pilots I've seen.

I agree though, find a group of like-minded w-space people to join up with. If you're *really* intent on living the solo life, you just have to be prepared for death, solo life comes with its consequences, especially when its an industrial life. That risk can be mitigated with alts as has been mentioned, but you can only do so much with one brain and two hands.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#19 - 2014-02-07 21:19:02 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:


[Venture, Venture fit]

Mining Laser Upgrade II

Limited 1MN Afterburner I
Upgraded 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Small Shield Extender II

Miner II
Miner II
Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I

Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Always have a probe launcher - swap the Mining Laser Upgrade for T2 warp core stab for survivability

I'm right behind you

TXG SYNC
Dad Jokes R Us
#20 - 2014-02-07 22:09:12 UTC  |  Edited by: TXG SYNC
Alundil wrote:
Always have a probe launcher - swap the Mining Laser Upgrade for T2 warp core stab for survivability


The Mobile Depot has radically changed the relevance of this advice. Preparation is key. Store a Mobile Depot and the probe launcher + probes in your cargo hold.

Best advice: suck gas, not rocks. It's typically far more profitable in W-space. The Venture is exceptionally good at it (better than any other ship in the game). Additionally, because the radius of gas is HUGE, you can set an "orbit" distance of 500-1000m, and in a fit like below anything cloaky is going to have a really, really difficult time getting in scram range and holding. We refer to Ventures fit this way as "slippery as hell"; you can only catch them with a dual scram (even if they use a 3-point faction scram!), and it takes some careful preparation and good pilot skill to do so.

Of course, a HIC or Dictor plus an interceptor is the right response to this fit. But an overheated MWD on this Venture will burn out of a bubble at 4,000m/sec; if you don't catch them within 10 seconds of landing, you ain't catching them. The moment you see anything decloak or on D-scan, warp out to the safe spot you set up when you came in-system, cloak, and go AFK for 15-30 minutes (you made a safe spot before coming in, right?). You'll almost certainly be in warp before they can land tackle after your decloak delay (sub-4s alignment times rock). If they bring a HIC, overheat the prop mod and try to GTFO. If they bring an interceptor, he will need dual scrams to tackle you. If they get you after all, give them a "GF" in local before your pod explodes.

Catching Ventures that prepare properly is really, really hard.

Cargo hold: mobile depot, core probe launcher + probes, spare drones. Note you won't be able to fit the mobile depot plus anything useful without rigging or a cargo expander in the lows; the fit below gives you JUST enough room for that mobile depot, launcher, and probes. The cloak is just way too useful to do without! I much prefer scanning in a "real" scanning boat (T1 frigate with a cloak), not trying to scan in my Venture (no bonuses), but if you need to scan your way out after the PvPers roll the hole to trap you, it's useful.

Beside your computer: a timer set to 17 minutes (so you can ninja gas and give yourself a little spare room to get out before the site spawns).

I got my start in Ventures in wormholes. You can make a surprising amount of cash as a newbie, particularly if you're willing to "venture" into C4-C6 space and go for that sweet, sweet 3-digit gas. A million ISK a minute, easily.

Fit:

[Venture, Wormhole]

Warp Core Stabilizer I

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Residual Survey Scanner I
Medium Shield Extender II

Gas Cloud Harvester II
Gas Cloud Harvester II
Prototype Cloaking Device I

Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Small Cargohold Optimization I
Small Low Friction Nozzle Joints I


Hornet EC-300 x2
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