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[Rubicon 1.3] Drone Assist change

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Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#761 - 2014-02-07 14:51:03 UTC
Didn't whyso just get :commissared: for not doing anything in the war? Less than shocking that a non-participant would not understand the strategic realities of the war he isn't fighting.

Sputtering Grath rage is hilarious, just like with tracking titans. When someone with one of the greatest understandings of combat mechanics in the game can only come up with impotent rage and incoherent slippery slopes, you know it was bullshit.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#762 - 2014-02-07 14:52:11 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Read: Make it so that goons win every time.


We won the war even with the current mechanics.

No. No you didn't. This war is still very much on. Whats going to happen now is the CFC is going to sit and ship spin and blue ball every chance they get until eventually your pet dev's give you exactly what you've been crying for since the start of this year.

Then you'll come out and fight.

Hahahaha are you for real.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dave Stark
#763 - 2014-02-07 14:55:25 UTC
Deckard Stern wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Deckard Stern wrote:
Padanemi wrote:
Seems legit.

Will you also limit the number of people that receive a target broadcast in fleet to 10?


That's such a horrendously awful idea I can't even wrap my head around it.

What is the point of a fleet in the far future whose broadcasts don't go to everyone? What even is that? Are we communicating through cups and string? Morse code with the running lights? I just don't even.


so why aren't broadcasts going to all of the drones?

what are we communicating through? cups an string?


Here's the thing, your drones are not receiving broadcasts. Your drones are exactly that - mindless machines who receive orders. Pilots receive broadcasts, drones don't.


yeah and? if my mindless machine of a ship can receive a broadcast, so can my drones.
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#764 - 2014-02-07 15:20:03 UTC
Xython wrote:
Holy christ, every single time this happens, it's always the same pattern.

1. Bad players (BOB's remnants and decendants, usually) find an exploit that gives them supremacy.
2. The saner heads in the group point out it's an exploit or at the very least, overpowered
3. Bad posters and sockpuppets explain how it's totally not an exploit and that the CFC is just bad
4. The CFC either finds a way to defeat the exploit, or starts using it themselves to force CCP to fix it
5. CCP fixes it, usually about 6 months too late
6. 100 page threadnought with all kinds of buttmad sockpuppets, idiots missing the point of the change, people who have obviously never played the game in a PVP situation suggesting asinine mechnics changes to "spite" PVPers, morons who have never been to nullsec, et cetera et cetera.

Every. Single. Time.

But man, it's fun to watch all the buttmad pubbies and N3 sockpuppets in this thread crying. I especially liked the guy bitching that he can't PVP while in another room watching a movie now, that was great. :)


I wondered who would be the first utter knobjockey to invoke BOBwin's law.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#765 - 2014-02-07 15:41:16 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Read: Make it so that goons win every time.


We won the war even with the current mechanics.

No. No you didn't. This war is still very much on. Whats going to happen now is the CFC is going to sit and ship spin and blue ball every chance they get until eventually your pet dev's give you exactly what you've been crying for since the start of this year.

Then you'll come out and fight.

Hahahaha are you for real.


I thought the rus rus block was taking n3 space not cfc.

or is the rus rus now officially in the cfc.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Celly S
Neutin Local LLC
#766 - 2014-02-07 15:47:39 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
it still makes no sense .. how a ship can control more drones than its bandwidth allows which surely makes drone assist a ridiculous mechanic does it not???



"I" have always thought that when you assign your drones to assist someone else, your system's electronics monitor the actions of that person's weapon systems and direct your drones according to the actions of the person you've assigned them to.

I view this in much the same way as I feel that your systems monitor the damage another player is taking and signal your drones to react accordingly when you tell your drones to "guard" another player.

This is easily explained by fleet linking of the individual ship's systems that allow for the fleet warp, watch-list and broadcasting systems, so in reality, one ship is not controlling more drones than it has the capability to control, rather, it's sending a signal to the fleet comms system interlinking each ship in the fleet that allows the drones of other vessels to act/react in the manner prescribed by their pilot's commands.

of course, I could be wrong and if so, that's no problem, it's just how it seems to me.

o/
Celly Smunt

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#767 - 2014-02-07 15:55:06 UTC
Just to make it clear, not all of the people on this side of the killboard are whining about this change. I definitely think this is a positive, perhaps even necessary change to current game mechanics. I for one am pretty tired of the endless drone assist fleets and losing ships to 4 second perfect drone alpha from 200 dudes. Maybe I can even fly logistics/recons/dictors again without instantly dying to sentries.

If this change affects "one side" more than another, so be it; that's how balancing in eve has always worked and hopefully continue to work in the future.



Quote:
Holy christ, every single time this happens, it's always the same pattern.

1. Bad players (BOB's remnants and decendants, usually) find an exploit that gives them supremacy.
2. The saner heads in the group point out it's an exploit or at the very least, overpowered
3. Bad posters and sockpuppets explain how it's totally not an exploit and that the CFC is just bad
4. The CFC either finds a way to defeat the exploit, or starts using it themselves to force CCP to fix it
5. CCP fixes it, usually about 6 months too late
6. 100 page threadnought with all kinds of buttmad sockpuppets, idiots missing the point of the change, people who have obviously never played the game in a PVP situation suggesting asinine mechnics changes to "spite" PVPers, morons who have never been to nullsec, et cetera et cetera.


This quote, however, is pretty hilarious. The concept of relying on CCP to alter the game around your playstyle if you are incapable of finding solutions to your problems is one thing, but reveling in the lack of innovative thinking by your leadership and theorycrafters in finding new uses of existing game mechanics in order to implement them in your fleets is something even better.

The suppressed BoB tears from years ago is pretty funny as well, especially considering that CFC have themselves turned into something with a heck of a lot of similarities to BoB, except that CFC has actually succeeded where the rest have mostly failed.
Llyona
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#768 - 2014-02-07 16:14:12 UTC
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Hey guys, we here at CCP feel we need to buff drone boats so that they're used as mainline combat ships


Three months later....


OH GOD YOU'RE USING DRONES AS MAINLINE COMBAT SHIPS

perhaps adding a drone bay to every ship in the game was the unwise choice people screamed in their face when they started to redo things.


Problem is its drones or nothing right now for sov warfare. Do you really want to spend the rest of your time playing EVE in one or two pretty dull doctrines?


Funny, I seem to recall being in a recent defense fleet that involved BL using 80+ Maels. They ended up killing 3 PL/N3 carriers. Sure, it was mostly due to pilot stupidity (eg. One Thanny pilot decided to stay travel fit, the fact the rest of the fleet was composed of Archons and a token Nid, which came in late.)

So according to you, that BL mael fleet not only didn't happen, it wasn't successful either because it wasn't a drone boat.

EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#769 - 2014-02-07 16:26:24 UTC
guys if you want to talk politik please do it in CAOD or reddit or something... can we keep this thread strictly to Drone assist changes and moreover tidi and lag...

not we are better no we are better...

as it makes decent ideas get lost in the fluff

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Aaliyah Tash-Murkon
#770 - 2014-02-07 16:47:05 UTC
Peter Francisco wrote:
[quote=CCP Rise]
What I find ironic is that the Dominix will end up being a casualty of the CFC meta game strategy to counter the wrecking ball - which is now pointless, as the CFC finally realized they can counter it with a larger group of titans plus a couple thousand players generating enough lag to make all other ships nearly irrelevant - anything with five drones, assisted or not, will do the job nicely.


lmfao the lag came from the 1000 and 1000 T1 drones the wrecking ball dropped and abandonned not the titans or the other cfc that were wrecking your balls

lets all calm down the tears and lets get on with it

also carriers shouldnt be able to assist drones

CCP fix the fighters on carriers so they do dmg to other capitals and buff it
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#771 - 2014-02-07 16:52:18 UTC
Aaliyah Tash-Murkon wrote:
CCP fix the fighters on carriers so they do dmg to other capitals and buff it


Fighters should be good for Bs and up.

The problem is how do you buff fighters that A. dont over power super carriers and B. dont overpower carriers against sub caps.

A good place to start is why fighters are bad.

is it thier low dps

is it thier low speed

is it thier low ehp

is it that they die easy to counters like smart bombs and regular bombs?



I think once we adress where exactly the fighter is lacking then we can start to come up with ideas that will boost them...

one idea is if you simply make the damage application and ehp better could make fighters worth using. a way to make them not op on super carriers could be something as simple as what they did to titan tracking i.e. if a super carrier uses fighters then the tracking on a fighter is halfed.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Xeris 7
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#772 - 2014-02-07 16:58:32 UTC
To bad cloaky afk camping dose not tax the servers. Maybe then you would fix that.
Dave Stark
#773 - 2014-02-07 17:04:39 UTC
Xeris 7 wrote:
To bad cloaky afk camping dose not tax the servers. Maybe then you would fix that.


this is a feedback thread, not a tear bucket.
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#774 - 2014-02-07 17:18:30 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Xeris 7 wrote:
To bad cloaky afk camping dose not tax the servers. Maybe then you would fix that.


this is a feedback thread, not a tear bucket.


nullbear gonna nullbear
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#775 - 2014-02-07 17:19:11 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Xeris 7 wrote:
To bad cloaky afk camping dose not tax the servers. Maybe then you would fix that.


this is a feedback thread, not a tear bucket.


Why not both?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#776 - 2014-02-07 17:22:29 UTC
Is the 50-drone limit along established drone capacity and bandwidth limits for ship class? I suggest using a drone capacity/bandwidth-based number versus right out using a 50-drone limit:
50 x 25 m3 = 1250 m3

1250 m3 Drone Assist Bandwidth. Yes?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#777 - 2014-02-07 17:23:19 UTC
DetKhord Saisio wrote:
Is the 50-drone limit along established drone capacity and bandwidth limits for ship class? I suggest using a drone capacity/bandwidth-based number versus right out using a 50-drone limit:
50 x 25 m3 = 1250 m3

1250 m3 Drone Assist Bandwidth. Yes?


yes this has been suggested in the thread before and tbh is the best solution...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Victor Rive
Magical Unicorn and Friends
#778 - 2014-02-07 17:32:06 UTC
lol bye cfc domi fleets :D hopefully my drones will now respond in wrecking ball fleets
LtauSTinpoWErs
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#779 - 2014-02-07 17:56:54 UTC
seems like an overall good change to me
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#780 - 2014-02-07 18:47:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Falin Whalen
This change does nothing meanigful really to drone assist doctrines. It maybe fuzzes the amount of damage landing at once, by making more people have to lock up one target and hit F1 at the same time, but that is about it really.

The "fix" doesn't really fix anything. You can still flood the grid with drones and still achieve the same results as now, but with just one extra hoop to jump through. Now if ships had an assist bandwith, that idea has promise, and might actually help solve the drone assist debacle.

The thing is, even that doesn't solve the main problem in that drones are basically minature ships acording to the server. They have to be tracked, moved, possitions plotted, and all the rest of the calculations that happen with ships on a grid, have to also be calculated for each single drone as well.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz KafkaÂ