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[Rubicon 1.3] Drone Assist change

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Author
Charadrass
Angry Germans
#441 - 2014-02-06 19:03:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Charadrass
don't know if that was posted yet, but
if you limit the assist by bandwidth and not by count, that would be much better.

ie. 1000 mbit maximum assistable bandwidth.
will say: you can assign an maximum of 1000 mbit in drone capacity to one pilot.

that will be 200 light drones

OR

100 medium drones

OR

40 heavy drones / sentrys

in total assignable to one pilot



problem solved for the incursioneers and the slowcat threat is gone.
please consider this suggestion before patching ccp.
Ray Drosophile
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#442 - 2014-02-06 19:04:12 UTC
Sheeana Harb wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

We believe a flat cap will:

  • Limit large scale assist substantially
  • Leave room for smaller scale assisting (there are several use-cases for assist that we wanted to preserve, such as incursion drone managers)
  • Be very easy to communicate to players
  • Affect carriers more heavily than sub-caps (because they can field 10 drones per ship rather than 5)
  • and will make further adjustments.

    As an active incursion runner I strongly believe this change will (negatively) affect incursions as it's not uncommon to see more than 70 drones(small and medium) at a single site.
    On the other hand, heavy drones and sentries aren't used due to their slow dps application(heavies) or the need to keep moving(sentries).

    Is it possible to have separate caps for sentries and small/medium drones? The current 50 for sentries and let's say 100 for small/medium drones?


    +1
    Prie Mary
    Science and Trade Institute
    Caldari State
    #443 - 2014-02-06 19:04:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Prie Mary
    Maybe an oversight by CCP.

    This is also a NERF to incursions, be it intentional or accidental.

    p.s

    STOP WASTING MONEY ON STUPID MONUMENTS AND BALLOONS AND FIX YOUR NETCODE/SERVERS

    p.s.s

    OH AND THE DIRECT X 11 ISSUES

    p.s.s.s

    OH AND THE SOCKEt CLOSED/RUNTIME ERRORS

    Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...

    Pinky Hops
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #444 - 2014-02-06 19:04:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
    Xython wrote:
    Holy christ, every single time this happens, it's always the same pattern.

    1. Bad players (BOB's remnants and decendants, usually) find an exploit that gives them supremacy.
    2. The saner heads in the group point out it's an exploit or at the very least, overpowered
    3. Bad posters and sockpuppets explain how it's totally not an exploit and that the CFC is just bad
    4. The CFC either finds a way to defeat the exploit, or starts using it themselves to force CCP to fix it
    5. CCP fixes it, usually about 6 months too late
    6. 100 page threadnought with all kinds of buttmad sockpuppets, idiots missing the point of the change, people who have obviously never played the game in a PVP situation suggesting asinine mechnics changes to "spite" PVPers, morons who have never been to nullsec, et cetera et cetera.

    Every. Single. Time.

    But man, it's fun to watch all the buttmad pubbies and N3 sockpuppets in this thread crying. I especially liked the guy bitching that he can't PVP while in another room watching a movie now, that was great. :)


    Why do people keep pathetically attempting to dramatize this issue?

    This has nothing to do with all the random entities you just brought up.

    It's a balance change - it will be happening on Serenity as well, where I am sure their players use/abuse the same tactics despite none of the entities you mentioned existing there.

    If CFC stopped existing altogether, and BoB, N3, and all the other random irrelevant groups you mentioned, this balance change still would have happened.
    Olixia Castitatis
    Beyond Divinity Inc
    Shadow Cartel
    #445 - 2014-02-06 19:05:14 UTC
    Have you considered allowing players to assign drones up to the target's max drone bandwidth? This way incursion runners can still stack lights/mediums on one player (up to a large number). You would be able to assign less larger drones and more small drones.

    This would stop ****** results like an interceptor with 100 drones assigned to it, while allowing dedicated drone ships with high bandwidth to still serve the drone bunny role. You could also change the stats of some of the drone ships to increase their bandwidth above the usual maximum of 125.

    I think this is a better solution than just having a max 50 assigned.
    Charadrass
    Angry Germans
    #446 - 2014-02-06 19:06:12 UTC
    Olixia Castitatis wrote:
    Have you considered allowing players to assign drones up to the target's max drone bandwidth? This way incursion runners can still stack lights/mediums on one player (up to a large number). You would be able to assign less larger drones and more small drones.

    This would stop ****** results like an interceptor with 100 drones assigned to it, while allowing dedicated drone ships with high bandwidth to still serve the drone bunny role. You could also change the stats of some of the drone ships to increase their bandwidth above the usual maximum of 125.

    I think this is a better solution than just having a max 50 assigned.


    too late :) but good others came to the same conclusion.
    baltec1
    Bat Country
    Pandemic Horde
    #447 - 2014-02-06 19:06:23 UTC
    MeBiatch wrote:


    never understood this perfect alpha garbage...

    since when did drones not use the chance to hit formula?


    Its the fact they they will all shoot at exactly the same second which is something no other fleet can manage.
    Ab'del Abu
    Atlantis Ascendant
    #448 - 2014-02-06 19:06:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ab'del Abu
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Quote:
    Please clarify yourself here. What do you mean "if this doesn't work" ?


    I can't put a number on it, but currently Dominixes are responsible for somewhere in the ballpark of 5 times the PVP damage dealt of the next most popular fleet battleship, if that's still the case in a few months this will have 'not worked'.


    mittens tells his 50k+ minions to abuse some mechanic... cfc adversaries aren't happy about that, ccp isn't, hell even mitten's minions aren't. eventually, ccp comes around and does the cfc's bidding - behaving much like parents who rather shut their little brats up by means of giving them what they want instead of disciplining them. I wonder what's up next - it's not like there are many things left that would give a smaller, better equipped force an advantage over sheer numbers.

    if this really was about domis, why design this nerf in a way that would hurt carriers the most? ^^

    edit: not like I care. this pattern of ccp is most disturbing though
    Silivar Karkun
    Doomheim
    #449 - 2014-02-06 19:06:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Silivar Karkun
    wouldnt it make more sense to make the amount of asisted drones depend on the ship's bandwidth?.....i mean if i have a ship that has 125 bandwidth, and another that has more than that.....it doesnt matter if i send sentries or scout drones, the asisted ship will be capped at that amount and will only be able to control that maximum of drones.......

    basically you're using your carrier or other ship to "share bandwidth" to the asisted player, but that bandwidth can only be equal to that of the asisted ship........this means that if a carrier asists another carrier, it could send all its drones for example, but if its an small frigate of 25 bandwitdh, you'll only be able to lend it 5 light drones........

    i dont know what you guys think......
    Olixia Castitatis
    Beyond Divinity Inc
    Shadow Cartel
    #450 - 2014-02-06 19:07:51 UTC
    Charadrass wrote:
    Olixia Castitatis wrote:
    Have you considered allowing players to assign drones up to the target's max drone bandwidth? This way incursion runners can still stack lights/mediums on one player (up to a large number). You would be able to assign less larger drones and more small drones.

    This would stop ****** results like an interceptor with 100 drones assigned to it, while allowing dedicated drone ships with high bandwidth to still serve the drone bunny role. You could also change the stats of some of the drone ships to increase their bandwidth above the usual maximum of 125.

    I think this is a better solution than just having a max 50 assigned.


    too late :) but good others came to the same conclusion.


    Ah, you got in just before!

    But yeah, I think this works best.
    I Love Boobies
    All Hail Boobies
    #451 - 2014-02-06 19:08:01 UTC
    Ivana Twinkle wrote:
    Rosie O'Sullivan wrote:
    This is sooo crazy. Like I never saw anyone use drone assist, not even once. Now ccp comes along and bans it just because some scammers complain? this is like the worst decision ccp ever made. I guess the goons must buy a lot of plex so ccp is kinda held hostage.


    Your comment indicate you never left High or Low sec, because the sentry assist doesn't work there due to ~crimewatch~



    I can assure you that drone assist does work in high sec, even with green crimewatch. I use it every day in missions.
    Charadrass
    Angry Germans
    #452 - 2014-02-06 19:09:07 UTC
    Silivar Karkun wrote:
    wouldnt it make more sense to make the amount of asisted drones depend on the ship's bandwidth?.....i mean if i have a ship that has 125 bandwidth, and another that has more than that.....it doesnt matter if i send sentries or scout drones, the asisted ship will be capped at that amount and will only be able to control that maximum of drones.......

    basically you're using your carrier or other ship to "share bandwidth" to the asisted player, but that bandwidth can only be equal to that of the asisted ship........this means that if a carrier asists another carrier, it could send all its drones for example, but if its an small frigate of 25 bandwitdh, you'll only be able to lend it 5 light drones........

    i dont know what you guys think......


    makes no sense since there are fleets who assist drones not only to droneships.
    GRIEV3R
    Ranger Corp
    Vae. Victis.
    #453 - 2014-02-06 19:11:48 UTC
    I like this change. It's definitely a big step in the right direction. My own opinion is that all drone assist should be eliminated entirely. I know there are drawbacks to that, but in my opinion, the drawbacks are outweighed by the benefits.

    That said, it's important to emphasize that this is an excellent change, regardless. Thank you based CCP!
    BoomBoss
    KarmaFleet
    Goonswarm Federation
    #454 - 2014-02-06 19:11:51 UTC
    Xython wrote:
    BoomBoss wrote:
    Venetian Tar wrote:
    BoomBoss wrote:
    So, goons cry they are unable to counter an established slowcat fleet and you just say; "Ok, we go nerf it then". Are you f*cking serious?

    It just so happens that whatever the CFC wants, or whatever the biggest coalition is at that time, you give them. History (bpo's) repeating itself again?


    We won the war and even abused the **** out of it ourselves before these changes were announced, but keep crying about it.


    You haven't won the war, it isn't over yet. There was just a loss of a lot of shiny boats and we lose a region. Big f*cking deal!


    Three regions, at least, and that's assuming you don't fail cascade over getting your big shiny toys taken away. But lets not quibble, the important thing to remember is that N3 is terrible at EVE.



    3 regions my ass. You took a few systems in Immensea and that was pretty much it. Feyth never counted.
    Kranyoldlady
    Women's cave
    #455 - 2014-02-06 19:12:24 UTC
    Incursionsrunner here.

    In a hq fleet we normally have vindi's as dronebunny
    That said, its 1 vindi for DDD and the rest shoots whatever the need to shoot.

    Some numbers:

    HQ = 40 people - 10 logi= 30 dps- 1 DDD is 29 dps for the fleet, inportant number when contesting. Effectively using 145 drones for dps.


    your idea:

    HQ = 40 people-10 logi =30 dps - 3 dps for DDD = 27 dps for the fleet. Again efectively using 145 drones for dps


    Imo this does change things alot.
    The fc lost 2 dps for the fleet since they get a new role.
    The inplementation in the fleet among 40 people is going to be a hassle to put it mildly.

    Silivar Karkun
    Doomheim
    #456 - 2014-02-06 19:14:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Silivar Karkun
    Charadrass wrote:
    Silivar Karkun wrote:
    wouldnt it make more sense to make the amount of asisted drones depend on the ship's bandwidth?.....i mean if i have a ship that has 125 bandwidth, and another that has more than that.....it doesnt matter if i send sentries or scout drones, the asisted ship will be capped at that amount and will only be able to control that maximum of drones.......

    basically you're using your carrier or other ship to "share bandwidth" to the asisted player, but that bandwidth can only be equal to that of the asisted ship........this means that if a carrier asists another carrier, it could send all its drones for example, but if its an small frigate of 25 bandwitdh, you'll only be able to lend it 5 light drones........

    i dont know what you guys think......


    makes no sense since there are fleets who assist drones not only to droneships.


    **** this forum it always deletes my drafts........sorry:

    make the asisted thing depend on both the bandwidth of the lending ship and the asisted ship/structure. i mean:

    1. if you're gonna assist an structure (outpost, starbase, deployable, whatever): the amount of drones assisted depend on the lending ship's bandwidth

    2. if you're gonna assists another ship: the amount of drones assisting depend on the other ship's own bandwidth......
    Llyona
    Lazerhawks
    L A Z E R H A W K S
    #457 - 2014-02-06 19:16:08 UTC
    MeBiatch wrote:
    Llyona wrote:
    Kappy Ukap wrote:

    Server side:
    Anyhow tbh making the server more powerful would be an option but can CCP do that with how much it could cost?


    It's not a matter of cost, but possibility. CCP is already using the best servers money can buy. The "next gen" server platforms just haven't come out yet.


    and yet still use single core processing...

    its 2014 not 2003... eve code needs a complete re-write from scratch... it might take several years but should be a priority just like crimewatch rewrite was.


    Yes. This a limitation in Python and I agree, it's about time CCP started using a big boy language.

    EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure.

    Borachon
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #458 - 2014-02-06 19:16:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Borachon
    Elise Randolph wrote:

    If you truly want to nerf drone usage, then look at what makes them overpowered. Omnidirectionals are going to become scripted, but that doesn't solve the problem either. What about having Omnidirectionals, Drone Damage Amps, and Drone Links STACK with one another so you can't get absurd tracking, damage, AND range simultaneously?


    Stacking these better is important, but I think a lot of people are missing the combined impacts of this change and the omni nerf, specifically the pressure it places on mid-slots:

    • The omni nerf means drone assist ships have to fly with more mid-slots dedicated to tracking/range to get the same effect as before. CFC boots, for example, have moved from 2 omnis in their fits up to 3 or 4 as a result of this. This has hurt their cap stability somewhat already.
    • With per-squad drone triggers as opposed to per-fleet drone triggers, you'll need to burn significant numbers of mid-slots in every squad to protect/buff its drone trigger. In a boot fleet of 125, you go from 6-8 midslots in the fleet for RSEBO/RECCM for boosting the drone trigger to 150-200 (6-8 per squad of 5!) for the same effect.


    The combined impact of these changes are that drone assist comps will have to much more carefully weigh ECCM/lock time/tracking/range tradeoffs than before. That's a really big change.
    Rhes
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #459 - 2014-02-06 19:16:51 UTC
    BoomBoss wrote:
    3 regions my ass. You took a few systems in Immensea and that was pretty much it. Feyth never counted.

    Resetting the goalposts while you're backpedaling so fast must be awkward.

    EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise

    Kasune
    Imperial Shipment
    Amarr Empire
    #460 - 2014-02-06 19:17:22 UTC
    One thing that I thought would be a bit more "realistic" is that the type of drone you field, can be assisted to a specific type of ship.

    Say light/Medium drones - Up to cruisers. Sentrys Heavys - Battlecruiser (or maybe battleship) and to titans.

    In my opinion it would be a bit more logical, as a frigate shouldn't have the cabability to put out the needed instructions for something of almost the same size...

    Or something like that, myabe