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Missions & Complexes

 
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Very serious danger for all people who like to do missions in faction ships

First post
Author
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
#201 - 2014-02-05 13:56:39 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:

I've never understood why people are like "OMG TAILOR YOUR TANK!!!" when doing so slows down the whole process. It's especially true when I run batches at a time. An omni tank can work just fine..


The Omni tanks works fine, but it provides weaker resists and takes up extra slots compared to a tailored one. It's arguably worse on an armor tank, which looses out on damage mods, but can also slow you down if you're forced to warp out when you could have just spec'd for the damage.

You're at the station anyways, why not spend the extra 10 seconds changing the loadout?
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#202 - 2014-02-05 18:04:05 UTC
Ninja Salvaging as a profession: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ninja_Salvaging You do not own the mission site. That is like saying the U.S. Military owns Afghanistan because we are conducting missions there. You are in local space that is owned by a faction. That faction owns the space. The agent provides you with a mission objective that you must complete. You have to complete those objectives by defeating the npc rats and any other factors that prevent you from accomplishing your objective. It doesn't matter that the mission site is spawned upon accepting it. You want to do missions and not be harrassed, go to WoW.

The mission "invaders" are not scanning down the mission site, they are scanning you down. They do not know you are in a mission site. For all they know you could be in a deep safe. They will not know what you are doing until they warp to you.

BTW, the reason there is an increase in mission "invaders" is due to the fact that carebears screamed for an easier way to scan. CCP delivered, and now anybody with about a week of training can scan down ships; whereas before it took some actual skill.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#203 - 2014-02-05 18:43:47 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Ninja Salvaging as a profession: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ninja_Salvaging You do not own the mission site. That is like saying the U.S. Military owns Afghanistan because we are conducting missions there. You are in local space that is owned by a faction. That faction owns the space. The agent provides you with a mission objective that you must complete. You have to complete those objectives by defeating the npc rats and any other factors that prevent you from accomplishing your objective. It doesn't matter that the mission site is spawned upon accepting it. You want to do missions and not be harrassed, go to WoW.

The mission "invaders" are not scanning down the mission site, they are scanning you down. They do not know you are in a mission site. For all they know you could be in a deep safe. They will not know what you are doing until they warp to you.

BTW, the reason there is an increase in mission "invaders" is due to the fact that carebears screamed for an easier way to scan. CCP delivered, and now anybody with about a week of training can scan down ships; whereas before it took some actual skill.

I think the problem here is you are talking about current mechanics and the proposal is taking about possible NEW mechanics.

And the ship in a deep safe would not subject an invader to the proposed aggression mechanic since he/she is not in a mission deadspace pocket.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#204 - 2014-02-05 18:59:27 UTC
Then make the proposal in the appropriate forum. And the deep safe could be subject if he had a mobile depot deployed, because then I could attack the mobile depot and he would have to make the decison to shoot back or scoop it up. I could also warp a fleet of gankers to the location and perform the same activity that is being done in mission sites.
Haraukiae Youik
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#205 - 2014-02-05 19:07:59 UTC
CCP has consistently changed the nature of the game such that it is now gank everywhere all the time.


The game is now a gank game as nul sec (having taken over everything else) with the cooperation/instigation of CCP seeks new soft targets.

I was curious over the new influx of players and found that there are sales everywhere.


CCP cannot retain players; those that it does only PLEX so there is nothing to the bottom line.


New player in chat: "There isn't much to do"


Another player replied "I'd give it a 4 out of 10 for an old game."


That's the story everyone. Game dying at the hands of CCP.


I'm out in a month. Big smile
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#206 - 2014-02-05 19:09:22 UTC
Haraukiae Youik wrote:
CCP has consistently changed the nature of the game such that it is now gank everywhere all the time.


The game is now a gank game as nul sec (having taken over everything else) with the cooperation/instigation of CCP seeks new soft targets.

I was curious over the new influx of players and found that there are sales everywhere.


CCP cannot retain players; those that it does only PLEX so there is nothing to the bottom line.


New player in chat: "There isn't much to do"


Another player replied "I'd give it a 4 out of 10 for an old game."


That's the story everyone. Game dying at the hands of CCP.


I'm out in a month. Big smile


Good. Can I haz ur stuff?
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#207 - 2014-02-05 22:08:09 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Ninja Salvaging as a profession: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ninja_Salvaging You do not own the mission site. That is like saying the U.S. Military owns Afghanistan because we are conducting missions there. You are in local space that is owned by a faction. That faction owns the space. The agent provides you with a mission objective that you must complete. You have to complete those objectives by defeating the npc rats and any other factors that prevent you from accomplishing your objective. It doesn't matter that the mission site is spawned upon accepting it. You want to do missions and not be harrassed, go to WoW.

The mission "invaders" are not scanning down the mission site, they are scanning you down. They do not know you are in a mission site. For all they know you could be in a deep safe. They will not know what you are doing until they warp to you.

BTW, the reason there is an increase in mission "invaders" is due to the fact that carebears screamed for an easier way to scan. CCP delivered, and now anybody with about a week of training can scan down ships; whereas before it took some actual skill.

I think the problem here is you are talking about current mechanics and the proposal is taking about possible NEW mechanics.

And the ship in a deep safe would not subject an invader to the proposed aggression mechanic since he/she is not in a mission deadspace pocket.

Not to mention that Evelopedia page was created by a player, it's not an Official CCP created page thus it doesn't provide any proof that Ninja Salvaging is endorsed and advertised as an Official Career Path.

And the analogy about the Military not owning territory in foreign countries fails since Embassies and Consulates are 'owned' by their respective Governments, regardless of the country in which they are located. Invading and attacking those is an act of war. Same goes for the Diplomatic Motorcades that are en-route.

DMC
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#208 - 2014-02-05 23:56:21 UTC
Haraukiae Youik wrote:

I'm out in a month. Big smile


“You can please some of the people some of the time all of the people some of the time some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time.”
― Abraham Lincoln

This is very true in this case. You can't make a game where everyone is happy. A change that will make me happy is likely to upset another player. Eve is not for everyone nor can it be made for everyone. If it's not a game you like by all means don't waste $15 a month so you can post in the forms. If you're quiting over gankers Eve was never the game for you.

As for the "Game dying" not anytime soon. I've been playing since 2009 and the numbers of players online seem to have gone up since then.

PVP in Eve has always been about ganking and rarely about any kind of "Fair combat". I learned this really quick as a new player and of course I was upset! I felt the game was so unfair that a year old player could pwn me and I would be helpless to do anything. I realized that's how the game works so I adapted, I stopped trying to solo Eve and got with some friends. I became a lot more powerful as part of the gank rather than a victim of the gank. When I say "gank" I'm not referring specifically to suicide ganking but rather the power you have in numbers.

Does CCP do stuff to make me rage?... Sure they do! Right off the top of my head the recent drone nerfs in the 1.1 patch... Am I going to cry on the forums about it? Sure am! Am I going to rage quit or threaten to?... Not likely!

Yes I feel CCP could make some better decisions but they have to take everything in perspective. Just because I'm raging about the 1.1 nerf that doesn't mean CCP is going to be like "Oh no we have to fix this!". Now CCP Fozzie if you want to do that I won't be upset Blink


Edit: Can I have your stuff? Lol
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2014-02-06 02:19:17 UTC
Haraukiae Youik wrote:


CCP cannot retain players; those that it does only PLEX so there is nothing to the bottom line.



You clearly do not understand PLEX. CCP makes more money from PLEX than regular subscriptions.
Evilishah
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#210 - 2014-02-06 03:12:51 UTC
The fact that salvage works as it currently does is an implicit endorsement. You shouldn't be asking for proof that it is working as intended, you should be posting proof that it isn't.

I also think the complaints are insane. High sec (especially missions) is some of the single best risk vs reward in the game. There is virtually no risk short of flying a ship worth so much money that you could probably talk half of the people who ***** about how risky high sec is into grouping up for a suicide fleet just to kill it. 5 billion in one ship? Are you ******* kidding me? If you could broadcast the system that one ship was in, it would be the single most popular system in the game until someone was able to pop it... 5 ******* billion.

I think the only fair thing if you all were really interested in removing the risk from high sec, then the rewards should be taken from it. Make high sec the least profitable of the 4 systems.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#211 - 2014-02-06 03:48:55 UTC
Evilishah wrote:
The fact that salvage works as it currently does is an implicit endorsement. You shouldn't be asking for proof that it is working as intended, you should be posting proof that it isn't.

It's a game! Notoriously short of definitions and rules Game! Implied, interpreted or probable definitions of what is considered fair or reasonable in a game that is tailored and defined by the group playing it, this is a recipe ripe for corruption since the group that earns the most from ganking gets to make the most ISK with the least risk.

Evilishah wrote:
I also think the complaints are insane. High sec (especially missions) is some of the single best risk vs reward in the game. There is virtually no risk short of flying a ship worth so much money that you could probably talk half of the people who ***** about how risky high sec is into grouping up for a suicide fleet just to kill it. 5 billion in one ship? Are you ******* kidding me? If you could broadcast the system that one ship was in, it would be the single most popular system in the game until someone was able to pop it... 5 ******* billion.

Seriously? 5 bil to earn 60 mil an hour (.012% return), I have seen reports of 10 mil ship making 150 mil an hour in Nul (150% return), the reason the ships are blinged up in high sec is to make as little as 1 mil more ISK per hour. Of course I can see the argument of move to Nul 'make more spend less', but perhaps they average high sec player isn't interested in the politics of Blob Capital fights and becoming a pawn in the ludicrous financing of that play style.

Evilishah wrote:
I think the only fair thing if you all were really interested in removing the risk from high sec, then the rewards should be taken from it. Make high sec the least profitable of the 4 systems.

This is to be expected in a Nerf High sec rant, but perhaps the problem in reversed, Nerf Nul it should not be possible to make 150% an hour just for showing up, after all that is your argument right, people making to much ISK?

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#212 - 2014-02-06 04:17:33 UTC
Evilishah wrote:
I think the only fair thing if you all were really interested in removing the risk from high sec, then the rewards should be taken from it. Make high sec the least profitable of the 4 systems.

Continued outrage, Still don't understand why anyone playing the game would not get that High sec is currently the lowest pay area in the game.

Consider low sec; higher bounties, higher LP pay-out, chance of T2 salvage and faction loot combined with the benefit of defending your turf, mission, loot or ego from the get go.

And Nul sec; The same and better than low sec in many aspects, same loot and salvage, high bounties and rewards for missions, same mechanics as low sec with the added advantage of a few hundred to a thousand corp members backing you up and protecting you, as they Nulbear their way to a 100 bil wallet balance (Minus taxes so someone can buy and fit a Titan to lose in a TiDi nightmare that last 10 hours).

Then High sec; Lowest mission pay, lowest LP pay-out, lowest salvage and loot value, added extreme contest of any resources from market prices to accessible Ore and Ice, oh yeah and don't forget Concord 'Reciprocity' but not 'Protection' forcing a player into waiting for an easily exploitable game mechanic to give you permission to lose your ****.

Yeah sure lets nerf high sec, or just split the game in two, so the Nulbear doesn't have to do a **** measuring competition every time he sees a high sec player's Killmail where he loses year(s) worth of hard work to 10 players with a need to pad their wallet for a weekend PVP venture.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

Evilishah
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#213 - 2014-02-06 05:30:47 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:

It's a game! Notoriously short of definitions and rules Game! Implied, interpreted or probable definitions of what is considered fair or reasonable in a game that is tailored and defined by the group playing it, this is a recipe ripe for corruption since the group that earns the most from ganking gets to make the most ISK with the least risk.


Yeah... it is a game. Designed with rules and definitions by which we all fly. One of those is that salvage can be taken by anyone. It has always been this way. I'm not saying it should be this way, I'm saying that in keeping this way (for how many years now?), it is a tacit endorsement of the status quo. I'm merely burden shifting. The burden isn't on those who want to keep salvage as is, it is on those that want to change it, and so far the only argument provided is something akin to "but, it's not fair".

Quote:
Seriously? 5 bil to earn 60 mil an hour (.012% return), I have seen reports of 10 mil ship making 150 mil an hour in Nul (150% return), the reason the ships are blinged up in high sec is to make as little as 1 mil more ISK per hour. Of course I can see the argument of move to Nul 'make more spend less', but perhaps they average high sec player isn't interested in the politics of Blob Capital fights and becoming a pawn in the ludicrous financing of that play style.


If you look closely you'll see the point whizzing past. My point is just simply that if you are going to hang out the game's largest carrot, expect some bites. The moment you undock in a 5 billion isk ship, you just became the single most profitable activity in EVE. I was simply pointing out that high sec is far from the gank fest it is being made out to be unless you are rich, dumb, or ballsy enough to undock in a 5 billion dollar ship. It becomes even more ludicrous when you realize that said ship can only marginally out perform a ship worth a fraction of its cost. That was taking a pretty asinine risk if you ask me.

Every other activity in the game comes with risk. Why should mission running be any different, especially since you can borderline do it afk with decent enough skills?

Quote:

This is to be expected in a Nerf High sec rant, but perhaps the problem in reversed, Nerf Nul it should not be possible to make 150% an hour just for showing up, after all that is your argument right, people making to much ISK?


And no, that's not my argument. My argument is that there is little enough risk in High Sec that to want to keep the same profits and remove even that tiny, tiny bit of risk is silly.

Moreover, you understate (intentionally?) the isk potential in high sec. Without a corp backing you (as the "nullbears" have), high sec is arguably the best place to make isk (as evidenced by a 5 billion pleasure boat). If you were to some how quantify the risk involved anywhere else in the game, I would argue that it becomes the single most profitable experience in EVE for a solo player.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#214 - 2014-02-06 05:55:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
Evilishah wrote:


Moreover, you understate (intentionally?) the isk potential in high sec. Without a corp backing you (as the "nullbears" have), high sec is arguably the best place to make isk (as evidenced by a 5 billion pleasure boat). If you were to some how quantify the risk involved anywhere else in the game, I would argue that it becomes the single most profitable experience in EVE for a solo player.

I consider myself to be a bit of an expert on the profits of high sec, having done mission, incursion, industry, marketing and exploration. And regardless of what you do in high sec, if your attempting to make ISK off PVE the upper limit of one man doing missions is capped at about 60mil/hr, Incursions 200 mil/hr but you need 39 friends, Industry is a laughable 20 mil/hour, the best ISK is marketing with no cap whatsoever.

Of course there are Box fleets doing 600mil in twenty minutes, and the occasional multi box mission runner making closer to 100 mil an hour. But none of these occupations make a windfall like a gank squad. And most of the mission runner I have met or worked with sometimes spend months trying to earn the ISK to upgrade one rack of low/med/high slots, just so they can finish a mission a little bit quicker or safer. that they have a 5billion ISK ship that 'Deserves to be ganked' is an opinion based on jealousy and a complete lack of understanding of what a player will do to shave a few minutes off a mission. And all that work to build a better mouse trap (5 bil pleasure boat as you call it) can be stolen with little to no tangible repercussion on the thief.

I have a thought, Concord are the police of high sec, they should be the only ones that profit from killing high sec gankers; All loot from an illegal act should be scooped and reprocessed to pay for the time and work of the eternally 'To late to matter' high sec police force. Any and all loot that drops in the area around a concord spawn including the dead gank ships should be taken and sold at police auction as ore. That would make me very happy

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#215 - 2014-02-06 06:05:11 UTC
Evilishah wrote:
high sec is arguably the best place to make isk (as evidenced by a 5 billion pleasure boat).

All evidence to the contrary, I could have sworn I just saw a couple pages of Titan kills in excess of a 100bill each, so somehow the lions share of wasted ISK in the game is spent on 10 hours of TiDi for a limited few.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#216 - 2014-02-06 06:25:30 UTC
Here lets put it in terms of work vs. reward. A player should not have to grind missions for a month to only have his stuff taken by another player that put in an hours work. The mission runner risked his time for a reward of 10 to 100 dps (tank or gank) the 'Pro ganker' risked an alts sec status (So nothing) and a pittance of ISK (nothing again) to gain billions of ISK.

Someone wanting to enjoy PVE and not ruin the day of another player is rewarded with nothing but the risk of getting his day ruined, the only real defence is to not strive for more, unless you're willing to take it from someone that earned it. I often wonder what PVP players would do if the PVE (Carebear) type just quit playing this game? Would they learn to mine, manufacture and run missions? And what would they do when someone came along and ruined their day, or more realistically years worth of hard work.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#217 - 2014-02-06 07:36:38 UTC
you do realise we are playing eve and not wow right? I think you are playing the wrong game here. as cliche as it may sound I really do think you should go try wow, or maybe hello kitty online. the way you are describing things I think that those games will be more your speed/style.

I mean im sure there is nothing wrong with you as a person but it just seems like eve is too rough and tumble type of game. again im not saying you are a girl at all, or even that being a girl in itself is wrong (i love girls, even girls love girls) just that you are more girly in the traditional sense. theres nothing technically wrong with not having any balls either, figuratively speaking that is, just that you have to realize that you dont have any so you can move on to something where you will be more comfortable with your ball-less-ness. this will have the benifit of us not having to hear you cry like the little girl you are every time a pirate gets your panties into a twist.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Evilishah
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#218 - 2014-02-06 07:51:21 UTC
But your argument is stupidly phrased because it "proves too much".

If I grant that a person just grinding isk for hours shouldn't have all of that taken away by a ganker's minutes worth of work, then I'd say that logic applies to say an explorer in null sec.

Then you'd counter with "but you are flying in null sec and are aware of the dangers."

I'd counter with "you are flying a 5 billion dollar ship in EVE and are also aware of the dangers."

Short of "it's not fair", you've not really given any reason at all for a safer high sec. It is already insanely profitable. It is the safest of all of the zones in EVE. And carebears are growing the game, not leaving it en masse (as the sky is falling crowd would lead you to believe since I started in 2003).

Here is a spreadsheet I stole off of La Nariz's siggy.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing

You know what I'm not seeing from the "buff high sec" crowd? Facts. Like I said above, the argument always 100% comes down to "but it's not fair".

And for the record, I do more PvE than PvP, and I spend more time in highsec than anywhere else (though I'm hoping to soon make a move to null).

I'm not necessarily on team "nerf highsec". I'm on team "shut the **** up about how bad you think you have it in high sec".
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#219 - 2014-02-06 11:27:14 UTC
Evilishah wrote:
You know what I'm not seeing from the "buff high sec" crowd? Facts. Like I said above, the argument always 100% comes down to "but it's not fair".

And for the record, I do more PvE than PvP, and I spend more time in highsec than anywhere else (though I'm hoping to soon make a move to null).

I'm not necessarily on team "nerf highsec". I'm on team "shut the **** up about how bad you think you have it in high sec".

I haven't seen anyone say "But it's not fair".

In high security, the current game mechanics pertaining to Risk v Reward is unbalanced and heavily skewed to favor Mission Invasion Thief's and Suicide Gankers.

That's a fact.


DMC



Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#220 - 2014-02-06 15:15:18 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
you do realise we are playing eve and not wow right? I think you are playing the wrong game here. as cliche as it may sound I really do think you should go try wow, or maybe hello kitty online. the way you are describing things I think that those games will be more your speed/style.

I mean im sure there is nothing wrong with you as a person but it just seems like eve is too rough and tumble type of game. again im not saying you are a girl at all, or even that being a girl in itself is wrong (i love girls, even girls love girls) just that you are more girly in the traditional sense. theres nothing technically wrong with not having any balls either, figuratively speaking that is, just that you have to realize that you dont have any so you can move on to something where you will be more comfortable with your ball-less-ness. this will have the benifit of us not having to hear you cry like the little girl you are every time a pirate gets your panties into a twist.

I can only assume you are still in 6th grade or thereabouts; someone doesn't want to play with you on your terms and your go-to comment is 'You're such a Girl'. Not really saying much about me but speaks volumes about you. But I'll work with you anyways.

Currently there are several way to initiate PVP in High sec, duels, looting, shooting an anchored mobile structure or a War Declaration to name a few. But the preferred method nowadays seems to be, Bring 10 friends and Gank em. Since there is no defence, and little recourse for the victim it has become the end all be all of Greifing.

EVE-Online is becoming less and less about skills and preparation, and more about how many friends/alts do I need to screw with someone. Eve, the latest online bullies yard for the intellectually challenged, it's not your fault, some people get by just fine with a double digit IQ. I prepare for fights and engage in PVP as needed with the goal of defending what is mine not taking what belongs to others. I have no problem with someone wanting to play pirate, and many of my friends are quite successful at it, even they agree Ganking is not Pirate it's just 'Turret Banking'. CCP took 'Turret Mining' out of the game at the same time they removed Drone Ore, I guess it is time to take 'Turret Banking' out too.

This is why we can't have nice things, some pubescent will call it a 'Right' and then scream till he gets his bottle if you try to take it away.

Concord should get paid, all loot goes the rescuing force. Works for every Sec of space, Low sec it goes the winning force, Nul sec it goes to the winning force, High sec it should go to Concord.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.