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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Divide and Conquer
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Aavahelukka
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-02-05 07:13:00 UTC
I wish there were (more) ways to Break an Opposing Fleet apart. Say your fleet was 10-25 in size and your opponent is 50+ in size, that there were reliable means to ensure that your fleets sizes in actual encounter would still somehow compare. For instance a mechanism to block traffic through jump gates, which you could then utilize as means to break your opposing fleets into two smaller fleets in two different systems, temporarily unable to work as a whole.

Size, and especially Overkill, always mattered in Warfare. But so did attempts to break enemy frontiers into Manageable Pieces. EVE doesnt haz this...
Gh0stBust3rs
Templars HIghsec
Stellar Fusion
#2 - 2014-02-05 08:58:19 UTC
You can always try to split a fleet on a gate. Get most of them to aggress on one side jump through kill the idiots and bounce back and forth. Whittle them down to your level before a straight up engagement.
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3 - 2014-02-05 10:10:03 UTC
Sure eve has this, you just don't know how ;)
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#4 - 2014-02-05 20:12:05 UTC
there is lot of different ways to split people, it is just up to you how you want to do it.

You are just asking that CCP should play it for you.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#5 - 2014-02-05 20:54:58 UTC
You can already do that. Its called nano.

You warp in at range, enemy begins to burn out after you. They create a conga line, with the fastest ships at the front. Suddenly your nano gang (of 10/20 or so) is only fighting a handful of thier fleet at a time. Because all of the slower ships are far, far out of range to really do anything at that point. Once you kill those ships, move in close to the main body- rinse and repeat.

GG
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-02-05 20:56:46 UTC
Chessur wrote:
You can already do that. Its called nano.

You warp in at range, enemy begins to burn out after you. They create a conga line, with the fastest ships at the front. Suddenly your nano gang (of 10/20 or so) is only fighting a handful of thier fleet at a time. Because all of the slower ships are far, far out of range to really do anything at that point. Once you kill those ships, move in close to the main body- rinse and repeat.

GG


^ This works even better in deadspace, such as FW plexes, where you cannot warp to anything on grid.

.
Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#7 - 2014-02-05 21:05:29 UTC
it doesn't matter how many more methods there are to split up a fleet, a good FC will still know the mechanics well enough to not fall victim to lame tricks that will obviously result in leaving chunks of the fleet off grid. hence the popularity of high-volley skirmish gangs, where it doesn't matter who is on grid as long as there is enough volley damage present to breeze through buffer tanks before logi can respond.
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#8 - 2014-02-06 03:12:04 UTC
Plato Forko wrote:
it doesn't matter how many more methods there are to split up a fleet, a good FC will still know the mechanics well enough to not fall victim to lame tricks that will obviously result in leaving chunks of the fleet off grid. hence the popularity of high-volley skirmish gangs, where it doesn't matter who is on grid as long as there is enough volley damage present to breeze through buffer tanks before logi can respond.





Wow it's almost like a superior force with superior numbers will win every time, just as it should be
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#9 - 2014-02-06 04:04:00 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
Plato Forko wrote:
it doesn't matter how many more methods there are to split up a fleet, a good FC will still know the mechanics well enough to not fall victim to lame tricks that will obviously result in leaving chunks of the fleet off grid. hence the popularity of high-volley skirmish gangs, where it doesn't matter who is on grid as long as there is enough volley damage present to breeze through buffer tanks before logi can respond.





Wow it's almost like a superior force with superior numbers will win every time, just as it should be



But - a superior force with less numbers will win because it is superior.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Aavahelukka
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-02-06 08:42:35 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
You are just asking that CCP should play it for you.


With all the ways CCP been busy to improve the game as of lately with the introduction of Skirmish Mods I think this is a fair initiative/direction too.

Loraine Gess wrote:
Wow it's almost like a superior force with superior numbers will win every time, just as it should be


If we look at human history we have more examples on 'Skirmish' Warfare being Superior to 'Superior Numbers' Warfare.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#11 - 2014-02-06 19:01:42 UTC
Aavahelukka wrote:
If we look at human history we have more examples on 'Skirmish' Warfare being Superior to 'Superior Numbers' Warfare.
Only when the superior force is full of F1 monkeys and the skirmish guys are competent. RL imitates Eve!
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#12 - 2014-02-07 11:25:15 UTC
Ka'Narlist wrote:
Sure eve has this, you just don't know how ;)

Yep. Test Alliance is expert at whittling down the numbers. :)

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#13 - 2014-02-07 19:40:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Noxisia Arkana
Unless they are in frigates, hitting a large fleet with one or two flights of bombers can be incredibly disruptive. So there is a mechanic for that.

Plus it feels incredible saying 'bombs away' on comms.

Edit: Unfortunately only available in whs and null, I kinda forgot you were going for lowsec... my bad.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#14 - 2014-02-07 19:52:54 UTC
90% of all Eve players are F1 monkeys.

*roll face on keyboard*
*win Eve*

X Gallentius wrote:
Only when the superior force is full of F1 monkeys


nom nom
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#15 - 2014-02-07 20:19:28 UTC
I heard the Persians were experts at blob warfare.
Princess Nexxala wrote:
90% of all Eve players are F1 monkeys.
X Gallentius wrote:
Only when the superior force is full of F1 monkeys

Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#16 - 2014-02-07 20:45:26 UTC
Aavahelukka wrote:

Size, and especially Overkill, always mattered in Warfare. But so did attempts to break enemy frontiers into Manageable Pieces. EVE doesnt haz this...


It does actually. Bubbles, and the spawn location when jumping into a system do a great job of this. You can also split gangs apart if they chase you and send their faster ships ahead. Solo ceptors can often engage gatecamps by provoking their fast tackle to chase them out of range of their heavier ships, often scoring several kills consecutively in one engagement.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-02-08 17:57:56 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
I heard the Persians were experts at blob warfare.
Princess Nexxala wrote:
90% of all Eve players are F1 monkeys.
X Gallentius wrote:
Only when the superior force is full of F1 monkeys



Persia: Call the blob.
Xerxes: F1, F1, F1!!!!
Leonidas: Split them at the gates!
Themistocles: Bomber Run!
Pausanias: Kite them!
Greece: Loot the field.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Taoist Dragon
School of Applied Knowledge
#18 - 2014-02-08 23:17:20 UTC
Aavahelukka wrote:

If we look at human history we have more examples on 'Skirmish' Warfare being Superior to 'Superior Numbers' Warfare.


This only works because the larger force FC falls into the same traps as described by chessur. There are plenty of tactics to defend against skirmishers as long as you hold discipline and follow them. The tactics described by chessur work because people don't have the discipline and go chase!

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#19 - 2014-02-10 03:16:13 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Aavahelukka wrote:

If we look at human history we have more examples on 'Skirmish' Warfare being Superior to 'Superior Numbers' Warfare.


This only works because the larger force FC falls into the same traps as described by chessur. There are plenty of tactics to defend against skirmishers as long as you hold discipline and follow them. The tactics described by chessur work because people don't have the discipline and go chase!


Not if the kiting ships have better damage projection than your fleet.

If that is the case (Say the kiting fleet is using pulse shield oracels) then they are going to sit at 40ish K and slap 800+ DPS per oracle onto a ship of their choosing. They can long point you easy from that range. So you have five options.

1. Sit there and die
2. Burn after them an die
3. Concede the field to a vastly numerically inferior force
4. Have better damage projection (IE pulse shield oracles) anything using long range BS guns will never track a nano ships
5. Have enough logi (2/3 per oracle) to just sit and rep through their damage on larger targets. Howver you will still lose frigs / dessies / cruisers from the raw DPS and not enough EHP.

Most FC's are prideful, RPing, asshats, and will never pick 3. Their space honor would never recover from a blow of that magnitude. Option 4 really doesn't exist, because the shield oracle is not flown by may pilots, because 99% of eve is **** and would die in a horrible fire when flying one. Option 5 is what i come across the most on my travels. Most people in eve do not fight me unless they have a logi / recon to my pilot ratio of 1:1. So if i come with 5 pilots, they have a fleet + 5 logi / recons Its really great fun.

Welcome to fighting the subhuman IQ blob that is eve.
Taoist Dragon
School of Applied Knowledge
#20 - 2014-02-10 05:26:42 UTC
Chessur wrote:
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Aavahelukka wrote:

If we look at human history we have more examples on 'Skirmish' Warfare being Superior to 'Superior Numbers' Warfare.


This only works because the larger force FC falls into the same traps as described by chessur. There are plenty of tactics to defend against skirmishers as long as you hold discipline and follow them. The tactics described by chessur work because people don't have the discipline and go chase!


Not if the kiting ships have better damage projection than your fleet.

If that is the case (Say the kiting fleet is using pulse shield oracels) then they are going to sit at 40ish K and slap 800+ DPS per oracle onto a ship of their choosing. They can long point you easy from that range. So you have five options.

1. Sit there and die
2. Burn after them an die
3. Concede the field to a vastly numerically inferior force
4. Have better damage projection (IE pulse shield oracles) anything using long range BS guns will never track a nano ships
5. Have enough logi (2/3 per oracle) to just sit and rep through their damage on larger targets. Howver you will still lose frigs / dessies / cruisers from the raw DPS and not enough EHP.

Most FC's are prideful, RPing, asshats, and will never pick 3. Their space honor would never recover from a blow of that magnitude. Option 4 really doesn't exist, because the shield oracle is not flown by may pilots, because 99% of eve is **** and would die in a horrible fire when flying one. Option 5 is what i come across the most on my travels. Most people in eve do not fight me unless they have a logi / recon to my pilot ratio of 1:1. So if i come with 5 pilots, they have a fleet + 5 logi / recons Its really great fun.

Welcome to fighting the subhuman IQ blob that is eve.


Very much true mate which is playing into your hands perfectly.

One thing that a 'blob' can try is pick some heroes to try and burn out to the kiters (i.e. get split up and die) while the kiters kill these heroes the rest of the blob bugs out. But yeah the epeen waving,RP'ing asshats generally take over then and just get the rest of the fleet killed.

Good job I'm with a decent bunch now or I would virtually never fleet up and just go solo. (true solo that is!)

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
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