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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Just lost my first ship. Absolutely enraged.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#61 - 2014-02-05 00:06:36 UTC
I would suggest that further posts on this thread will only serve to feed the trolls.

It's sad to see so many veteran player whose only approach to new players is to spout bitter and snide remarks. I consider my response to be blunt to the point of being rude, most of you others are only here to kick a player while they're down.

Good show, old chap /golfclap

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Dkeh Weis
Digital Innovations
#62 - 2014-02-05 00:06:47 UTC
Sevastian Liao wrote:

You - Like any dozens other newbies in any dozens of other games - Make the very typical claim that "Pompous tools" are the problem when the real issue at hand is that you expect massaging of your bruised ego to be packaged along with the advice that olders players are already giving. Despite coming in with one of the more antagonistic OPs I've seen in the ENCQA I've seen for a while. Being overly willing to bend over backwards to "be nice" to rude new players contributes to the growing sense of entitlement hereabouts, so I'll just come out and say that I'm grateful to those who choose to modify how friendly their advice is to suit the personality of the OP. No, you're not entitled to careful handling of your fragile ego with such a tone.


Well said.

Eve will make you work a solid month all on your own for your first cookie. Then kick you in the nuts and take that cookie, and laugh at you for thinking you could have a cookie at all.
Miriya Zakalwe
World Wide Welp
#63 - 2014-02-05 00:12:56 UTC
Nice guy!

All I know is I want to be in local when he meets CODE.

OP, seriously, you have about 20 people here telling you to suck it up and move on. What happened to you is such a ridiculously minor loss compared to what will happen later, if it is really raising your ire, you should either take a step back and adjust how you look at things or simply leave the game.

People aren't telling you this because they are elitist or want to point out that you're wrong.

People are telling you this because you're starting down a bad path in a very, very common way that they have seen dozens of times.

They say HTFU for a reason. This is a game where people will deliberately mess with you for fun, and that's a valid way to play the game. In certain ways it's the *core* of the game. When it comes to butthurt, you haven't even seen the tip of the iceberg yet. You need to be able to laugh it off. If losing ships to things you misunderstood or didn't expect is going to make you angry, then this is definitely not the game for you.

For scale, I've been playing almost three months. I have lost 89 ships for a combined total of 1.05 billion ISK. Every single one of those were my fault, just like your loss was your fault. The difference is I enjoyed them all and learned from most of them (though clearly not enough yet, lol.)

You need to be able to laugh these off or you're going to hate this game.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#64 - 2014-02-05 00:30:35 UTC
Sevastian Liao wrote:
Vozlov Krovik wrote:
Sorry I've been flying around trying to get parts for my new ship at the right prices. Has taken me an hour, I haven't actually put any input into the game other than fitting things to my ship, setting a new destination, undocking and then setting it on autopilot. In the mean time I watched some TV, ate some food, tidied the house and had a shower. Great game.

You haven't pointed out at all why the tutorials aren't terrible. You've merely blasted me for not picking up on one sentence that contradicted literally everything else in the mission briefing. And no, it doesn't teach you anything, other than getting killed sucks, or that running away is sometimes part of missions. Great tutorial.

I've told you what I learnt, you're simply too dense to listen or too ignorant to actually read my responses. Also, I didn't tell everyone to 'eat their own hats', just the pompous tools who got all butthurt that I criticised their game, endlessly talking down to me in the most pathetic manner. I actually thanked the people who warranted it, but again, you're clearly too ignorant to read my responses, or too dense to actually understand them.

Later all, signing off!


Your only justification why the tutorial is "terrible" is because *you* didn't read the instructions carefully enough because *you* believe that 8 words was too short to be meaningful for new players in general because *you* think that's the case. Despite the majority of other players getting past that particular mission without problems. You're claiming the tutorial is weak based on your own failings, and then projecting those failings to other players and claiming overall failure on the part of the tutorial. Eight words is not too short for meaningful conveyance of information. The problem here is that you chose not to read it. Put simply, all your rants revolve around the opinion that *your* experiences and *your* requirements (Short attention span) set the standard for quality gameplay. Now you're making snarky comments about the game in general because of the autopilot system - something you're not being forced to use. There's no need to justify how the tutorial isn't terrible when you're the one making the accusation that it is based on flimsy rationalizations. So yes, you are being pretentious.

You - Like any dozens other newbies in any dozens of other games - Make the very typical claim that "Pompous tools" are the problem when the real issue at hand is that you expect massaging of your bruised ego to be packaged along with the advice that older players are already giving. Despite coming in with one of the more antagonistic OPs I've seen in the ENCQA for a while. Being overly willing to bend over backwards to "be nice" to rude new players contributes to the growing sense of entitlement hereabouts, so I'll just come out and say that I'm grateful to those who choose to modify how friendly their advice is to suit the personality of the OP. No, you're not entitled to careful handling of your fragile ego with such a tone.

The player community overwhelmingly helps out new players with friendly advice on a daily basis - provided they're willing to take responsibility for their own actions. You're free to check out any of the other threads started by other new players as proof.


Could not have said it better.

Really, it's true, my wordings would have been so hostile that CCP had to intervene.

So will just say, THIS.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Roel Yento
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2014-02-05 00:35:02 UTC
OP isn't looking for advice, he is looking for people to agree with his gripes. Anyone that does not agree with him he insults. People like this can't be helped because they can't take responsibility for their actions.

He chose to take the mission, not read it carefully, not research the mission, and to fly something he wasn't willing to lose. Could the tutorials be better? Yes. Does the game need improvement? Yes. When someone points out you are complaining or made poor choices does that mean they are doing you a disservice? No.

Insulting those that give you advice isn't a productive way to act. You are not required to do anything in game, everything is choice and consequence. If there is nothing about the gameplay you like or makes you want to stay then leave. There is nothing wrong with leaving. We stay because we found something in this game we like. You should find a game, that is actually out, that you like and enjoy yourself if this one isn't for you.
Michael Ruckert
Hohere Kavallerie-Kommando
#66 - 2014-02-05 00:41:25 UTC
Message to OP: HTFU

"No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#67 - 2014-02-05 00:42:38 UTC
In the small case that the OP hasn't rage quitted EVE yet.

Want to know CCP's official statement about these types of things, follow this link

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2014-02-05 01:00:23 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Post 43 by Mara is 200% correct. The tutorials DO war you. If you only read that freaking colored text that shows up in local chat, which you are obviously in.

Claiming you didnt get any warning and negate GOOD and ACCURATE advice makes me want to ask this question.
Well, he could have hidden local chat. Nowhere does the game ever state that you should leave it open as you occasionally get useful information in it. In other games one can safely hide the chat window, as messages pop up in the middle of the screen. But EVE isn't other games. (And then, you don't hide local in EVE, as you always want to check the list of players for people who might want to kill you -- or whom you want to kill.)

But the OP's attitude is totally unacceptable. Blaming the game for his own mistakes won't get him far. Blaming helpful people that want to teach him how to learn from said mistakes even less.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#69 - 2014-02-05 01:06:51 UTC
Thomas Builder wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Post 43 by Mara is 200% correct. The tutorials DO war you. If you only read that freaking colored text that shows up in local chat, which you are obviously in.

Claiming you didnt get any warning and negate GOOD and ACCURATE advice makes me want to ask this question.
Well, he could have hidden local chat. Nowhere does the game ever state that you should leave it open as you occasionally get useful information in it. In other games one can safely hide the chat window, as messages pop up in the middle of the screen. But EVE isn't other games. (And then, you don't hide local in EVE, as you always want to check the list of players for people who might want to kill you -- or whom you want to kill.)

But the OP's attitude is totally unacceptable. Blaming the game for his own mistakes won't get him far. Blaming helpful people that want to teach him how to learn from said mistakes even less.


True.

Still doesn't change the fact that he DID get the warnings, as he claimed he never received them.

That you don't see the warnings, that's another case. I've did stupid things too by not reading certain things...but unlike the OP, I only blame myself and laugh about how stupid I acted those times, like the time I destroyed a 1bil implant clone because I forgot it was in same station as I was and I jumpcloned out. I was upset about it...for 30 seconds, then opened market and rebought the implants for the new jumpclone I had to create. After that, I shared the experience on TS3 with my corpies and we all laughed.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#70 - 2014-02-05 01:50:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
I don't think he realises just how nice people have been to him, if he'd have posted this in GD they'd have eaten him alive.

OP people aren't lying to you about the content of the tutorials or why you lost your ship, in New Citizens Q&A we're expressly forbidden to troll you, and mods quickly stomp on anyone doing so, they'll comment on any bad advice as well.

If you refuse to use resources such as Eve Survival you're going to lose a lot more ships, Lv1 1-3 increase in difficulty progressively, the change from level 3 to 4 is like walking into a brick wall, you will lose ships. You hop into wormholes and you'll lose even more. Ship loss is a fact of life, it also drives the whole Eve economy.

It's frustrating losing a ship, we've all been there. They get more expensive too, I'm down a T2 fit BC in the last month or so because I was blase about a lvl 4 (yeah I know P) that was new to me and didn't bother checking Eve Survival, thankfully the loot fairy didn't rob me blind for a change Big smile.

If you accept that every ship wants to explode and is a disposable tool, and that your job is to try and stop the explosion, you won't be so frustrated, if you can't accept it, leave now before you end up hating it.

Eve isn't like other games it doesn't give you cookies, it will however steal them. It doesn't hold your hand either, if it did, it'd be trying to nick your watch.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#71 - 2014-02-05 02:11:42 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I don't think he realises just how nice people have been to him, if he'd have posted this in GD they'd have eaten him alive.

OP people aren't lying to you about the content of the tutorials or why you lost your ship, in New Citizens Q&A we're expressly forbidden to troll you, and mods quickly stomp on anyone doing so, they'll comment on any bad advice as well.

If you refuse to use resources such as Eve Survival you're going get even more frustrated, Lv1 1-3 increase in difficulty progressively, the change from level 3 to 4 is like walking into a brick wall, you will lose ships. You hop into wormholes and you'll lose even more. Ship loss is a fact of life, it also drives the whole Eve economy.

It's frustrating losing a ship, we've all been there. They get more expensive too, I'm down a T2 fit BC in the last month or so because I was blase about a lvl 4 (yeah I know, I'm terrible at Eve P) that was new to me and didn't bother checking Eve Survival, thankfully the loot fairy didn't rob me blind for a change Big smile.

If you accept that every ship is already exploded when you buy it and is a disposable tool, and that your job is to try to delay the explosion, you won't be so frustrated, if you can't accept it, leave now before you end up hating it.

Eve isn't like other games it doesn't give you cookies, it will however steal them. It doesn't hold your hand either, if it did, it'd be trying to nick your watch.


Fixed it for you.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
111kartel111
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#72 - 2014-02-05 02:56:45 UTC
Welcome to eve :) .

Seriously though just take a step back and learn from the experience and do some more tutorials you'll get better ships the farther you progressed AND hopefully you'll learn from it all. And remember these two rules : 1 NEVER trust anyone. 2 NEVER fly anything you can't afford to loose .

Fly safe.
Kayla Brandewyn
The Sacrifice.
For Better Crops Next Year
#73 - 2014-02-05 04:57:30 UTC
I lost my best (at that point) fits when I tried to plant the bomb not knowing my ship IS the bomb during rookie tutorials. And that's purely a rookie mistake which I'm sure CCP are well-aware yet they won't do anything. Why? Purpose being wanting us to learn how to READ the mission and also to experience losing a ship. It basically sifts out the "dedicated" players and the "not-so-dedicated" ones. If you get so upset so early in the game losing a ship that cost almost nothing, I honestly feel you should reflect on whether this game is suitable for you.

I had my ship blown up not in missions. but by an actual pilot who feels getting a newbie's kill-mail is the coolest thing. But hey. no hard feelings. It's just a game!

Two ways I could have reacted: 1) Be BITTER. 2) Get BETTER.

I chose the second. I'm sure you have already gotten the reaction you wanted from fellow forum-pilots. Whether you genuinely needed a platform to let out your frustrations or you're just bored being a "keyboard-warrior", best of luck in the remaining time in this game. Hopefully you'll see a new perspective
Peto Kabukicho
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#74 - 2014-02-05 06:36:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Peto Kabukicho
Yeah, Team I think we need to stop feeding this guy, its obvious he doesn't want advice to help himself improve. However, To all, the new friends who have recently, subscribed, welcome, I think you will find the eve community to be on the most helpful and genuine communities any where out there. If you look through post, you'll find help for any of your question, from many veteran players who are more the happy to give you a helping hand. The key point is to just be respectful, and realize we have all been where you are at, and the advice we give is not coming from arrogance but experience.
Edrante Van'Oola
Doomheim
#75 - 2014-02-05 08:06:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Edrante Van'Oola
Funny thing with the mission he was on is it isn't that hard to destroy the attacking frigates.
hell, theres plenty of time to warp away after the smartbomb goes boom.

So a starter ship exploded, big deal, would be like me getting mad over an ammo transport i had detonate because i was stupid enough to jump without scouting the gate first :) , props to the killers for getting to the cloaked transport before I could align it.

Edit: here it is: https://zkillboard.com/detail/36200556/

Just shake off the loss , jeez if you're losing it over a starter ship then i dread to see how you'll react if a T3 or Navy issue has a sudden explosion somewhere in the hull.
Ovv Topik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2014-02-05 09:32:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ovv Topik
Mara Rinn wrote:
I would suggest that further posts on this thread will only serve to feed the trolls.

It's sad to see so many veteran player whose only approach to new players is to spout bitter and snide remarks. I consider my response to be blunt to the point of being rude, most of you others are only here to kick a player while they're down.

Good show, old chap /golfclap

Whilst I respect your opinion Mara, I do not share it.

How would a crybaby like that ever survive outside his rookie system or heaven forbid a post in GD if we all just flanneled him and said :

"Yes, the tutorials are wrong. Thank goodness you've come along and spotted what the other 500,000 of us, and 10 years of CCP development missed! Now we can fix the tutorials and start holding new players hands and giving them cookies before EVE dies."

"HTFU". - CCP's words, not ours.

He lost a free Frig the tutorial had given him due to triple tanking, and comes crying to the forum demanding the game be fixed! And when it is pointed out to him he missed the point, he cries harder.

Check out post #23 Mara. Another new player been through worse than out OP, and the dude get 14 likes from us for showing the right attitude.

If the OP wants to see EVE for what it is and not say "EVE should change!", he'll be welcome back here any time with the full support of the vets.

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

Serafiel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2014-02-05 10:10:51 UTC
Dkeh Weis wrote:
Vozlov Krovik wrote:
So I've been playing the game, and I've been enjoying it for the most part. The user interface is probably one of the most cluster****ed and downright unintuitive I've ever used, and the fact I have to constantly use google screams the developers really didn't put much thought into accessibility for new players, but I digress.

I've been mining whilst doing the tutorial missions, and have a nice few ships I've been getting to know and getting fitted appropriately.

Then I try a mission where I have to escort a ship of civilians. I go there, they are all dead and out of nowhere a group of enemies start pounding the crap out of me. Ok, I guess I've got to destroy them.

No. My capacitor runs out in seconds trying to repair my shields and hull whilst I scramble trying to figure out why my weapon systems aren't doing anything. Oh, because I have absolutely no chance of destroying these things at all. I'm in a tutorial mission and I'm being attacked by things I have absolutely no chance against. The one line in the mission briefing that alluded to this was...

'If anything seems amiss report back to station'

8 words out of 100 that hint at what the mission is going to go like. When I realised I was in an unwinnable situation I attempted to warp back to my station, getting destroyed in the painfully slow process of warming up my warp engines.

Needless to say I was pissed. A tutorial mission that pits you against people you have no chance of beating. The entire mission consisted of going to a place, and then running away from it. WTF kind of tutorial is that?

So now I'm down my best ship, best modifications and my best weapons and all my ammo. All because of a terrible tutorial
mission. Needless to say It's somewhat taken a large chunk out of my interest in the game.

I have nearly 5 million credits, but I'll be spending most of that trying to refit a new ship, so I've literally just wasted the first few days of my trial. TBH I just can't be bothered trying to earn that kinda stuff back at this early stage, so I think I'm out.

/rant.


If you get that buttmad over a tutorial mission ship loss worth a couple million ISK, its probably a good thing that you take a breather. I wouldn't want you to have a heart attack when you lose an 80 billion ISK titan by jumping instead of bridging.


My thoughts exactly. I was gonna write HTFU, but as this is newbie forum, ill just leave this:

@OP: this is EVE, if you cant handle even a tutorial...reconsider playing. This game will not change for you, no matter how much rage. Just think about any lost ships being as much expendable as ammunition. Works wonders.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#78 - 2014-02-05 10:20:57 UTC
Actually, there's a fairly good chance people will be keeping an eye on him and derp him the second he flies something that took some newbie effort to acquire Twisted


Welcome to EVE, enjoy your stay.
Hanz Riemannder
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2014-02-05 10:22:36 UTC
Tbh, a lot of you guys really need to take a step back and realise that playing the game for so many years has made you very very biased.

As a new player, coming into EVE right now, 7 or 8 years after release (dunno if thats correct), is hard. And if you're not used to sandbox games, it is even harder.

Quoting HTFU and all that isn't really helpfull.

Quote:
“One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it’s quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one ‘acting out’ in various ways.
So, in short: the internet.”

Tales of a newb pirate in New Eden
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#80 - 2014-02-05 10:27:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Hanz Riemannder wrote:
Tbh, a lot of you guys really need to take a step back and realise that playing the game for so many years has made you very very biased.

As a new player, coming into EVE right now, 7 or 8 years after release (dunno if thats correct), is hard. And if you're not used to sandbox games, it is even harder.

Quoting HTFU and all that isn't really helpfull.

Quote:
“One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it’s quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one ‘acting out’ in various ways.
So, in short: the internet.”



You have no idea how much easier it is these days, and that's an unbiased statement btw. No more learning skills, no more attribute issues and irrevocable choices you made but weren't aware of, actually a decent NPE/tutorial, skill queue. the list goes on and on.

But that's not why we react the way we do because normally we're helpful and constructive, we react like this because the OP is obviously whining/baiting/being a non-effort clown. We all went through this stage, many people daily go through this stage, some of them ask questions on the forum about it. But this guy decided to start whining and as such he gets exactly what he deserves.