EVE General Discussion

How is it that you keep making the leap from comparing two isolated activities to "highsec has more reward than nullsec"

These are not the only income sources.

Risk versus reward is not compared in isolation to only one activity in each area.

You go ahead and keep trying to make that connection though. We will just pretend all the other income sources don't exist. Sounds like a real solid argument there.

You won't like where that leads, if you want to go there.

The vast majority of market transactions are exclusively in highsec.

You're missing the point entirely. Not only is it "safer" to make isk in highsec, you can make more doing so. This makes absolutely no sense if you take into consideration risk/reward.

Activities in Eve are not isolated. You're beginning to make no sense the more I read from your post.

Seems to me he or she understands you very well.

So while the PI cooks, should a NullSec line member run anoms for 70m/hr in flat bounties OR blitz level 4 missions for Mission Rewards, Time Bonus rewards, Bounties, and LP (which for SOE is valued at 2,301 ISK/LP)?

The argument being made here is not "nerf HIghSec just because..." It's "We can't buff NullSec because of faucet but in order to put it in line with Risk : Reward, something's gotta give".

Personally, I think any mechanic that puts more LP in Null is ideal. If 69% of highsec PVE income from mission running is LP, that is where the balance needs to come from. At least in my opinion...

LOL. One idea I had thought of was to have an LP store in Sov Stations. You could turn in LP for a Goon Issue Rifter, Goon Issue Drake, Goon Issue Tempest, etc. Each SOV holder would be able to select 3-4 ships hulls of differing size and throw their logo on it. I'll bet you could sell a Goon Issue RIfter in Jita for a nice chunk of ISK.

Like I said before, it's like saying homeless folks aren't actually homeless because some dude in the same city make 10 mil a year and owns a mansion.

They (high sec) need to do that (derail), beause they know they lose on the merits. The rest of us understand perfectly that this part of the discussion is about combat pve as a means of individual income and the imbalances caused by CCPs piecemenal development practices (such as adding wormholes and changing exploration to be easier while not adjusting SOE LP to be more expensive, causing SOE exploration gear to be so valuable that the new ships just made them MORE valuable).

If we somehow magically have to include PI and moon goo to the null sec equation, then station trading (ie the single most profitable endeavor in all EVE Online and one that occurs overwhelmingly in high sec) must be added to the high sec side. You don't see them saying that because they are fundementally incapable of telling the truth about something as inconcequential as a video game's risk/reward balance.

Personally, I don't really care about the language being used.

My ideal solution to this would be just that, a nerf to highsec in general. I don't expect them to like it, but I do expect them to be adults about it. Which is definitely asking too much, I know.



This is the big question.

If LP generation itself is nerfed, it will merely increase the value of the items involved, and thus the LP will retain a similar value as before.

You can't go after the rewards themselves easily, and the isk itself is a small percentage.

So you have to attack the activity itself. Pun intended.

You know, this thread gets more hysterical every day.

Let' assume for a second that the lies being told by the null sec propagandists are true, and high sec makes vastly more per hour that null sec, and null sec needs high sec alts to finance the multi-trillion ISK losses of 100 billion ISK ships in null sec systems over null sec stations.

Maybe CCP WANTS to force all these destitute null sec players worth hundreds of billions to KEEP their high sec alts.
Otherwise, all those null sec players will just finance their trillion ISK battles with null sec chars, and CCP loses tens of thousands of subs.

Because, clearly, if someone new to Eve read this thread, they would quickly realize that every null sec player paid for their hundred billion ISK ship through high sec mission running, not by running anoms in null, and those high sec alts would be quickly unsubbed if poor poor null sec even gained parity with rich fat high sec, let alone was better.

Yeah null sec, keep spinning your lies.

I don't expect any such thing, but it would be nice to meet ONE honest high sec player who could see past their own narrow interests for the 5 seconds needed to recognise that the imbalance (which all of them deny) exists and that it's existance hurts the game (not just "null sec").

To much to ask for I know, but still lol.



I'm going to try to say (type?) this nicely because at least you seem like you want to know the truth. But the fact is you don't know enough about the subject matter to have an opinon, as i've explained to you before. Have you ever even done a single anomaly, DED plex, been in an incursion fleet or done a lvl 5 mission?

If you had you'd know that LP in and of itself is not the problem. Null sec missions give LP and no other single activity in EVE spews LP like lvl 5 missions, yet null missions are the provience of only a few and lvl 5s are mostly not done at all. High Sec incursions give most of the reward in raw isk like anomalies. The most profitable combat PVe (high end wormhole farming with fleets that inculde capital ships) has nothing to do with LP at all.

The real problem is the combination of:

-safety in high sec (CONCORD + crime watch) Which allows for the use of high end PVE fits for ships (even a cheap fit machariel in high sec lvl 4s is more profitable than almost any ship that would be doing low or null sec lvl 4s, for example).

-The ability to blitz missions (you can't "blitz" any other content except for a small selection of DED content like the 10/10 plex called "the Maze" and NPC's switching targets now pretty much ended that).

-CCp devlioping the game without a "wholistic" view or even understanding of PVE as income generation. I remain shocked at the revelation that the DEV who was leading the NPC AI change wasn't familiar with one of the most common null sec DED sites (that was admitted in the thread connected to the DEVBLOG announcing the NPC AI change). SOE having high sec agents was fine before wormholes and such, just like Thukker agents in high sec was ok before jump freighters. The Mining ship EHP buffs also made some industrial implants more valuable as some miners were no longer using hardwirings to toughen up their ships.

-CCP nerfing null sec . They started with the DED nerf (where msot of the Overseer Personal Effects rewards were deleted).

Then the upgrade system was a hugh buff but the made anomalies the centerpiece of the system which was a big bad mistake, the liquid isk from anoms ran the economy too hot leading to the 1st anom nerf, which lead to the EHP/isk "buff", which lead to 400 mil an hour titans and super carriers which contributed to the need to nerf both of those and eventually lead to the Forsaken Hub nerf which we thought was the final nail in the anomaly system till some genius thought up the ESS and it's accomanying 5% acros the board nerf lol).

Sorry if this is harsh but you just don't have enough experience. I advise listening rather than opining.





This is another thing we've been saying. It isn't about low skilled empire mission runners. The issue that I'm talking about only really expresses itsef ion the high end (which is why high sec isk alts exist). There is nothing wrong with the isk an average empire mission runner can or is making. The problem is people who actually know what they are doing, and for those people, it makes much more sense to be in high sec that to risk it outside of it (except for high end wormholes).

The fixes are to end incursion farming (ie, when the MOM pops up, all other sites despawn, the idea that people are prolonging something that should be ended as quickly as possibile is and has always been stupid and game breaking), end blitzing , increase the LP cost of virtue and nomand implants and SOE scanning gear, and change the way null anoms give rewards (from 100% isk to60% isk 40% 'convertable' LP like what incursioin runners have with CONCORD lp, that way anoms could be buffed without increasing the isk flood.

At least we are still on the topic of how so I can appreciate that.

Whoever said attacking the reward won't fix anything and instead its the activity is right. The market determines the reward for LP and the market is working fine according to CCP so focusing on the activity.

Removing blitzing is a good start it'd force an even better comparison between anomalies and missions because it would force killing everything. I think the next part would be adding more low bounty high EHP NPCs to missions because it would further slow them down while preserving the isk and LP ratio. It leaves the sink and faucet untouched but decreases the total isk/hr because it takes more time to complete the mission. Lets ignore "how much to do these things," because that requires more data than we'll have access to.