These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Skill Discussions

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Question About Missing Prerequisite Skills
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
The Ninja KiiD
Akavhi Guard
Fraternity.
#1 - 2014-01-21 22:16:26 UTC
I purchased this toon from the character bazaar yesterday and I noticed some odd things.

He is able to fly a tengu but does not have Destroyer level 3!? Also still has 8 days left to Caldari Cruiser V!?

I sat him in a tengu to see what would happen and was given a warning that i would lose sp if killed in ship.
His clone holds 26 mil sp but this toon has like 25.5 mil sp.

Anybody know how this happened? Didn't think it was possible to fly a ship or train unles you have the prerequisites.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#2 - 2014-01-21 23:01:18 UTC
He doesn't have Caldari Destroyer because he trained Caldari Cruiser before the former was a prerequisite for the latter. He apparently had Caldari Cruiser 5 but lost it when he got podded at some point and needs to train it back up.

When you lose a T3, you lose SP from relevant subsystem skills -- so that's not related at all.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#3 - 2014-01-21 23:04:28 UTC
The Ninja KiiD wrote:
I purchased this toon from the character bazaar yesterday and I noticed some odd things.

He is able to fly a tengu but does not have Destroyer level 3!? Also still has 8 days left to Caldari Cruiser V!?

I sat him in a tengu to see what would happen and was given a warning that i would lose sp if killed in ship.
His clone holds 26 mil sp but this toon has like 25.5 mil sp.

Anybody know how this happened? Didn't think it was possible to fly a ship or train unles you have the prerequisites.


That is very strange.... although I can guess how it might have happened.

1.) The destroy skill "not at leve 3" is easy to explain. Last summer, CCP changed the destroy & BC skills. There used to be ONE destroyer skill and ONE battlecrusier skill, but CCP split these up into FOUR racial destroyer skills and Four racial battlecruiser skills. Furthermore, you didn't NEED the destroyer skill to train the cruiser skill. As such, a character that has Caldari Cruiser but doesn't have Caldari Destroyer simply trained Caldari Cruiser prior to this change in the skill system.

2.) I could be wrong, but I always thought that Caldari Cruiser V was the prereq for Caldari Strategic Cruiser (which you need to fly the Tengu). As such, that character probably had Caldari Cruiser V at some point in its history (you can browse your skill training history on your character sheet). It is also possible to lose skill points in this game. If he was podded when his clone grade didn't cover the number of skillpoints the character had, he would lose skillpoints. It is very possible to lose Caldari Cruiser V to such an incident.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#4 - 2014-01-22 00:40:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
For what it is worth:
Dev blog: The great ship skill change of summer 2013

Look at the Primary, Secondary, Tertiary, Quaternary, etc. skills, only the one at the top of each list (left-most) matters. If you have those skills, you can BOARD the ship.

If you want to INJECT a skill, you need ALL the prerequisites required by that skill.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#5 - 2014-01-22 03:15:45 UTC
When you buy it in the market, sometimes you get a little something extra.
Pre-injection has no known cure, BUT: it really has no bad effects other than a temporary sense of confusion.


The lost cruiser V may have some negative effects, on cruiser specific bonus's. Shouldn't affect the Tengu at all though.

The character only has 2 pod losses on Battle Clinic (almost a year apart), but your own loss history may show others.
Somewhere a clone didn't get re-insured.
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-01-22 20:16:53 UTC
It is not impossible to fly a ship or use an item that requires skills that are erased, have been penalized, and so on.

One thing you will find it affects more directly though is the skill learning.

For instance, you won't be able to learn a new skill that requires that level V until that the pre-requisite is fulfilled (again).

That's pretty much it.
When able to train medium turrets because you learned small to V which was a requirement, you can continue to be.

If you need to learn a second skill that requires a small turret V skill, and it's missing, it won't work.
It will ask you to learn V again as it's required.


Of course, there are programming quirks I don't about.
Of course, EVE or ccp can set it as a bonus, or hindrance depending on the situation.
Of course, it is hard for a player with no extended access to verify.
Of course, the program is designed like a game.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-01-23 06:32:05 UTC
Since others have already answered the question about missing prerequisite skills (yes, skill requirements got changed in the past and podding reset the character's cruiser skill), I'll focus on the second one:

The warning you got has nothing to do with your clone. It is a fact of life of tech 3 ships: if you die in one, you will lose one rank in one of the five racial subsystem skills. (I.e. if you die in a Tengu, you will lose one of the Caldari subsystem skills.) The skill you lose is random, and you lose one full rank of it.

You can avoid this skill loss by ejecting before your ship explodes. Since you don't die in a TIII ship, you will not lose any skills. Obviously this gives your enemies a chance to stop attacking and board your now unpiloted ship.
Jaed Gogiko
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-01-23 18:26:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaed Gogiko
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
...
You can avoid this skill loss by ejecting before your ship explodes. Since you don't die in a TIII ship, you will not lose any skills. Obviously this gives your enemies a chance to stop attacking and board your now unpiloted ship.
That only leaves you 2 minutes to self-destruct without warping...
Even if you eject before the self-destruct sequence is over, it won't avoid them to take over the ship which you left.

So, even the self-destruct is useless to avoid skill loss or ship boarding in space.

The only other solution is to park in the ship hold of an Orca or similar device.
And I don't know if that would negate the penalization effect.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#9 - 2014-01-23 20:24:48 UTC
Jaed Gogiko wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
...
You can avoid this skill loss by ejecting before your ship explodes. Since you don't die in a TIII ship, you will not lose any skills. Obviously this gives your enemies a chance to stop attacking and board your now unpiloted ship.
That only leaves you 2 minutes to self-destruct without warping...
Even if you eject before the self-destruct sequence is over, it won't avoid them to take over the ship which you left.

So, even the self-destruct is useless to avoid skill loss or ship boarding in space.

The only other solution is to park in the ship hold of an Orca or similar device.
And I don't know if that would negate the penalization effect.


What? You just eject. Time it right and the hull without your skills will implode straight away and/or no one notices in time to stop shooting before boom. Time it wrong and someone gets a free ship. Either way, no skill loss and you just go get another one.
Mister Tuggles
Heretic Army
Sedition.
#10 - 2014-02-03 00:02:19 UTC
I have a character with min cruiser 5 trained , but it doesn't show up since I don't have destroyer 3 trained... Hope it doesn't cause problems at some point.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#11 - 2014-02-03 01:23:07 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
You can avoid this skill loss by ejecting before your ship explodes. Since you don't die in a TIII ship, you will not lose any skills. Obviously this gives your enemies a chance to stop attacking and board your now unpiloted ship.

You can't eject with an active weapons flag (60 seconds) Roll
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-03-18 20:21:25 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
You can avoid this skill loss by ejecting before your ship explodes. Since you don't die in a TIII ship, you will not lose any skills. Obviously this gives your enemies a chance to stop attacking and board your now unpiloted ship.

You can't eject with an active weapons flag (60 seconds) Roll

Thanks for the info, I wondered why I couldn't eject before.